Railroad Australia TV Show

 
  jayjays Locomotive Driver

Dont forget the promo for this show saying apart from the lenght and 'Mass' weight, the train is worth '3 to 4 Million' !!!!1
A couple of engines and few container 'flats' are worth that without considering the freight in those containers.

8 kilometers long and 38,000 Tonnes would need more than a few handbrakes applied going down the Blue Mountains.
gordon_s1942
These facts are or indeed were correct for FMG iron ore trains in the Pilbara. The value, well not that any more but during boom times not that long ago, the dirt in these trains was indeed 4 million pure profit. If not more not 8km long, 2.8 km

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  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Well, not quite "pure profit". Fortescue is famously hocked up to its gills. So I reckon the majority of the proceeds would go to paying interest on that debt, with most of the rest used to pay back a small part of that debt.

The small time punters and superannuation funds that bought FMG shares haven't received much in the way of dividends.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
For those interested the Railroad Australia programme is now appearing in the advanced schedule and can be "booked" and series linked on Foxtel.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
From PRR's March 2016 Newsletter..........

[center]PRR on Discovery Channel Australia & NZ[/center]
[table][tr][td][table][tr][td][left][color=#593132][size=2][font=Georgia, Times, ][color=#593132][font=Georgia]We're very excited to announce that Pichi Richi Railway will be featured on an upcoming episode of Railroad Australia, which is screened on the Discovery Channel Australia & NZ. Head over to our [url=https://www.facebook.com/PichiRichiRailway/?fref=ts][color=#6dc6dd][u]Facebook[/u][/color][/url] page to watch a preview of the series.[/font][/color] [/font][/size][/color][/left]
[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Last episode of Railroad Alaska had a Train hauling a complete load of 'Sheet Rock' or Gypsom as we call it, was ONE mile long and the Cargo was worth US $7 or 8 Million Dollars.
I dont know if they stated the tonneage but I cant wait to see the Train that  Railroad Australia is advertising as being 8 Kilometres long, 36,000 tonnes and only worth $AU 3 to 4 Million???

Roll on March 10 on Discovery..........
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Dear all, The Discovery Channel recently completed filming a documentary titled Railroad Australia. The series consists of 8 episodes each containing 3 separate stories, SCT features in 4 of these.

The first episode will air tomorrow evening, Thursday 10th of March on Discovery (Foxtel) at 8:30pm AEST. The schedule for this and subsequent episodes is listed below.

Having viewed the unedited version of Railroad Australia the series provides a unique insight into some of the operational challenges our business faces on a daily basis.

Though at times sensationalised to build the suspense for the viewing audience, we are sure this series will provide you and your families with further insight into SCT Logistics and to the Australian rail industry in general.

We hope you enjoy this insightful program.
SCT
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Wondering how much effort on the part of SCT to assist with the filming?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Last episode of Railroad Alaska had a Train hauling a complete load of 'Sheet Rock' or Gypsom as we call it, was ONE mile long and the Cargo was worth US $7 or 8 Million Dollars.
I dont know if they stated the tonneage but I cant wait to see the Train that  Railroad Australia is advertising as being 8 Kilometres long, 36,000 tonnes and only worth $AU 3 to 4 Million???

Roll on March 10 on Discovery..........
gordon_s1942
A mile long train equals 1600 metres
1600 metres equals 80 x 20 metre wagons
Say 20 metre wagon carries 100 tonnes equals 80 x 100 = 8,000 tonnes nett
8,000 tonnes for $8,000,000 = gypsum at $1,000 per tonne.
To those who know about gypsum does this sound reasonable bearing in mind that at Mount Barker you can but gypsum for $87.00 per tonne.
More bloody crap or not?
Question
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Last episode of Railroad Alaska had a Train hauling a complete load of 'Sheet Rock' or Gypsom as we call it, was ONE mile long and the Cargo was worth US $7 or 8 Million Dollars.
I dont know if they stated the tonneage but I cant wait to see the Train that  Railroad Australia is advertising as being 8 Kilometres long, 36,000 tonnes and only worth $AU 3 to 4 Million???

Roll on March 10 on Discovery..........
A mile long train equals 1600 metres
1600 metres equals 80 x 20 metre wagons
Say 20 metre wagon carries 100 tonnes equals 80 x 100 = 8,000 tonnes nett
8,000 tonnes for $8,000,000 = gypsum at $1,000 per tonne.
To those who know about gypsum does this sound reasonable bearing in mind that at Mount Barker you can but gypsum for $87.00 per tonne.
More bloody crap or not?
Question
YM-Mundrabilla
As a comparison...........
Looking at one end product ---- Plasterboard or as the yanks call it .. Drywall
You can buy a 1.2m x 1.4m sheet of 10mm plasterboard for $12.70 at Bunnings (Retail price including GST)
This is 2.88sqm and the sheet weighs in at 16.4kgs so it is worth $0.774 per kg or $774.00 per Tonne
So your 8,000 Tonne train load is worth $6,192,000 if viewed as the value of one form of "end Product"

The gypsum price quoted above ($87.00/Tonne) is for gypsum as a soil additive
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Last episode of Railroad Alaska had a Train hauling a complete load of 'Sheet Rock' or Gypsom as we call it, was ONE mile long and the Cargo was worth US $7 or 8 Million Dollars.
I dont know if they stated the tonneage but I cant wait to see the Train that  Railroad Australia is advertising as being 8 Kilometres long, 36,000 tonnes and only worth $AU 3 to 4 Million???

Roll on March 10 on Discovery..........
A mile long train equals 1600 metres
1600 metres equals 80 x 20 metre wagons
Say 20 metre wagon carries 100 tonnes equals 80 x 100 = 8,000 tonnes nett
8,000 tonnes for $8,000,000 = gypsum at $1,000 per tonne.
To those who know about gypsum does this sound reasonable bearing in mind that at Mount Barker you can but gypsum for $87.00 per tonne.
More bloody crap or not?
Question
As a comparison...........
Looking at one end product ---- Plasterboard or as the yanks call it .. Drywall
You can buy a 1.2m x 1.4m sheet of 10mm plasterboard for $12.70 at Bunnings (Retail price including GST)
This is 2.88sqm and the sheet weighs in at 16.4kgs so it is worth $0.774 per kg or $774.00 per Tonne
So your 8,000 Tonne train load is worth $6,192,000 if viewed as the value of one form of "end Product"

The gypsum price quoted above ($87.00/Tonne) is for gypsum as a soil additive
Pressman
Fair enough Pressman.
I was using the loaded product as the value of the train load. Bit like iron ore at $50/tonne (whatever) rather than finished rolled/fabricated/manufactured steel products.
All a bit of stupidity so I will wait until tomorrow for the pearls of wisdom from the Australian show which in a former life on the job I wouldn't touch in a fit.
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

Last episode of Railroad Alaska had a Train hauling a complete load of 'Sheet Rock' or Gypsom as we call it, was ONE mile long and the Cargo was worth US $7 or 8 Million Dollars.
I dont know if they stated the tonneage but I cant wait to see the Train that  Railroad Australia is advertising as being 8 Kilometres long, 36,000 tonnes and only worth $AU 3 to 4 Million???

Roll on March 10 on Discovery..........
gordon_s1942
Sheetrock is a brand name in the US of what we know as Gyprock, not Gypsum, which is a bulk loose material used in the manufacture of, as it is variously known, drywall or plasterboard depending on which country you are in.

It is quite conceivable that the trains can be this long, as the train is virtually the only way to move heavy freight between Anchorage and Fairbanks.

1 mile is approximately 1600 metres, the Perth-Sydney-Perth freighters regularly are 1100 to 1300 metres long east of Parkes and longer west of there.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

1 mile is approximately 1600 metres, the Perth-Sydney-Perth freighters regularly are 1100 to 1300 metres long east of Parkes and longer west of there.
Throughwestmail
1800 metre is the max west of Parkes and across the Trans to Perth and to Darwin which is also Double Stack territory
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Loved the show tonight what did you guys think?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Pleasantly surprised.
Not nearly as bad as I expected when compared with many similar docos from the US and Britain.
The usual trials of running a railway but without the inane created crises evident in so many overseas productions.
So far so good.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
I was rather bemused by the part where that Freight (3MP9) was struggling to get traction in the Adelaide Hills as we had a short similar section between Wallerawang and the Marrangaroo Tunnel that caused more than one train to 'stick Up' on the rising grade.
Most times it happened after 7pm at night and when no trains ran the section for about 2 hours at least , that and it had either been raining or a frost was 'in the air', the probability of a train being stopped through loss of traction was high.
More than once I have see a Train 'show' on the Diagram for many minutes longer than it should have as it struggled to make the climb.

Of course there are many factors such as the load, number of Loco's and their motive power and the prevailing conditions at the time.

Because this section of line had proved to have a problem with Traction, there were specific instructions issued as to how to get the stalled Train moving out of that section.

Seeing this is a continuing problem in the Adelaide Hills based on the Drivers comments had me thinking that the mass and length of that Train was at its optimum for good normal conditions but in the sake of making as a much as possible, everything was being pushed to its extreme and when the conditions are less than favorable, problems occur.


I am curious about the numbering system as using number and letters was only just being introduced when I finished up.

So does 3MP9 equal 3 as in Victoria, M + Melbourne, P + Perth and 9 is the train number?


That show was the first time I had ever seen a 'Tippler' in action as I thought they had to uncouple the vehicles which would slow things down but instead the coupler 'Rotates'.............ingenious.
I'd still like to see which is the better and fastest, Bottom Drop or Tippling, and why one is chosen over the other
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

I am curious about the numbering system as using number and letters was only just being introduced when I finished up.

So does 3MP9 equal 3 as in Victoria, M + Melbourne, P + Perth and 9 is the train number?


That show was the first time I had ever seen a 'Tippler' in action as I thought they had to uncouple the vehicles which would slow things down but instead the coupler 'Rotates'.............ingenious.
I'd still like to see which is the better and fastest, Bottom Drop or Tippling, and why one is chosen over the other
gordon_s1942
The ARTC numbering system is explained in this pdf http://www.artc.com.au/library/Train_Numbering.pdf

Basically the first number is day of departure (1=Sunday - 7=Saturday)
First letter is Departure location, second letter is destination
Fourth digit is described by ARTC as a departure sequence for a particular day, however it appears to now indicate the operator.
it seems all SCT train have the 4th digit as 9
(as a note the digit 8 denotes a passenger train)
So your example of 3MP9 would indicate Departing on a Tuesday (3) from Melbourne (M), to Perth (P) and operated by SCT (9)

Rotary Tippler v Bottom discharge -
It all comes down to total cost
Bottom Discharge wagons require multiple sets of doors on the bottom to enable discharging.
Door maybe manually operated or automatic operation.
Manual require a human to open and close the discharge doors which restricts the train speed through the unload shed
Automatic operation require a costly control system (usually Pneumatic) to open and close the doors so wagons require pneumatic piping and a loco to supply the compressed air to operate the doors.
Over time bottom discharge wagons require ongoing maintenance on the doors and operating system
This all adds up to Dollars for ongoing maintenance

Rotary wagons do not require bottom doors as to unload you tip the wagon over.
So only a rotary coupler is required at one end of the wagon
Obviously the Tippler is a lot more expensive to build than a simple under rail bin

So one system has higher cost per wagon, the other higher cost for unload system.
Which is better?  good question.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Watching the tippers was excellent viewing as I had not seen how these worked previously even though there is a great discussion on Railpage about their use.

What was the big bump on the SCT train near Lara?  What could have caused this?

Is it usual for a brake coupling to come undone like it did?

Who is Geelong Control as mentioned in the episode?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Watching the tippers was excellent viewing as I had not seen how these worked previously even though there is a great discussion on Railpage about their use.

What was the big bump on the SCT train near Lara?  What could have caused this?

Is it usual for a brake coupling to come undone like it did?

Who is Geelong Control as mentioned in the episode?
bevans
The car dumpers are a real work of art in both their construction and operation. Their concrete pits, rotary cell, conveyors and indexers to move a 38,000 tonne train by one ore car pair (~22 metres) at a time from and to a dead stop and land the cars at precisely to the millimetre in the rotary cell is little short of a miracle. The forces involved are enormous. The dumper that I have been associated with does this around every 95 seconds.

Early in the days of the Victorian west SG some of the bridges/culverts were like ski jumps in that their levels were fixed and solid but the track did not match these levels due to a deficiency in the depth of ballast each side. I do not imagine that this is still the case so what caused the hosebags becoming uncoupled who knows?

It is not unusual to lose the air due to a burst or uncoupled hosebag or sometimes the gladhand will become detached from the rubber hose. Spares used to be/are carried on the engine.

I assume that 'Geelong Control' is, in fact, whoever controls the BG Geelong line from TH (Transport House and slang alternatives) or wherever these days.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Watching the tippers was excellent viewing as I had not seen how these worked previously even though there is a great discussion on Railpage about their use.

What was the big bump on the SCT train near Lara?  What could have caused this?

Is it usual for a brake coupling to come undone like it did?

Who is Geelong Control as mentioned in the episode?
bevans
At a guess, they hit a boghole, and without interlocking couplers, the train came apart. As the BP parts and vents to atmosphere, the front portion - only 6 cars and a coupe of horses - reaches a full service brake application almost immediately, but the rear portion takes between 30-45 seconds, maybe a little longer, to achieve the same braking effort, so the front portion gets rear-ended by the rear portion. Which would also explain why it was 'just' the BP that was separated, the train was still coupled.

Some railways in Australia use interlocking couplers to avoid this issue, but this introduces other issues, such as additional stress on the drawgear and associated components.
  M636C Minister for Railways


Rotary wagons do not require bottom doors as to unload you tip the wagon over.
So only a rotary coupler is required at one end of the wagon
Obviously the Tippler is a lot more expensive to build than a simple under rail bin

So one system has higher cost per wagon, the other higher cost for unload system.
Which is better?  good question.
Pressman
There are other considerations:

The car positioner is very hard on draft gears, and I recall the QR having to change a lot of these on the Goonyella G wagons in the early 1970s. If things get even slightly out of alignment, the car positioner can do a lot of damage to the carbody of a wagon. While the tippler itself tends to work well, the car positioner needs a lot of attention to ensure it is working properly and the dumper is shut down while the positioner is being maintained.

Although tipplers are still used around Townsville for nickel (or were until recently), the Goonyella line Hay Point terminal was converted from tippler to hopper operation. Of course it is easier to run an overhead catenary through a hopper dumper than a tippler.

The old Goldsworthy dumper at Finucane Island was converted from hopper operation to a tippler, after BHP Billiton took over to allow use of standard BHP Billiton cars.

One thing not often considered is that a tippler can only dump cars of given dimensions. Some changes in capacity can be arranged within the overall length width and height limits, but there is no such restriction on hoppers.  In the Hunter valley, wagons have increased from 75 tonnes gross to 120 tonnes gross with significant increases in length. In Gladstone, hoppers have increased from 63 tonnes gross to 106 tonnes gross becoming both longer and higher.

Meanwhile, BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto iron ore wagons are fixed in dimensions although the capacity has increased within the fixed length and width.

M636C
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Watching the tippers was excellent viewing as I had not seen how these worked previously even though there is a great discussion on Railpage about their use.

What was the big bump on the SCT train near Lara?  What could have caused this?

Is it usual for a brake coupling to come undone like it did?

Who is Geelong Control as mentioned in the episode?
At a guess, they hit a boghole, and without interlocking couplers, the train came apart. As the BP parts and vents to atmosphere, the front portion - only 6 cars and a coupe of horses - reaches a full service brake application almost immediately, but the rear portion takes between 30-45 seconds, maybe a little longer, to achieve the same braking effort, so the front portion gets rear-ended by the rear portion. Which would also explain why it was 'just' the BP that was separated, the train was still coupled.

Some railways in Australia use interlocking couplers to avoid this issue, but this introduces other issues, such as additional stress on the drawgear and associated components.
KRviator
The front portion IS AT RISK of getting rear ended by the rear portion.

I believe in the episode shown, the train came apart but did not collide again.  The jolt was from the sudden braking force as the air venting to atmosphere applied the brakes severely, as it is meant to do.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Air hose uncouplings appear to happen more often when the hose is over a certain length and the Draw Bar has a long neck and to prevent this, some had a cord attached to support it.
Despite the fact most air hoses take a fair bit of force to bend them because their so stiff, its surprising how they dance and bounce around with the movement of the vehicles.
You soon learn how flexible they are if you dont 'bleed' the hose first (if you can) before trying to uncouple one as it can hit you across the knee hurting like hell and raising a bruise.
Although it was frowned upon, quite a few guards left the hoses attached when uncoupling a wagon during shunting.
Other causes as in this one may well have been it was not properly connected in the first place and the movement of the vehicles caused it to uncouple.
In a few rare cases, the hose has been so long and if the vehicles 'closed' up', the hose is now dangling so low that the connection has hit 'something' at rail level and it has come apart.

From what I saw, the Train never 'Broke away', just the air hose as he simply rejoined it, saw the air come on and went back to the Loco.
It may well have been that incredibly rough bit of Track that caused the Air Hose to part and bring the Train to a juddering Halt.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The whole thing could have been staged, of course.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The whole thing could have been staged, of course.
YM-Mundrabilla
It wasn't.

Dramatised, maybe, but staged, no.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
So does 3MP9 equal 3 as in Victoria, M + Melbourne, P + Perth and 9 is the train number?
gordon_s1942
You can actually type any ARTC train number into our search field above and it will tell you what it means.

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