It's the economy, stupid!

 
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I know you hate Pauline but she was spot on about this the other day on Sky; she said they just love to punish to the structurally-unemployed people that they've made that way by off-shoring all the good working class jobs. There's heaps of structural unemployment in our society in my opinion, it's just well-hidden with do-nothing.
don_dunstan
No I don't "hate" as pollies aren't worth that much emotional investment. This is hardly an amazing revelation. She's on Sky for one reason and that shouldn't come as any great revelation either.

That woman routinely sides with the LNP in support of policies which cut workers wages, conditions and rights. What's she actually done to stop worker exploitation, abuse of temp work visas, and loss of jobs through industry restructuring?

So how does she expect to bring those jobs back home?

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  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Interesting ABC Fact Check article which vindicates Pauline and also notes how our economy might be being "propped up" by high immigration rates:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-31/fact-check-pauline-hanson-population-growth-migration/11360502
Carnot
That immigration underpins economic growth is hardly news. Hanson's simply banging that anti-migrant can again.

In fact it's going to have to increase. The birth rate has been below replacement level since 1976. Baby boomers are living longer and many will require high-level care. Go into any age care centre today and you won't see many Hanson lookalikes amongst the staff.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Go into any age care centre today and you won't see many Hanson lookalikes amongst the staff.
Groundrelay

Many industries simply won't employ anglo Aussies, age care being one of them. It's on the new 482 visa list as a "skills shortage" so a lot of "skilled" workers are imported for that industry. Why bother employing an Australian when you can get someone in from overseas whose residency application depends on your generosity in providing them with work?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I know you hate Pauline but she was spot on about this the other day on Sky; she said they just love to punish to the structurally-unemployed people that they've made that way by off-shoring all the good working class jobs. There's heaps of structural unemployment in our society in my opinion, it's just well-hidden with do-nothing.
No I don't "hate" as pollies aren't worth that much emotional investment. This is hardly an amazing revelation. She's on Sky for one reason and that shouldn't come as any great revelation either.

That woman routinely sides with the LNP in support of policies which cut workers wages, conditions and rights. What's she actually done to stop worker exploitation, abuse of temp work visas, and loss of jobs through industry restructuring?

So how does she expect to bring those jobs back home?
Groundrelay
So you support the status quo - got it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
CASH TO BECOME ILLEGAL

The US Federal Reserve has cut official interest rates for the first time since 2008 - and our own RBA is now under pressure to follow suit. Perhaps not next week but certainly I could see another two cuts before the end of this year taking us down to 0.5%. I think there's a real possibility that we will have negative interest rates within the next few years (colloquially known as "ZIRP" or zero interest rate policy). Germany and Japan have already had negative bond rates for some years, it's not out of the question that this will make its way to official central bank rates around the world, perhaps even seriously negative interest rates of -4% or -5%.

Before anyone cries 'conspiracy' the International Monetary Fund has published a handy "to-do" guide for central bankers here on making your economy into a negative interest rate one... so it's a policy being actively pursued in order to keep the global economy ticking over. The IMF has made a prescient call here - there's a number of aims with this policy:
  • Get money out of banks and into productive assets (ie stock market, real-estate)
  • Make money purely an electronic rather than physical thing so easier for the central bank to direct and control
  • Kill 'black economy' activities by removing cash from circulation

The last point is really important because if the proletariat get wind of ZIRP then there's no need to keep money in the bank any longer and they'll all do the classic Italian lady down the road and stuff it under the mattress to protect it. Which segues neatly into this bill currently before parliament here in good old Australia, restricting the use of cash as a payment method for many transactions - surely the first step to making cash illegal by restricting how it can be used. Follows similar legislation overseas including in the EU and India.

Anyone else get the idea we're about to enter an Orwellian nightmare? If they completely regulate the movement and uses of money then we're really in trouble, mark my words.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
India losing a million jobs because of their failing car and mobile phone industries: ZeroHedge:

India is in a cyclical downturn with no signs of abating. The industrial slowdown has already spread into the auto industry, with volume contraction in the June quarter the steepest since 2001. The combination of a slowdown in handset sales and Chinese companies commanding 75% of the Indian market, has led to the recent demise of the Indian handset industry.

With the Indian economy slowing, growth rates plunging across all major industries, a credit crunch that could start making trouble in the industrial sector, India is headed for a prolonged downturn that could be extended well into 2020.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting to see that the mainstream media is starting to cotton on to the inevitability of ZIRP -

Sydney Morning Herald; Cash rate could fall to zero as RBA fights to meet forecasts:

Official interest rates could be slashed to zero and the Reserve Bank forced to take unprecedented steps to protect the economy and jobs market, some of the nation’s pre-eminent economists have warned.

The latest Scope survey for the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age shows most analysts believe the RBA, which meets on Tuesday, has at least one more rate cut on top of the two it delivered in June and July. But some believe the economic headwinds, both domestically and from overseas, may become so acute that the Reserve will have to engage in a suite of radical policies including zero interest rates, and even 'quantitative easing', an unconventional tool used by other central banks including the US Federal Reserve and Bank of Japan.

I've noticed that Scott Morrison has consistently refused to consider raising the rate of Newstart - is that because they know there's going to be double or triple the number of unemployed soon?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China is not negotiating with the United States; they consistently obfuscate the process and so Trump has had no choice but to whack them with even more tariffs - ABC;

US President Donald Trump says he will impose a 10 per cent tariff next month on the remaining $US300 billion in Chinese imports he has not already taxed, which include a vast range of consumer products like phones and toys... His earlier tariffs had been designed to minimise the impact on ordinary Americans by focusing on industrial goods, but the new tariffs will hit American consumer products manufactured in China like iPhones, shoes and toys.

The President accused Beijing of failing to follow through on stopping the sale of the drug fentanyl to the US or on purchasing large quantities of US farm goods such as soybeans.

Speaking to reporters on Thursday (local time) at the White House, Mr Trump complained that Mr Xi is "not moving fast enough".

He said he scheduled the additional tariffs to begin on September 1 to give exports already en route from China time to get to the US — a journey that can take three or four weeks.

By setting the import taxes at 10 per cent, he has leeway to ratchet them higher if necessary to further increase pressure on Beijing.

There was actually a long shopping list of things that Xi Jinping said they were going to negotiate on in good faith on such as intellectual property theft and restrictive trade and investment practices within China but clearly the Chinese were just stalling for time and had no intention of following the rule of law or abiding by WTO rules. So Trump whacks them with more tariffs - good on him.

Say what you like about Trump, he's trying to make the Chinese government adhere to their agreements and when they don't he punishes them as he warned them he was going to do. Compare to Barack Obama who sat on his hands for eight long years.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
So you support the status quo - got it.
don_dunstan
Provide a realistic alternative.

If anything your great white hope is the status quo. The Liberal Party reject pretty much always ends up backing the policies of her former party.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Say what you like about Trump, he's trying to make the Chinese government adhere to their agreements and when they don't he punishes them as he warned them he was going to do. Compare to Barack Obama who sat on his hands for eight long years.
don_dunstan
Again, reality check.
Who do you think is being hurt by this. Not Trump, not big business. It's the average US Consumer, farmers and small manufacturing businesses that are feeling it. In many cases companies benefitting are putting up their prices.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
So you support the status quo - got it.
Provide a realistic alternative.

If anything your great white hope is the status quo. The Liberal Party reject pretty much always ends up backing the policies of her former party.
Groundrelay
Again, you support the status quo - no need to discuss it any further.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Say what you like about Trump, he's trying to make the Chinese government adhere to their agreements and when they don't he punishes them as he warned them he was going to do. Compare to Barack Obama who sat on his hands for eight long years.
Again, reality check.
Who do you think is being hurt by this. Not Trump, not big business. It's the average US Consumer, farmers and small manufacturing businesses that are feeling it. In many cases companies benefitting are putting up their prices.
Groundrelay
So you'd rather China keeps on going with -
  • Open and rampant theft of expensive and painstakingly researched intellectual property
  • Refusing to follow the World Trade Organisation rules
  • Industrial espionage on an enormous scale, forced transfer of proprietary technology from any investor in China
  • Refusal to stem the flow of illicit Fentanyl into the United States from China
The Chinese Communist Party have got away with far too much for far too long, it's high time they were held to account using the same rules that we apply to every other nation.

There's no problem with jacking up the prices of consumer goods in the United States, it might actually generate the inflation that they've been wanting - Trump has openly said he wants interest rates to rise instead of fall and this might be one way of doing it.

What's not to like? Oh that's right, you hate Trump and you'd prefer it if nothing happened just like it did under Obama for eight long years.

Got it.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Say what you like about Trump, he's trying to make the Chinese government adhere to their agreements and when they don't he punishes them as he warned them he was going to do. Compare to Barack Obama who sat on his hands for eight long years.
Again, reality check.
Who do you think is being hurt by this. Not Trump, not big business. It's the average US Consumer, farmers and small manufacturing businesses that are feeling it. In many cases companies benefitting are putting up their prices.
So you'd rather China keeps on going with -
  • Open and rampant theft of expensive and painstakingly researched intellectual property
  • Refusing to follow the World Trade Organisation rules
  • Industrial espionage on an enormous scale, forced transfer of proprietary technology from any investor in China
  • Refusal to stem the flow of illicit Fentanyl into the United States from China
The Chinese Communist Party have got away with far too much for far too long, it's high time they were held to account using the same rules that we apply to every other nation.

There's no problem with jacking up the prices of consumer goods in the United States, it might actually generate the inflation that they've been wanting - Trump has openly said he wants interest rates to rise instead of fall and this might be one way of doing it.

What's not to like? Oh that's right, you hate Trump and you'd prefer it if nothing happened just like it did under Obama for eight long years.

Got it.
don_dunstan
You are so white or black Rolling Eyes You do know Trump has been over the top in pressuring the Fed head to drop interest rates.
China is reality and anyone who thinks the US (or Australia) is going back to the days of old is deluded. China will play him the way the North Koreans have because the bloke is all about himself. They'll throw him a bone or three but China is powerful enough to twist 'the rules' anyway they like and they are experts at the long game.

How does inflation help the forgotten masses if their wages don't keep up! So Trump burns down the house to beat the arsonist then grabs a hose to play the hero and you fall for it. Again I don't need to hate anyone like you need to but I'm not a fan of your assorted great white hopes. Yet again, today we saw another example of the sort of people they attract.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You are so white or black Rolling Eyes You do know Trump has been over the top in pressuring the Fed head to drop interest rates.
Groundrelay
I've read that Trump has attacked Powell for cutting interest rates (PBS) but on the other hand he wants them to do it (CNN), so you could read anything into that.

Either way its likely that with the tariff wall going up they'll continue to cut.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Yet again, today we saw another example of the sort of people they attract.
Groundrelay

That's just plain stupid and frankly I'd expect better of you.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China is reality and anyone who thinks the US (or Australia) is going back to the days of old is deluded.
Groundrelay
Again, you're not responding to the crux of my argument which is that China should play by the same rules that everyone else plays by.

You keep coming back with these ridiculous axioms like "you can't turn back the clock" and "you believe in a great white hope". This is completely irrelevant to the discussion regarding China's intransigence on their 'special treatment' - they are still refusing to follow WTO rules and this is the primary reason why Trump is imposing tariffs. Trump is a hundred percent right in trying to get the Chinese Communist Party to;
  • Allow unrestricted foreign investment as they agreed to nearly 20 years ago when joining the WTO (and still haven't followed through on);
  • Stop the forced transfer of intellectual property;
  • Stop the theft of proprietary and patented technologies;
  • Cease asking for special treatment as a developing nation under WTO rules.
It doesn't matter what you think of Trump, what he's doing is a hundred percent right.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
China is in utter confusion as it tries to respond to Trump's tariffs - NY Times;

On Friday, China’s Ministry of Commerce, which is heavily involved in the country’s trade policy, said it would “take necessary counter measures to resolutely defend the core interests of the country and the fundamental interests of the people.”

The question is how. China’s imports from the United States only a fraction of the trade going the other way, so it cannot match Washington tariff for tariff. Much of that trade consists of agriculture goods like soybeans, as well as specialized products like Boeing jetliners or the American-made chips for the smartphones China makes.

There are several things China could do. It could call for a boycott of American goods or stop buying Boeing planes. It could devalue its currency, which would in effect partially nullify American tariffs. It could make life much harder for American business and executives in China, or it could exercise its power over key parts of the global supply chain, like its dominance over key manufacturing minerals called rare earths...

...But each of these measures has drawbacks. Perhaps the biggest among them is that China’s economy is growing at its slowest pace in 27 years. Many of the arrows Beijing has in its quiver could ricochet and hit its own factories and workers.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Anyone who was hoping this trade war thing would go away is going to be sorely disappointed - the ASX and DOW have crashed on the basis of President Trump putting the Chinese Yuan onto an IMF currency blacklist for deliberately manipulating outcomes - again, another thing they're not supposed to do since they joined the World Trade Organisation nearly 20 years ago. Trump yesterday tweeted the following (via News.com.au);

“Based on the historic currency manipulation by China, it is now even more obvious to everyone that Americans are not paying for the tariffs — they are being paid for compliments of China, and the US is taking in tens of billions of dollars!

China has always used currency manipulation to steal our businesses and factories, hurt our jobs, depress our workers’ wages and harm our farmers’ prices. Not any more!”

The US will now engage with the International Monetary Fund to eliminate unfair competition from Beijing, Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin said in a statement on Monday.

The US had not put China on the currency blacklist since 1994. The designation could pave the way for more US sanctions against China.

The escalations in the trade war between the world’s largest economies are rattling investors already unnerved about a slowing global economy, falling US corporate profits and possibly too-weak inflation.

China have also apparently failed to follow through on an agreement made late last year to buy more US soybeans and technological products. I think it's pretty obvious that Trump is going to keep squeezing them until they either comply or retaliate (somehow?).

Interesting times.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Alrightly then:
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Again, you're not responding to the crux of my argument which is that China should play by the same rules that everyone else plays by.
don_dunstan
I agree that China should play by the rules. So what?

You think Trump can make them! I think that's wishful thinking to be polite. Someone's going to be hurt and it won't be the leadership of China or the US.

Throughout history the strongest make the rules. China is reality. Nothing will change for the average worker but for people like you Trump will emerge triumphant and that's what it's all about.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I agree that China should play by the rules. So what?

You think Trump can make them! I think that's wishful thinking to be polite. Someone's going to be hurt and it won't be the leadership of China or the US.

Throughout history the strongest make the rules. China is reality. Nothing will change for the average worker but for people like you Trump will emerge triumphant and that's what it's all about.
Groundrelay
You're so bigoted against Trump that you can't even acknowledge that what he's doing is right. And (yet again) you're accusing me of being a Trump supporter when I'm not - I judge him by his actions and on this point the action he's taking is about 15-20 years overdue.

"Someone is going to get hurt" - what a load of rubbish. So consumer goods from China go up ten percent - big deal. America's landfills might breathe a huge sigh of relief with slightly less plastic shyte being thrown into them.

China should never have been admitted to the World Trade Organisation to begin with because they wouldn't comply with the fundamental requirements like an open investment environment and the elimination of internal subsidies. They allowed them to join in the sincere but misguided belief that by allowing them in they would eventually follow the trade and investment rules and gradually liberalise and reform their political and economic systems. Instead they've never let go of their special privileged status and if anything their behaviour (particularly in relation to dumping) has become even worse.

You'd probably prefer it if the United States had a do-nothing feel-good let's-all-hug President again. Let's not confront anyone, let's not try and protect the working class from unfair and illegal trade practices - instead you just want a socially progressive President who gets endorsements from billionaires and photo ops with celebrities while totally forgetting about the core Democrat constituency.

Am I right?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I agree that China should play by the rules. So what?

You think Trump can make them! I think that's wishful thinking to be polite. Someone's going to be hurt and it won't be the leadership of China or the US.

Throughout history the strongest make the rules. China is reality. Nothing will change for the average worker but for people like you Trump will emerge triumphant and that's what it's all about.
You're so bigoted against Trump that you can't even acknowledge that what he's doing is right. And (yet again) you're accusing me of being a Trump supporter when I'm not - I judge him by his actions and on this point the action he's taking is about 15-20 years overdue.

"Someone is going to get hurt" - what a load of rubbish. So consumer goods from China go up ten percent - big deal. America's landfills might breathe a huge sigh of relief with slightly less plastic shyte being thrown into them.

China should never have been admitted to the World Trade Organisation to begin with because they wouldn't comply with the fundamental requirements like an open investment environment and the elimination of internal subsidies. They allowed them to join in the sincere but misguided belief that by allowing them in they would eventually follow the trade and investment rules and gradually liberalise and reform their political and economic systems. Instead they've never let go of their special privileged status and if anything their behaviour (particularly in relation to dumping) has become even worse.

You'd probably prefer it if the United States had a do-nothing feel-good let's-all-hug President again. Let's not confront anyone, let's not try and protect the working class from unfair and illegal trade practices - instead you just want a socially progressive President who gets endorsements from billionaires and photo ops with celebrities while totally forgetting about the core Democrat constituency.

Am I right?
don_dunstan

The only reason Trump is doing this is because all his earlier attempts to bolster the US economy have failed.

He has to make a noise, he has to blame someone. Otherwise the working class he has so seriously failed won't vote for him at the next Presidential election.

Simples.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The only reason Trump is doing this is because all his earlier attempts to bolster the US economy have failed.
bingley hall
He's doing it because he said before the election in 2016 that this is what he was going to do: The Guardian (2016)

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump appeared at a rally in Tampa, Florida, and indicated his intent to put tariffs on Chinese products. He also said that he would bring cases against China in the US and at the World Trade Organization. ‘We’re not playing games any more,’ he told the crowd.

My God, what a shock! A politician who actually follows through on a promise that he made prior to an election - we could certainly do with more of those sorts of politicians here in Australia. He even mentioned in that speech how he was going to take China to task for currency manipulation - and guess what - he's done that TOO! Trump has taken China to task on their refusal to follow the rules much to the shock of many I'm sure.

End of story.
He has to make a noise, he has to blame someone. Otherwise the working class he has so seriously failed won't vote for him at the next Presidential election.
bingley hall

Who are the Democrats going to put up against Trump next year that can possibly beat him? They're too busy distancing themselves from Obama's "do-nothing" legacy and attacking each other.

Chaos. At this rate Trump will win with a vastly increased majority.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Repulsive class traitor Paul Keating pops up on the 7:30 Report to talk his own book on superannuation;

Former prime minister Paul Keating says the suggestion that increasing the employer super contribution from 9.5 to 12 per cent would stifle wages is "the great lie".

"It's demonstrably false because nobody since 2014 has had any increase in super, there's been no 2.5 per cent, yet wages have not increased at all," he told 7.30.

A clutch of backbench Liberal MPs have been defying the Morrison Government's official line on superannuation in recent weeks, arguing against a scheduled and already-legislated increase in the employer contribution to 12 per cent.

One newly elected Liberal, Andrew Bragg, went further, saying super should be made optional for low-income earners to give them more flexibility in their finances.

"It's like climate deniers. We've got a bunch of people in the Liberal Party who have always hated superannuation ... they are super deniers," Mr Keating said.

He's trying to connect two completely unrelated events and say that they're connected. Sorry, zero wage inflation has no relationship to superannuation - but increasing the levy will definitely cost jobs here in Australia, there's no doubt about it.

Clearly Paul Keating thinks that the money that goes into superannuation gets pulled out of thin air and doesn't make Australian employees less attractive than those off-shore who don't have arduous taxes on top of their wages. Someone in the Labor Party needs to tell him to shut the hell up - he did enough damage to the workers of Australia while he was PM, now he wants to off-shore even more jobs by making Aussie employers contribute even more money to one of the most expensive and inefficient private pension schemes in the world, costing the average household $3,700 p/a in fees.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Who are the Democrats going to put up against Trump next year that can possibly beat him? They're too busy distancing themselves from Obama's "do-nothing" legacy and attacking each other.
Don Dunstan
Bernie sanders, Nuff said. Like him or not he's probably their best chance with his grassroots campaign, after all he comes from similar 'anti party establishment' rhetoric that trump was pushing. If they Go for warren or Biden it'll be a repeat of the last election, it's just the party establishment so obsessed with blaming Russia and Wikileaks rather than reflecting on the hideous candidate that was Clinton and the ideas and policies she represented. I however still think they're going to rig it for an establishment candidate like Biden or Warren.
Biden is literally running on the ignorant concept of Obama nostalgia, Do I need to begin? He has barely any policies aside from 'curing cancer' and 'keep doing the same'.
The Democrats will need to transform to defeat trump, not rely on Obama's nostalgia and worship. I personally think they are in the process of  transforming with the likes of  AOC and Co. It's possible, If they embrace the change as the republicans did with Trump.

Also something I like to remind trump supporters is that Hillary won the popular vote Razz

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