Also something I like to remind trump supporters is that Hillary won the popular vote

There were multiple problems with her campaign as we've discussed before on this board but I think the really fatal problem was ignoring the core Democrat constituency in places like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and New York. There were lots of places she simply didn't campaign because she assumed they would continue to vote Democrat as they'd always done. Wrong.

Also I think another lesson from the 2016 election was that celebrities and movie stars have much less influence than they think they do.

Very interesting to see Liberal MP Andrew Hastie, a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee, caused an enormous stir by comparing China's ambitions to that of Nazi Germany - ABC;

Mr Hastie used an opinion piece in The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald to warn against underestimating China's influence, saying Australia would face its biggest democratic, economic and security test over the next decade...

...He compared the situation faced by Australia to that faced by French strategists tasked with defending their country against Nazi Germany.

"The West once believed that economic liberalisation would naturally lead to democratisation in China," he wrote.

"This was our Maginot Line. It would keep us safe, just as the French believed their series of steel and concrete forts would guard them against the German advance in 1940. But their thinking failed catastrophically. The French had failed to appreciate the evolution of mobile warfare.

"Like the French, Australia has failed to see how mobile our authoritarian neighbour has become."

In my opinion a valid comparison - especially the assumption that admitting China to the WTO would lead to a political liberalisation. If anything China has become more authoritarian under Chairman Xi. There's been no shortage of condemnation from the Labor Party regarding Andrew Hastie's statement. From the same article:

Foreign affairs spokeswoman Penny Wong said Mr Morrison could not simply downplay the comments.

"The China relationship is a critical relationship for Australia — it is both complex and consequential," she said.

"This Government has a history of its members making ill-advised and unnecessarily inflammatory statements."

Notice how she didn't deny the truth of it.

Hastie is right.  And most of the criticism seems to be from those who think that soft diplomacy is the way forward

But that doesn't work when there's a personality cult running the show in Beijing.

Hastie is right.  And most of the criticism seems to be from those who think that soft diplomacy is the way forward

But that doesn't work when there's a personality cult running the show in Beijing.

We have to be able to speak our minds and call things as we see it as we have always done - anything less is being dishonest to our democratic, liberal traditions.

Not quite sure where Hastie is coming from with his inflammatory remarks given that a significant number of his party's major supporters will have made their millions dealing with this 'Nazi' regime, and those agreeing with him will have a home full of products labelled 'Made in China'

Not quite sure where Hastie is coming from with his inflammatory remarks given that a significant number of his party's major supporters will have made their millions dealing with this 'Nazi' regime, and those agreeing with him will have a home full of products labelled 'Made in China'

The Labor Party have been much worse in this regard, Hawke and Keating et al have been making a fortune from 'introducing' Chinese 'business people' to politicians; also recall how Sam Daystari was caught tipping off that Chinese 'business man' who has since been banned from the country. Comrade Dan Andrews is also leading the way with signing Victoria up to the Chinese "Belt and Road" initiative.

I'm not saying the LNP is totally innocent in this regard but the Labor Party have certainly been rushing headlong into the arms of the Chinese Communist Party with scant regard for the consequences or the possible problems it might cause down the track. If push comes to shove we could certainly survive without Chinese exports and imports - we've done it before.

Also bear in mind that as a member of the joint Intelligence and Security Committee that Hastie is privilege to information about the infiltration of the CCP into Australian politics and universities. All he's really saying is that we have to be very careful about the way we deal with the Chinese government because they are not playing by the rules and they've been leading a significant soft power push into Australia without much discussion here of the possible consequences.

High time it was talked about openly.

Not quite sure where Hastie is coming from with his inflammatory remarks given that a significant number of his party's major supporters will have made their millions dealing with this 'Nazi' regime, and those agreeing with him will have a home full of products labelled 'Made in China'

The Labor Party have been much worse in this regard, Hawke and Keating et al have been making a fortune from 'introducing' Chinese 'business people' to politicians; also recall how Sam Daystari was caught tipping off that Chinese 'business man' who has since been banned from the country. Comrade Dan Andrews is also leading the way with signing Victoria up to the Chinese "Belt and Road" initiative.

I'm not saying the LNP is totally innocent in this regard but the Labor Party have certainly been rushing headlong into the arms of the Chinese Communist Party with scant regard for the consequences or the possible problems it might cause down the track. If push comes to shove we could certainly survive without Chinese exports and imports - we've done it before.

Also bear in mind that as a member of the joint Intelligence and Security Committee that Hastie is privilege to information about the infiltration of the CCP into Australian politics and universities. All he's really saying is that we have to be very careful about the way we deal with the Chinese government because they are not playing by the rules and they've been leading a significant soft power push into Australia without much discussion here of the possible consequences.

High time it was talked about openly.

Nice bit of deflection as usual Don. It's all the Labor Party's fault

I remember two decades ago dealings I had with a former President of the SA branch of the Liberal party. He would rant and rave about them being 'communist and 'socialists' , but was quite happy to do business with them.

Let's not forget that Daystari while was a bit of a simpleton when it came to his indiscretion and was just a sacrificial lamb with plenty of others on both sides of politics have been just as bad.

I remember two decades ago dealings I had with a former President of the SA branch of the Liberal party. He would rant and rave about them being 'communist and 'socialists' , but was quite happy to do business with them.

And in case you hadn't noticed Don - the LNP is the government of the day and has been for the last six years. If there are problems with China (and if there are they are not new) then why haven't they taken actually earlier?

Hastie is just another pollie trying to make a name for themselves in the god bothering, tub thumping mould. He seems to avoid mention of the current crimes being carried out against the Uighurs. Oh wait a minute - they're Muslims and there sure as hell ain't no votes in Muslims.

Take the ALP/LIB parties out of this. Whether we like it or not we are tied to China. It would be a financial disaster for this Country if trade with China were to cease.
At the same time blind Freddie can see parallels with past authoritarian states that have cost liberal democracies dearly in wealth and blood.
We are walking a very narrow path with diplomacy,  trade, defence and intelligence. You would be a brave person to predict how this will all end.
We got into this situation because we are hooked on the easy money from minerals. The greed of easy money has seen large slabs of Australia's industry and capital sold off to China.
One day we will have to choose between China and the USA. Every politician hopes it won't come when they are in office.
If I'm lucky it will happen after I've left this world.

Nice bit of deflection as usual Don. It's all the Labor Party's fault

I remember two decades ago dealings I had with a former President of the SA branch of the Liberal party. He would rant and rave about them being 'communist and 'socialists' , but was quite happy to do business with them.

Bing -

Absolutely right. But there's also some potential blow-back from doing business with regimes that don't see government the same way we do and perhaps we're about to experience some of that blow-back. In a realpolitik situation perhaps we have to ignore some of our trading partners' shortcomings but eventually our world views will collide... I think that's what we're seeing now.

Let's not forget that Daystari while was a bit of a simpleton when it came to his indiscretion and was just a sacrificial lamb with plenty of others on both sides of politics have been just as bad.

Daystari was at the extreme end of that sycophantic attitude to the Chinese Communist Party, but then you have to wonder why his behaviour was tolerated for so long - or why he even got endorsement considering how little he seemed to care about the NSW people he was supposed to represent.

And you're absolutely right about the LNP being in as deep as the Labor Party - but frankly I'd expect better from Labor. I really hate what they've become and the lack of anything real that they stand for apart from feathering their own nests. For example, Keating the other night on the 7:30 Report saying that Shorten failed to appreciate that the Labor Party he and Hawke had built didn't stand for higher taxation to try and help the hand-to-mouth working poor - that really let the cat out of the bag didn't it!

If the Labor Party has no concern whatsoever for the working class then (really) they stand for nothing, don't they? In fact, you might as well vote LNP - at least they're not quite as fast to sell us out to a communist government... at the moment anyway.

And in case you hadn't noticed Don - the LNP is the government of the day and has been for the last six years. If there are problems with China (and if there are they are not new) then why haven't they taken actually earlier? Hastie is just another pollie trying to make a name for themselves in the god bothering, tub thumping mould. He seems to avoid mention of the current crimes being carried out against the Uighurs. Oh wait a minute - they're Muslims and there sure as hell ain't no votes in Muslims.

Nobody - not even Muslim majority countries - has dared to stand up for the Uyghirs in concentration camps. The Chinese government is simply too powerful and ascendant for anyone to try and tackle that one.

I think Andrew Hastie is being quite sincere when he says we need to recognise what it is that we're dealing with - he was given LNP endorsement because they felt he spoke the truth and had credibility with the public, in this instance what he's said has resonated with many. Even the retiring head of ASIO warned of the impending problems because of infiltration of the Chinese Communist Party into Australian political and business institutions. We simply can't ignore what he's saying just because many people in power don't want to hear it for fear of offending the CCP.

As Peter Dutton said yesterday, we need to assert our sovereignty from time to time; there's no point in pretending "there's nothing to see here" (Fairfax/Nine).

All this Because the CCP want us as a puppet communist government?

And you're absolutely right about the LNP being in as deep as the Labor Party - but frankly I'd expect better from Labor. I really hate...

It’s not as if you ever needed an excuse to attack Labor
Yet again you intentionally ignore reality. The likes of Gina (Pauline's bestie)and Clive do very well out of China. The sort of people who support the Liberal or National Parties NOT Labor.  

I think Andrew Hastie..
As Peter Dutton said yesterday, we need to assert our sovereignty from time to time; there's no point in pretending "there's nothing to see here" (Fairfax/Nine).

None of that lot including Hastie and Dutton would seriously jeopardise the lucrative relationship with China their benefactors and future employers enjoy.

As for Hastie's Nazis, that's ironic given that ex-military conservatives were big supports of fascism and Herr Hitler until well into WW2. As for communism, that only became reality because conservatives created the conditions for revolution. Capitalism existed for centuries before modern democracy, China has never been democratic and we're sliding towards authoritarianism. Nothing matters as long as someone gets rich and that's why the Liberal Party fundamentally exists.

It’s not as if you ever needed an excuse to attack Labor

They proved only two months ago that they were manifestly un-electable. Paul Keating spells it out like it is - the Labor Party that he and Bob Hawke "modernised" doesn't give a damn about the working poor; therefore why should anyone (at all) vote for them?

Keating has it completely the wrong way around - as usual. Shorten and his ilk didn't give any working class person a good reason to vote for them - so they didn't. I wouldn't be surprised if the Labor Party doesn't even exist in its current form in another five or ten years - it's sliding into electoral obscurity as we speak.

Yet again you intentionally ignore reality. The likes of Gina (Pauline's bestie)and Clive do very well out of China. The sort of people who support the Liberal or National Parties NOT Labor.

Pauline has nothing whatsoever to do with what we're discussing. And so what if the people who are doing well out of China are Liberal supporters - the fact is that the Labor Party is further up the Chinese Communist Party's sphincter than any Liberal/National politician could ever hope to wedge themselves.

Bob Hawke. Paul Keating. Bob Carr. The list goes on.

None of that lot including Hastie and Dutton would seriously jeopardise the lucrative relationship with China their benefactors and future employers enjoy.

Again, Labor has a much worse record on this. Keating is on the board of the Chinese Development Bank. Hawke was in the pay of many Chinese proto-government companies seeking ingress into Australia. Bob Carr is chair of his very own Confucius Institute at the University of NSW. You seriously think the LNP is worse? Who (from the shadow ministry) has actually spoken out about the concentration camps, forced labour, organ harvesting, persecution of Falun Gung - who?

Can you name any?

As for Hastie's Nazis, that's ironic given that ex-military conservatives were big supports of fascism and Herr Hitler until well into WW2. As for communism, that only became reality because conservatives created the conditions for revolution. Capitalism existed for centuries before modern democracy, China has never been democratic and we're sliding towards authoritarianism. Nothing matters as long as someone gets rich and that's why the Liberal Party fundamentally exists.

Again, please tell me what the Labor Party stands for. Give me a reason to vote for them - because at the moment they actually appear to be the worse of the two.

Oh mAh GoRd tHe ChiNEsE aRE SuPaRsInG AmErIcA AnD sPrEaDiNG tHeRE InfUEnCe

China says "get back into line" - News.com.au;

In a strongly worded statement released this afternoon, a spokesperson for the Chinese Embassy said Mr Hastie had undermined the “mutual trust” between Australia and the Asian superpower.

“We strongly deplore the Australian federal MP Andrew Hastie’s rhetoric on ‘China threat’ which lays bare his Cold War mentality and ideological bias,” the statement said.

“It goes against the world trend of peace, co-operation and development. It is detrimental to China-Australian relations.

“History has proven and will continue to prove that China’s peaceful development is an opportunity, not a threat to the world.

“We urge Australian politicians to take off their ‘coloured lens’ and view China’s development path in an objective and rational war. They should make efforts to promote mutual trust between China and Australia, instead of doing the opposite.”

Just because we lock millions of people into concentration camps doesn't mean we're about to do that to you. Mind your own business!

As if to reinforce how much the Labor Party stinks of Chinese Communist Party money, former NSW Labor Upper House member Earnest Wong is going to be formally investigated over his links to Chinese intelligence, the so-called "United Work Front" (Sydney Morning Herald);

The fuse for the corruption probe was lit four years ago, at a Chinese Friends of Labor (CFOL) fundraising dinner held at the Eight Modern Restaurant in Sydney's Chinatown, not far from the party's headquarters.

Hosted by then MP Ernest Wong, the dinner for 600 guests was held on March 12, 2015, a fortnight before that year's state election.

As well as a slew of then political luminaries such as Bill Shorten, Luke Foley (at that time the state party leader), Chris Minns and senior federal frontbencher Chris Bowen, one of the most important guests at the dinner was Wong's close friend, Chinese billionaire Huang Xiangmo...

...According to Labor sources, Wong's connections with Chinese donors, including Huang, were a major factor in his being able to secure a political position. Wong had taken the parliamentary spot of another former general secretary of the ALP, Eric Roozendaal, who'd left the upper house in 2013 and taken up a role as deputy chairman of the Yuhu Group.

There will be some very unsavoury things come out of this ICAC investigations, including the likely revelation that Earnest Wong's fundraising for the ALP resulted in lots of money coming in from the Chinese Communist Party via Huang Xiangmo. It proved too much even for the crooked Labor Party who relegated him to an un-winnable ticket position last year before he decided to formally resign.

No wonder NSW Labor couldn't get into office earlier this year, the shadow of Eddie Obied still lingers over everything it does.

Again, please tell me what the Labor Party stands for. Give me a reason to vote for them - because at the moment they actually appear to be the worse of the two.

Go ahead and just continue to post volumes about them rather than the mob you don't not support

This played out predictably. Someone in the Liberal Party (this time) throws you a bone and you're salivating copiously. Now that's good for them because you'll keep voting for them.

Hastie isn't saying anything we don't already know. What was the point other than keeping people like you and assorted shock jocks feed. So one week later what's changed with China. I'd suggest nothing next week or the week after or next month or...

He's done his job

Go ahead and just continue to post volumes about them rather than the mob you don't not support

This played out predictably. Someone in the Liberal Party (this time) throws you a bone and you're salivating copiously. Now that's good for them because you'll keep voting for them.

I have never, ever voted Liberal or National in my life - but I happen to agree with what Hastie and Dutton have said. I'll ask you again, where is the objective analysis from the Labor Party about the threat that the Communist Party of China poses to our system of government with their soft power push, their millions of dollars and their "United Work Front"?

The Labor Party, especially in NSW, is about as crooked as you can get - far in excess of anything that the LNP have managed to achieve. I notice that there's an ICAC investigation about to start into NSW Labor and the (former) upper house member Earnest Wong, someone who bought so much money into the ALP that he was given privileged status and his own office at 383 Sussex Street even before he got nomination for the upper house.

Labor stinks to high heaven of Chinese Communist Party influence and money and its apologists like you who have tried to excuse it for years.

Hastie isn't saying anything we don't already know. What was the point other than keeping people like you and assorted shock jocks feed. So one week later what's changed with China. I'd suggest nothing next week or the week after or next month or... He's done his job

Nothing has changed because people like Morrison and Frydenburg are too scared to admit the truth of the situation lest they upset our biggest trading partner.

Equally as complicit (and weak) as the ALP. Notice how I don't let them off the hook either.

Since we don't have a thread devoted to Aussie politics at the moment I thought I'd post this here:

Christopher Pyne negotiated his cushy new job with consultants to the government (EY Consulting) while he was still Minister for Defense (New Daily);

The revelations are outlined in a submission to a parliamentary inquiry lodged by his new employer EY Consulting on Tuesday.

Mr Pyne has previously been cleared of any breach of the Prime Minister’s code of ministerial standards by the outgoing head of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet Martin Parkinson.

Mr Pyne declined to comment on Tuesday night about whether Dr Parkinson was aware of the contact with EY over a possible job when he was a minister or whether this was disclosed to anyone in the government.

Regardless, it would appear that talking to future employers or clients about work in the future does not breach the ministerial code, providing more ammunition for those who say it needs an overhaul.

What a joke - at the very least he should be punished by taking his parliamentary pension away.

Back to the economy: Wages growth still flat-lining on 2.3% p/a, well below the 3-4% annual growth that Treasurer Josh Frydenburg was predicting in the last budget (ABC);

Over the June quarter, the seasonally adjusted wage price index rose by 0.6 per cent, with a 0.8 per cent increase in the public sector more than compensating for a disappointing 0.5 per cent increase in the private sector.

"The most significant contribution to wage growth this quarter came from the public sector component of the health care and social assistance industry, where a number of large increases were recorded in Victoria under a plan to ensure wage parity with other states," Australian Bureau of Statistics chief economist Bruce Hockman said.

Healthcare workers are leading the pack on wage increases, seeing their pay packets (excluding bonuses) up 3.3 per cent for the year.

Where you are looking for work also is a big determinant on wage growth, with Victoria continuing to outpace the likes of Queensland and New South Wales — both sitting on the national average of 2.3 per cent growth...

...Asia-Pacific economist at global job site Indeed, Callam Pickering said wage growth remains quite low across almost every state and industry, with only small pockets of genuine improvement.

"The one saving grace for households is that inflation has been even lower than wage growth," Mr Pickering said.

The actual growth is very uneven nationally - if VIC and ACT are taken out of the equation then the increase is more like 1% p/a and in WA and the NT even lower than that. There's no doubt that the 2019-2020 budget predictions are now not feasible - I guess it's goodbye precious surplus?

..

"The most significant contribution to wage growth this quarter came from the public sector component of the health care and social assistance industry, where a number of large increases were recorded in Victoria under a plan to ensure wage parity with other states," Australian Bureau of Statistics chief economist Bruce Hockman said.

Healthcare workers are leading the pack on wage increases, seeing their pay packets (excluding bonuses) up 3.3 per cent for the year.

so our "growth" is measured by a meager rise to some of the poorest paid, that has been held back for years - a one off.

"Health care" are some high priced doctors, plus a heck of a lot of underpaid nurses, orderlys, interns, cleaners.

Politics of envy to divert the majority that are getting bugger all.

cheers
John

It was revealed today on numerous news sources that South Australia officially has the highest unemployment in the nation - yes, we even managed to beat Tasmania.

Officially we now have 6.9% unemployment in SA, Queensland at 6.4%, Tasmania at 6.0% and WA now in fourth place at 5.9%.

It was left to our hapless Treasurer Rob Lucas to go to the media and try and explain that they were doing everything they could to try and head off rising unemployment. As usual he trotted out the old lines of "space jobs, defense jobs", no organic jobs growth from the private sector - but who can blame any business for leaving South Australia with the highest electricity prices in the world.

The surprising part is that this surprises people.
WTF else does SA have going for it?? I'm not sure, but someone must know what it is about SA that makes the state $$$.
Having determined that, what can be done to expand/maximise it?? If you're crap at making new business, whats being done to support/encourage/expand what is working???

Some damn fine wine comes outta the place............. Umm - make more???
There's got to be more than sob stories surely?

Regards

What about all the "green" jobs that the renewable sector was supposed to bring?

The surprising part is that this surprises people.
WTF else does SA have going for it?? I'm not sure, but someone must know what it is about SA that makes the state $$$.
Having determined that, what can be done to expand/maximise it?? If you're crap at making new business, whats being done to support/encourage/expand what is working???

Some damn fine wine comes outta the place............. Umm - make more???
There's got to be more than sob stories surely?

Regards

Dave, I think it's blow-back from the closure of the car industry, not just the actual Holden plant but dozens of local and interstate components suppliers fed into that and now they're mostly all gone, unable to survive without car manufacturing. Many of the former staff from Holden got quite generous separation packages because they'd been there a long time - they've probably all spent that money and are looking for work again.

The wine industry alone can't support the state - and we have multiple problems with trying to make it go further not the least of which is the lack of water and the fact that most of the ideal grape growing areas (Coonawarra, Barossa) are already covered in vines. There's been dozens of employment centres and high-tech manufacturing zones tried in the past (think Multi-Function Polis), they directly paid Galaxy Pay TV to come here (lasted less than two years), there's been dozens of deals done to try and attract corporates like a Westpac call centre that later bailed when the money ran out.

The only thing really growing in this state - as it is in other states - is things directly or indirectly funded by government money. As the Treasurer said, submarines, defense systems, defense support... and the ultimate joke of 20,000 "space jobs" which will apparently be coming along any day now thanks to a joint SA/Commonwealth research centre funded with seed money. The chronically stupid Marshall government has even been organising a new type of 'skills shortage' visa under which regional employers will be able to pay less than award to import workers - this in the face of rapidly rising unemployment?

South Australia isn't alone, almost four-fifths of the growth in our GDP is directly attributable to government spending and the only wages growth at the moment is attributable to NDIS and the government spending more on health; we really have a Keynesian economic situation right now where the Commonwealth government has been spending big to keep us out of technical recession for quite some time. It can't last.

ZeroHedge is reporting that the Chinese government has rejected Trump's offer of a peace deal on the tariffs he's imposed on Chinese products and has vowed to retaliate against the United States as soon as possible:

Echoing what Global Times editor in chief Hu Xijin said overnight, a short Thursday statement from the State Council Tariff Committee said the new 10% tariffs have taken the U.S. and China off the track of resolving their dispute through negotiation, and noted that China "has no choice but to take necessary measures to retaliate," without specifying what the nation would do. The committee has overseen tit-for-tat retaliatory tariffs on American products.

The statement indicates that it won’t take long for China to reveal its own retaliatory tariffs, according to Tu Xinquan, dean of the China Institute for WTO Studies at the University of International Business and Economics in Beijing. The response is about expressing China’s stance even though policy makers know the impact on the U.S. economy will be limited, he told Bloomberg...

...And with the ball no longer in China's court now that Beijing has spat at Trump's coy attempt at quasi-appeasement, all eyes are back on Trump's twitter feed where the US president has two options: either offer even more concessions to China and be seen as even weaker and more desperate to get some concessions out of Beijing (unlikely), or go back to square one and/or escalate tensions even more and potentially eliminate the proposed tariff delay, sending stocks plunging (and the Fed that much closer to the coveted emergency rate cut).

Most goods being shipped from China to the United States (such as consumer items) are still un-tariffed but that might change very rapidly if the Chinese slap retaliatory tariffs on United States imports.