It's the economy, stupid!

 
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Graham4405, illustrated perfectly in relation to Vale Brazil. Scumo and co dodged a bullet. So far.
Huh? Can't find my last post in this thread, it was more than two months ago, not sure what you are replying to?
Graham4405
Apologies Graham. Believe was posted in news.

Edit.Again apologise, Graham.
It was Groundrelay's post I was referring to. RE Vale.
See previous page.

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Government-mandated drug testing of people on Newstart and Youth Allowance but will they try Senator Jacqui Lambie's idea of drug-testing the entire parliament? From the ABC:

The success of the new bill, being introduced next week, could depend on crossbench Senator Jacqui Lambie who previously called for the program to be expanded to include MPs.

"It should be random drug testing, so when I walk in here (Parliament House) and they say, 'You are going to lick the stick', then that's exactly what I'm going to be doing, and everyone else behind me on that random list," Senator Lambie said in 2017.

Even our favorite Lurch impersonator likes the idea - News.com.au:

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton has said it’s just “common sense” to drug test people who receive Centrelink benefits.

Talking on Channel 9’s Today this morning, Mr Dutton said the controversial proposal — which would see welfare recipients who test positive put on income management — should be backed by Labor.

“It’s not about a punishment, it’s about making sure that money is spent on them, on their kids if that’s the case, but not on drugs and illicit substances.”

Apparently it will cost quite a lot of money just for this single trial - if they really want to help the unemployed then why not create proper jobs paid at minimum wage for them? The largest growing cohort on the dole is over 50's - obviously once you've hit that age you've got massive problems getting re-employed. Isn't drug testing just a diversion from the fact that we can't really help these people?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Apparently it will cost quite a lot of money just for this single trial - if they really want to help the unemployed then why not create proper jobs paid at minimum wage for them? The largest growing cohort on the dole is over 50's - obviously once you've hit that age you've got massive problems getting re-employed. Isn't drug testing just a diversion from the fact that we can't really help these people?
"don_dunstan"
Demonising the unemployed has been Liberal Party policy for decades.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Interesting commentary from The Guardian:-

"The Morrison government needs to wake up. It spent the entire election campaign telling us the economy was strong despite clear evidence that was not the case, and now in the light of some of the worst economic growth figures this century it would have us believe all is going to plan.
If that is so, what the heck does that say about their plan?
At the Liberal party election campaign launch in May, Scott Morrison told the audience: “You know, it all begins with keeping our economy strong.”
It was a rather interesting use of the present tense “keeping”, as this week’s GDP figures have made abundantly clear the economy was not strong at the time of his speech, and has not been so for a year now (even worse, this was obvious even before Morrison gave his speech in May).
The 2018-19 financial year had the lowest growth since 2000-01, and it was the eighth worst year out of the 60 since 1960.
In the past 35 financial years only five have seen worse per-capita growth, and in the past 40 only four have seen lower productivity growth.
And yet we have the treasurer telling us that “the fundamentals of the Australian economy are strong”."
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Apparently it will cost quite a lot of money just for this single trial - if they really want to help the unemployed then why not create proper jobs paid at minimum wage for them? The largest growing cohort on the dole is over 50's - obviously once you've hit that age you've got massive problems getting re-employed. Isn't drug testing just a diversion from the fact that we can't really help these people?
Demonising the unemployed has been Liberal Party policy for decades.
Valvegear
They are about to roll out the cashless welfare card to everyone on Youth Allowance but they have absolutely no evidence that it works.

Good on Jacqui Lambie for standing up to the thugs in government pretending they want to help people when they're really about punishing them. She released a statement this morning that pretty much encapsulates what this government is really trying to achieve - via the Guardian:

This isn’t really about getting people off drugs. It’s about kicking people off payments.

You can’t punish someone for being on drugs if they don’t have the help available to get them off it. We have to get the services in place to help people.

The government hasn’t done its due diligence here. It’s put the cart before the horse. We have bugger all in place to help people with mental health let alone drug and alcohol rehabilitation.

The fact the government wants to throw drug tests at everybody but themselves shows plain as day what the real agenda is. It’s one rule for them, one for everyone else. They don’t want a breathalyser at the chamber doors after those long dinner breaks where half of them get on the sauce.

Bottom line is I’m not going to punish people for seeking help and not getting it, because we’re not making it available to them. We can’t cut off a drug addict who’s done the right thing in seeking treatment only to be told they have to wait 12 months for a rehab bed.

They say taxpayers don’t want their money going to drug dealers. What, are they going to test every ABC journo? Every pensioner? Every war veteran? Every school teacher? Let’s get real. This isn’t about who is getting tax dollars, it’s about who’s easy to take them from.

So if this isn’t about respecting taxpayers, then let’s get real and make it about getting people off drugs full stop. You can’t punish someone into going clean.

If the government wants my vote on drug testing, it’s time for them to step up and put comprehensive mental health and drug and alcohol rehabilitation services in place.

They need to show that they are interested in more than punishing people who are on welfare.

If you kick a drug addict off payments, they don’t magically get better.

They just become a junkie with a habit to service and no money to service it with. So what you end up seeing is more cars being broken into, more TVs being flogged at Cash Converters, more prostitution, more crime, more cost and no fewer drug addicts.

Making an addict more desperate doesn’t make them more healthy.

My message to the government is simple: fix the support services and you’ll get my support too. Until then, get off your high horse and get back to work.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
If a drug addict cannot access the dole/pension/welfare payment there is only one way for them to get money - up go the number of house/business burglaries, armed robberies etc.   It will not get them off drugs.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I thought I'd keep yet another discussion about Aussie politics here...

Gladys Liu, Liberal MP for Chisholm, has said in the past that she's never-ever had links to the Chinese Communist Party at all being a Hong Kong born person and all. However not properly recalling membership of a CCP-backed organisation is really quite poor form. Also extremely poor form was ScoMo playing the race card in parliament today - pathetic in fact.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The crux of the problem is that anyone who is Chinese-Australian is going to be asked about their opinions on the current Chinese government's legitimacy - let's face it, the CCP is a relic of 20th century totalitarianism. If they can't categorically call the CCP out for what they are then we have a problem.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The crux of the problem is that anyone who is Chinese-Australian is going to be asked about their opinions on the current Chinese government's legitimacy - let's face it, the CCP is a relic of 20th century totalitarianism. If they can't categorically call the CCP out for what they are then we have a problem.
don_dunstan
The Party would Disagree with that, after all they are creating the closest thing to an Orwellian nightmare and their power and influence will only further grow at its current rate. No one is willing to stop the CCP and it seemingly will continue on its natural course to overtake the United States as the dominant global force as I've said before.

We won't call them out, our Government and its beloved economy is too wired into the Chinese economy and disconnecting will hurt our economy. They don't wanna bite the hand that feeds them. Dream on, that's not happening. No Politician in this country is brave enough to do so.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I thought I'd keep yet another discussion about Aussie politics here...

Gladys Liu, Liberal MP for Chisholm, has said in the past that she's never-ever had links to the Chinese Communist Party at all being a Hong Kong born person and all. However not properly recalling membership of a CCP-backed organisation is really quite poor form. Also extremely poor form was ScoMo playing the race card in parliament today - pathetic in fact.
don_dunstan
The Liberal Party don't have a problem with 'communists' now that they let people get rich Wink

Very poor form the way he tried to play the race card. I suppose her ancestry had no bearing on her pre-selection to that seat. Obviously they made a decision that her electability was more important than the warnings. Push ahead and sort out the mess later!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I thought I'd keep yet another discussion about Aussie politics here...

Gladys Liu, Liberal MP for Chisholm, has said in the past that she's never-ever had links to the Chinese Communist Party at all being a Hong Kong born person and all. However not properly recalling membership of a CCP-backed organisation is really quite poor form. Also extremely poor form was ScoMo playing the race card in parliament today - pathetic in fact.
The Liberal Party don't have a problem with 'communists' now that they let people get rich Wink

Very poor form the way he tried to play the race card. I suppose her ancestry had no bearing on her pre-selection to that seat. Obviously they made a decision that her electability was more important than the warnings. Push ahead and sort out the mess later!
Groundrelay
I think the Labor Party have also made the same mistake in the past with Nova Peris-Kneebone and Cheryl Kernot.

Meanwhile did you hear about this very funny lark today - $4 million worth of fraud in a childcare scam and NSW Police say there are probably a hundred other such schemes in operation - News.com.au:

NSW Police initially charged 17 people in May over alleged involvement in a fake business called Red Roses Family Day Care.

“The whole thing was a fraud,” Mr Smith said in May.

Police allege the illegitimate company raked in at least $3.9 million in rebates over a 10-month period by exploiting the federal government’s childcare subsidy scheme.

The company’s director alone pocketed $30,000 a fortnight, police said in May.

At the time, they revealed some 150 parents who claimed they had between three and seven children in care claimed rebates.

It’s alleged parents and carers handed over their children’s details, including their Centrelink Customer Reference Number, in exchange for cash.

Red Roses Family Day Care looked like a legitimate business operating out of multiple sites in Sydney and Wollongong.

Wow, really? The CEO was getting $30,000 a fortnight? I'd say the Commonwealth are the prime dupes here if it took them that long to uncover such an audacious and greedy scheme.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Unemployment figures come out on the same day that Josh Frydenburg crows about achieving a balanced budget and show that the situation is deteriorating on the jobs front - ABC;

Unemployment has continued its steady grind higher, hitting 5.3 per cent in August.

It has been rising since hitting a seasonally adjusted decade low of 4.9 per cent in February and is now at its highest point since June last year.

It is disheartening for the Reserve Bank, which has been hoping the trend would be moving down to 4.5 per cent — its theoretical idea of full employment that would drive wages growth up.

It is, of course, worse for the estimated 716,800 people stuck in the jobless queue.

My own home state of South Australia records the highest unemployment in the nation yet again - 7.3%. Whoever said the car industry wouldn't be missed was totally wrong, we aren't in official recession yet but we're steadily marching towards 10% unemployment.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting to note the Chinese government has developed a 'sonic weapon' for use in riots - South China Morning Post;

The rifle-shaped instrument, which was jointly developed with military and law enforcement, is designed to disperse crowds using focused waves of low frequency sound, the academy's Technical Institute of Physics and Chemistry website said on Wednesday.

The device’s “biological effect” would cause extreme discomfort, with vibrations in the eardrums, eyeballs, stomach, liver, and brain, scientists said.

Studies dating to the 1940s found that low frequency sound energy could, depending upon intensity and exposure, cause dizziness, headaches, vomiting, bowel spasms, involuntary defecation, organ damage and heart attacks.

Why not test your new weapon on some unsuspecting patsies in (say) a foreign embassy or consulate? SCMP again:

The US embassy in China sent its second alert in two weeks to its citizens on Friday over unexplained health issues that have prompted the evacuation of a number of US government employees working at a consulate in a southern city.

The alert urged Americans to seek medical help in the event they suffered any “unusual, unexplained physical symptoms or events, auditory or sensory phenomena, or other health concerns”.

The alert comes as a US medical team is screening more Americans who work at the Guangzhou consulate. A previous case in the southern city, disclosed last month, prompted the tests.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Aussie household indebtedness the highest in the world; and possibly the reason why an economic recovery isn't on the horizon - Financial Review;

Highly leveraged households in Australia have reached "problem levels" as poor housing affordability combined with an over-extension of household debt create a tipping point that, with an extra ingredient, would create the perfect storm for a recession, according to a new report by Oxford Economics...

..."Over the last five decades, sharp house price corrections (negative year-on-year house price growth rates) have been followed by recessions," senior economist at Oxford Economics Tamara Basic Vasiljev said.

Ms Basic Vasiljev said three ingredients in a severe downturn - the over-extension of household debt, low housing affordability and rising mortgage rates - played a larger role in influencing the broader economy and in such an environment "tipping points were easily breached".

But despite leverage and poor affordability being "worryingly high" in some countries, current debt dynamics were encouraging and mortgage rates were expected to remain low.

So the conclusion (appears to be) that we should take on even more debt to keep the prosperity wheel turning. Isn't debt the reason why things have become so moribund to begin with?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Good on Jacqui Lambie for standing up to the thugs in government pretending they want to help people when they're really about punishing them.
don_dunstan
No surprise who showed where her allegiance lay, in her usual nasty way

Pauline Hanson has attacked Jacqui Lambie for opposing the government's proposed welfare drug-testing trial, demanding a "please explain" and dragging her family into the fray.
"Her child has been on drugs and you wouldn't knock back something that could possibly help people like her son," Senator Hanson said in Canberra on Tuesday.
"Why is she knocking this back? Who's got in her ear?".


http://www.9news.com.au/national/pauline-hanson-attacks-jacqui-lambie-over-centrelink-welfare-drug-testing-stance/f9edced8-ac20-4549-a37e-3adfc93df7b7
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

I thought I'd keep yet another discussion about Aussie politics here...

Gladys Liu, Liberal MP for Chisholm, has said in the past that she's never-ever had links to the Chinese Communist Party at all being a Hong Kong born person and all. However not properly recalling membership of a CCP-backed organisation is really quite poor form. Also extremely poor form was ScoMo playing the race card in parliament today - pathetic in fact.
don_dunstan
Hello All,

It should also be remembered that China has never been a democracy, it has always been an authoritarian State where centralized power has been the norm, occasionally interspersed with central collapse and a reversion to regional warlordism, until an effective central government re-emerged.

The CPC controlled People's Republic of China is the current iteration of this historical process, and it has been the effective government of China since 1949 when it defeated the blatantly corrupt and incompetent Kuomingtang Administration, which was also an authoritarian regime ( supported by Stalin ). ( It should also be pointed out that two KMT armies defected to the Reds after the outbreak of Civil War following Japan's collapse, which would seem to indicate that even they decided that the KMT was no longer a viable entity.


it should be appreciated that in any well organised totalitarian society, particularly, though not exclusively, Socialist/Communist Dictatorship, politics is all, irrespective of whether it is the corner Chess Club, the Community Gym, or the Business Round Table equivalents. From the perspective of the Party, politics is everything, and everything is political, and therefore the Party needs to have oversight and input.

It therefore follows that members of the organisation do not necessarily hold Party membership ( and one of Stalin's early reforms was to restrict Party membership to 1% of the adult population, and Party membership is by invitation only ( and subject to regular purges to maintain the desired 1% ). ( I understand this to be also the case in China. )

The CCP actively recruits the best and brightest ( and presumably regularly purges those who do not perform ). It therefore follows that encouraging, and having oversight of, all organisations, the Party ensures that it has influence and knowledge of what is happening.

With the passage of time, membership of all organisations change, the difference here is that the Party has oversight, and a veto power, which it will exercise, if it sees a need to do so.

Conversely, the mere fact that a person is a member of an organisation does not mean that they are a Party member ( they probably are not ) , nor does it necessarily mean that they are "controlled" by the Party.

What it does mean is that they have contacts, which may, or may not, prove useful at some future point. Therefore being a member of an organisation which, by default, will always have Party oversight, should not, of itself, be the sole criterion for judging current or former members.

The whole point of the United Front was originally to form coalitions of interest that would further the Party's interests. and to some extent, that view is still valid. In an entrepreneurial China, it is in the Party's interest to have non party members discussing and advising on policy issues, or commenting on future planning proposals, especially when non State owned enterprises are involved, it is a form of consultation that can be mutually beneficial.

In China, as elsewhere, there are doubtless many people who have little or no interest in either politics or in being a Party member ( you are invited to be a Party member, it is a privilege to be invited, and you can decline ), however they may be quite happy to be a member of a community group, which, from the Party's United Front perspective, means that the Party gets the benefit of their input, and the is perceived to be of mutual benefit.

I therefore think that immigrants who have previously had membership of United Front affiliates need to be judged on a wider criteria than just membership of a United Front related entity. After all, by default, all non party groups come within the purview of the United Front.

From a different perspective, the major parties in Australia all have members who have other representative roles, be they Trade Union or Corporate, and equally, our political Parties see a need to attract such people to assist them in their policy formulation. It is equally true that Australian State and Commonwealth Governments have various consultative organisations which are used to discuss, process and implement Government policies or recommendations, though our perception of what is political, and what is not, is quite different from that of the CPC.

Regards, Radioman.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Wasn't sure where to post this.



Q. What does one call a Woolworths supermarket burnt to the ground?
A. Coles.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Wasn't sure where to post this.



Q. What does one call a Woolworths supermarket burnt to the ground?
A. Coles.
michaelgm
It's so weird you should mention this, I've been having some passionate arguments with friends/family about supermarket loyalties recently.

This advert 12 months ago convinced me to join a loyalty card club -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dqnqcd-LKU

I ended up joining the cult of Woolies because since moving back to SA from VIC I've found I'm shopping at Woolies more - probably better locations in metro Adelaide as opposed to the parts of Melbourne I lived in. Although friends of mine in Ballarat report swapping to Woolies in the last few years too.

Anyway I joined in February and I have to report it's more fun than Scientology or the Moonies - I got $10 off a tank of petrol a few months ago, I recently had $10 off a $60 purchase at BWS and in the meantime I've accumulated $110 of Woolies dollars that I've elected to spend on December 1st. I still shop at Foodland and the Central Markets just as much as always but as the primary grocery buyer in the family I have to report my shopping habits didn't change one iota but I still got those really good deals from the Woolies empire in exchange for lots of detail about myself and what I buy.

Fair deal in my opinion, I look at that Aldi advert now and think "yet another reason to never shop there".
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Good on Jacqui Lambie for standing up to the thugs in government pretending they want to help people when they're really about punishing them.
No surprise who showed where her allegiance lay, in her usual nasty way

Pauline Hanson has attacked Jacqui Lambie for opposing the government's proposed welfare drug-testing trial, demanding a "please explain" and dragging her family into the fray.
"Her child has been on drugs and you wouldn't knock back something that could possibly help people like her son," Senator Hanson said in Canberra on Tuesday.
"Why is she knocking this back? Who's got in her ear?".


http://www.9news.com.au/national/pauline-hanson-attacks-jacqui-lambie-over-centrelink-welfare-drug-testing-stance/f9edced8-ac20-4549-a37e-3adfc93df7b7
Groundrelay
Okay look I'm willing to forgive Pauline for this misjudgement.. maybe not misjudgement but having worked in that sector before I can wholeheartedly agree with Lambie that the resources to help those people once identified simply aren't there.

Its a helluva lot more complicated that we can ever hope to encapsulate on this forum.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Hello All,

It should also be remembered that China has never been a democracy, it has always been an authoritarian State where centralized power has been the norm, occasionally interspersed with central collapse and a reversion to regional warlordism, until an effective central government re-emerged.

The CPC controlled People's Republic of China is the current iteration of this historical process, and it has been the effective government of China since 1949 when it defeated the blatantly corrupt and incompetent Kuomingtang Administration, which was also an authoritarian regime ( supported by Stalin ). ( It should also be pointed out that two KMT armies defected to the Reds after the outbreak of Civil War following Japan's collapse, which would seem to indicate that even they decided that the KMT was no longer a viable entity.

...
Regards, Radioman.
Radioman
If I was to try and summarise what's wrong with that position to both you and Dangersdan - the CCP is not legitimate as long as it refuses to have a separate judiciary and a rule of law - end of story. They can't just keep robbing the rest of of world for intellectual capital forever and judging by their latest set of economic figures it isn't working any more anyway.

Bob Menzies would be horrified to learn how deeply the LNP had ingratiated itself to a communist regime - probably not the Labor Party though. The fact that they've sold out to communism isn't surprising in the least.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Rabobank analyst Michael Every says that it's very unlikely that a US/China trade deal will happen any time soon - as on ZeroHedge;

...To our mind remarks from Trump imply that he expects China to address other crucial issues: intellectual property theft, barriers to entry for foreign companies and generous subsidies for state companies. We remain sceptical about a major breakthrough in the trade war in the coming months. China would have to change its economic model to address those issues – something that Beijing is not prepared to do.

That's the crux of the problem really isn't it - regardless of the threat of tariffs China cannot possibly change the way they do business because their entire way of doing things is predicated on hybrid state/private ownership, soft loans and pseudo free-markets. To expect them to convert to an entirely 'western' way of doing things is nigh on impossible.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting to see if the RBA will cut to record lows tomorrow - in the meantime CoreLogic says residential property prices have surged in Sydney and Melbourne 1.7% in each city - extremely strong growth for just one month - incredible in fact. Morrison's attempts to pour petrol on the property fire have have instantaneous results, obviously.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Hello All,

It should also be remembered that China has never been a democracy, it has always been an authoritarian State where centralized power has been the norm, occasionally interspersed with central collapse and a reversion to regional warlordism, until an effective central government re-emerged.

The CPC controlled People's Republic of China is the current iteration of this historical process, and it has been the effective government of China since 1949 when it defeated the blatantly corrupt and incompetent Kuomingtang Administration, which was also an authoritarian regime ( supported by Stalin ). ( It should also be pointed out that two KMT armies defected to the Reds after the outbreak of Civil War following Japan's collapse, which would seem to indicate that even they decided that the KMT was no longer a viable entity.

...
Regards, Radioman.
If I was to try and summarise what's wrong with that position to both you and Dangersdan - the CCP is not legitimate as long as it refuses to have a separate judiciary and a rule of law - end of story. They can't just keep robbing the rest of of world for intellectual capital forever and judging by their latest set of economic figures it isn't working any more anyway.

Bob Menzies would be horrified to learn how deeply the LNP had ingratiated itself to a communist regime - probably not the Labor Party though. The fact that they've sold out to communism isn't surprising in the least.
don_dunstan
The UN disagrees after all its on the Security council, Perhaps you still believe Taiwan's government is the rightful regime of the mainland all these years later?Laughing Still the largest economy in the world and you can't change it and they are ultimately going to surpass your beloved USA and dominate the world. The CCP Came to power as a result of the Pro Western Kuomintang Government's Utter incompetence and unpopularity, there's always a reason for it.  People in the US Government knew how likely after the second world war that china would go red, they were ignored and blamed for seemingly allowing China to 'fall to the Reds'. The CCP Ain't going away, that's reality, if you think otherwise you're living in fantasyland.

I Would Highly Doubt that Labor have 'sold out to communism' as that is an oxymoron in itself and more classic Reds under the Bed hysteria. If you're referring to the Donations and Sam Dastyari's scandal I'd say more along the lines of attempts to influence politics here. Please don, you making Labor sound way cooler and radical then they actually are.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interest rates cut to a record low of 0.75% - News.com.au;

At its October meeting on Tuesday, the Reserve Bank of Australia made the widely expected decision to drop the rate to 0.75 per cent — the third time it has wiped 25 basis points off since June.

And the cuts are expected to keep coming from Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe, with another reduction predicted this year and again at the beginning of 2020.

“Interest rates are very low around the world and further monetary easing is widely expected, as central banks respond to the persistent downside risks to the global economy and subdued inflation,” he said in his statement.

“The board took the decision to lower interest rates further today to support employment and income growth and to provide greater confidence that inflation will be consistent with the medium-term target.

“The economy still has spare capacity and lower interest rates will help make inroads into that.

If the economy is really so good then why the need to keep cutting rates? Zero or negative interest rates really can't be that far away - so get your savings out of the bank and put it under the mattress - it'll be safer there!

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