It's the economy, stupid!

 
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Got it - blame the elitists at the UN Razz
You could see Scotty boy getting excited at the zeitgeist of TRUMP when he was opening that Visy Board factory with Anthony Pratt and Trump in the United States. "We're all about JOBS" he cried.

This is just a continuation of what he perceived as the successful nationalist style that Trump has been pushing - and ScoMo wants IN. The problem is that there's a pretty large autocracy who won't be happy to hear some of the things that he said at the Lowy Institute last night - especially the bit about protecting our national interest in all situations.

Don't want our minions growing a spine all the sudden do we...
don_dunstan
Make -whatever-  Great Again is just spin.
It's meant to retain the xenophobic vote when nothing much actually changes. These Republican/LNP/Conservative pollies want the average mug to believe some foreigner controlled conspiracy is to blame for all that's wrong and costing them jobs under the banner of globalisation.
In reality the 'let them eat cake' side of politics has no hesitation in sacrificing local jobs for a trade deal or anything else if it's profitable for their benefactors. It's in their DNA Razz

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Make -whatever-  Great Again is just spin.
It's meant to retain the xenophobic vote when nothing much actually changes. These Republican/LNP/Conservative pollies want the average mug to believe some foreigner controlled conspiracy is to blame for all that's wrong and costing them jobs under the banner of globalisation.
In reality the 'let them eat cake' side of politics has no hesitation in sacrificing local jobs for a trade deal or anything else if it's profitable for their benefactors. It's in their DNA Razz
Groundrelay
Doesn't the Labor Party have the exact same policy? In fact Hawke admitted that he had lied to the Australian people in a conversation with John Hewson after he'd lost the 1993 election - he told Hewson that he shouldn't have been so honest with releasing Fightback! before the election and should have just kept it hidden until after he was elected just as he did with the aggressive tariff cuts and privatisations after 1983.

The problem is that there's fundamentally no difference between either side of politics in Australia - doesn't matter which side of the duopoly you vote for, you'll get more of the same.

The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling. Greg Combet? Works for Santos now. Craig Emerson? China-Australia Business Council. John Dawkins? Also works for the carbon-making energy industry. The worst of all was Bob Hawke; sold his soul to the uranium enrichment and nuclear waste storage lobby - and Paul Keating, now on the board of a Chinese government investment bank buying up Australia.

How are any of these people any different to the LNP?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The Admiralty and now the French contractors have let the cat out of the bag: The new submarine contract does not include the maintenance of the fleet which is being moved to Fremantle. From the ABC:

Naval Group, who were chosen in 2016 to build Australia's future submarines, gave a private briefing on the $50 billion program to a group of French Senators visiting Adelaide last month.

To mark the occasion, Naval Group Australia — the local subsidiary of France's Naval Group — tweeted a series of photographs that included a partial glimpse of a map showing the proposed site for the submarine construction yard ("SCY").

The now-deleted image appeared to confirm planning was underway to build the new submarines at Adelaide's Osborne North precinct, meaning maintenance work on the current Collins Class fleet would likely have to move to Western Australia.

However, Defence and the Federal Government have consistently argued that no decision has yet been made on precisely where the Attack-class boats will be built, or where "full cycle docking" for the Collins Fleet will occur after 2024.

As I said earlier there's only so much government pork to go around so I guess Western Australia has a reasonable expectation that they should get some too. Looks like we're all beggars at the Commonwealth table now, fighting over the crumbs of defense contracts just like the various cities in the United States do.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Pretty strong evidence of a two-speed economy in Australia right here: CoreLogic daily index says that Sydney and Melbourne's housing markets have both turned around something like 4% each in the space of a three months - incredible. Brisbane/SEQ is has recovered almost a full percent however both Adelaide and Perth are still negative. Perth in fact is still down 9% year-on-year and frankly you'd have to be pretty worried if you were an investor there because the losses are getting close to 20% since the recent peak in 2016.

We have a two-speed Australian economy clearly reflected in increasing wealth/debt where the finance/insurance/infrastructure booms are boosting houses - that combined with aggressive interest rate cutting by the RBA. We've got that enormous real estate fuelled bit on the east coast and the rest of us are just camping out as that warm-hearted and inclusive Paul Keating once eloquently put it. The rest of Australia isn't participating in the real-estate bubble charging ahead now that interest rates have been slashed to post-war low. Again adds to my assertion on another thread that the rest of the nation needs to put walls around those two places and tell them to feed and pay for themselves.

And overall you'd have to seriously wonder why the government/RBA thinks concentrating all the wealth in our two biggest cities is such a wonderful idea - it ain't helping anyone else in Australia. Hide you cash under your mattresses, people - this is going to get rough...
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
And overall you'd have to seriously wonder why the government/RBA thinks concentrating all the wealth in our two biggest cities is such a wonderful idea - it ain't helping anyone else in Australia.
don_dunstan
Simples. It's where most of them live.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
And overall you'd have to seriously wonder why the government/RBA thinks concentrating all the wealth in our two biggest cities is such a wonderful idea - it ain't helping anyone else in Australia.
Simples. It's where most of them live.
DirtyBallast
10,000,000 in Sydney and Melbourne; let's be generous and add Canberra, Geelong, Newcastle, Wollongong and that's another 1.5 million. Not even half the nation considering there's 25.5 million of us in total (2018 census).
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
10,000,000 in Sydney and Melbourne; let's be generous and add Canberra, Geelong, Newcastle, Wollongong and that's another 1.5 million. Not even half the nation considering there's 25.5 million of us in total (2018 census).
"don_dunstan"
Yeah; but you don't expect pollies to know small details like that do you?  Our politicians are living proof that ignorance is bliss.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
10,000,000 in Sydney and Melbourne; let's be generous and add Canberra, Geelong, Newcastle, Wollongong and that's another 1.5 million. Not even half the nation considering there's 25.5 million of us in total (2018 census).
Yeah; but you don't expect pollies to know small details like that do you?  Our politicians are living proof that ignorance is bliss.
Valvegear
In all seriousness we have a water problem in this country caused by historical unreliable rainfall; my rainwater tanks are empty in Adelaide right now although we've had a relatively average winter. Not so across NSW & QLD where there's persistent drought. My own state of SA has broken numerous dry-land farmers for 180 years. My wish is that I had larger rainwater tanks because I've had more than adequate rainfall here over winter but not the capacity to store it all for the stonking hot dry months ahead.

We certainly don't have the capacity here on the Adelaide plains for many more people than we already have here - we're already reliant on the generosity of QLD cotton farmers releasing enough water to fill our dams from - and yet the plan is to pack us with a million more people - just because.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Some media-savvy 'business leader' says the bleeding obvious - the education and training system simply isn't pumping out wanted or in-demand graduates - News.com.au;

Provocative chief executive Matt Barrie says Australia’s education system is a “basket case” and is the main contributor to the country’s “completely cactus” economy.

The tech entrepreneur and multi-millionaire blames the deterioration of Australian manufacturing output on what he calls an ancient education system where overachieving students are pushed into medicine and law while participation in electrical engineering and computer science dwindles.

“That’s why there’s no productivity because we’re producing people to serve cups of coffee and serve avocado on toast to each other,” Mr Barrie said...

...“We’ve got to fix the secondary school system, which is an 18th century relic training people for jobs that don’t exist.”

Mr Barrie told news.com.au a more productive population would bump-up wage growth.

“If you’re going to have high wages you need to be high value producing in the value chain. You can’t be serving people a couple of cups of coffee and expect high wages.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
overachieving students are pushed into medicine
don_dunstan
Is there an over supply of doctors?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
overachieving students are pushed into medicine
Is there an over supply of doctors?
Groundrelay
No obviously not but because the high achievers get pushed into that field it leaves the numpties for things like teaching/education.

His fundamental point about the education system not producing fit-for-purpose is true; there's a million people in post-secondary education at any one time. There should be no need for any skilled visa system whatsoever if it was working the way it should.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling.
don_dunstan
I never mentioned Labor but still managed to get you worked up. You're definitely one of those "I'll never vote Labor again" callers on ratbag radio Razz

How are any of these people any different to the LNP?
don_dunstan
Two areas that matter for me, wages and health. Without fail the LNP sides with business in national wage cases. They have little interest in workers rights, wage theft and exploitation of migrant workers. As for health care they fundamentally hate Medicare and pour billions into subsidising a profit driven private system whilst the public system is struggling to continue to do the heavy lifting.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling.
I never mentioned Labor but still managed to get you worked up. You're definitely one of those "I'll never vote Labor again" callers on ratbag radio Razz
Groundrelay
Well I really don't understand why there isn't more anger from the traditional working class about the enormous list of transgressions and betrayals. Starting with the Accord I and Accord II and stretching all the way to Rudd/Gillard/Rudd's total do-nothing attitude and complete capture by big business.
Two areas that matter for me, wages and health. Without fail the LNP sides with business in national wage cases. They have little interest in workers rights, wage theft and exploitation of migrant workers. As for health care they fundamentally hate Medicare and pour billions into subsidising a profit driven private system whilst the public system is struggling to continue to do the heavy lifting.
Groumrelay
Rudd/Gillard/Rudd did nothing - zip - to address the issues of wage theft in hospitality and retail - they sat on their hands for the entire term of their collectively incompetent administration and even printed 'skilled' visas for hospitality like they were confetti. Hell, Gillard even let Hungry Jacks and KFC bring in Nepalese workers on 'skilled' visas - what a betrayal of a traditional means of entry for young people into the Aussie labour market; that single failure to protect Aussie workers encapsulates the total betrayal of the Australian people by the so-called Labor Party - more so than any of their other pro-Tory agenda.

Don't get me wrong; the LNP aren't worth voting for - agreed. But voting Labor accomplishes nothing either; just more tokenistic welfare programs for the vast 2+ million of under- and un-employed Australians out there while they try and suck up to inner city chardonnay set with lip service to this stupid fad of anti-carbon dioxide. They don't give a damn about that underclass of Aussies and that's why they comprehensively failed to win at the last "un-losable" election. Serve them right - I hope they spend another generation in the political wilderness until they can at least come up with something that doesn't make life harder for the rapidly disappearing middle.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Don't get me wrong; the LNP aren't worth voting for - agreed. But voting Labor accomplishes nothing either;
... I hope they spend another generation in the political wilderness until they can at least come up with something that doesn't make life harder for the rapidly disappearing middle.
don_dunstan
Which keeps the LNP in power which floats your boat. That's my gripe with the "Never vote Labor again" lot.
I have no issue with anyone who votes Liberal because it looks after them (can't understand why anyone votes National though). As one of the aspirational most of my circle vote for them. I worked my way from the wrong side of the ledger so my social values aren't always in sync with theirs'. Unfortunately the Libs are becoming less liberal and more reactionary than ever which sits uncomfortably with me.

You're so concerned about working masses yet ignore the legislative history of both sides since 1972, and just as importantly what they opposed. Most recent examples being opposition to a Banking Royal Commission and cutting penalty rates. Understand the ideology and vote accordingly.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Don't get me wrong; the LNP aren't worth voting for - agreed. But voting Labor accomplishes nothing either;
... I hope they spend another generation in the political wilderness until they can at least come up with something that doesn't make life harder for the rapidly disappearing middle.
Which keeps the LNP in power which floats your boat. That's my gripe with the "Never vote Labor again" lot.
I have no issue with anyone who votes Liberal because it looks after them (can't understand why anyone votes National though). As one of the aspirational most of my circle vote for them. I worked my way from the wrong side of the ledger so my social values aren't always in sync with theirs'. Unfortunately the Libs are becoming less liberal and more reactionary than ever which sits uncomfortably with me.

You're so concerned about working masses yet ignore the legislative history of both sides since 1972, and just as importantly what they opposed. Most recent examples being opposition to a Banking Royal Commission and cutting penalty rates. Understand the ideology and vote accordingly.
Groundrelay
No - keeping the LNP in power doesn't 'float my boat'; it's not about that. It's about the fact that there is so very little difference between the Labor and LNP policies on so very many issues that it's simply not worth voting Labor.

You cite the example of the abolition of penalty rates: The real story here is that (as Fair Work Australia recently found) almost nobody working in hospitality is getting award rates anyway. And that situation was aided and abetted by the Labor Party who have kept the unilateral policy of 1.6% population growth (400,000 or so new residents) every single year. So the Labor Party opposes the abolition of penalty rates as a kind of virtue-signalling when in reality it's meaningless for the vast majority who work in that sector not getting award anyway.

The Banking Royal Commission: Nothing happened as a result of it anyway, what was the purpose? Again more posturing from Bill Shorten about going after the 'big end of town' but ultimately no action.

Even worse than the LNP is the infiltration of the Labor Party by the Chinese Communist Party: Even yesterday leading factional lefty Kim Carr was praising the virtues of a totalitarian regime that imprisons millions just because they're Muslim. Is he even aware of that or is it just something we need to accept is part of the communist yoke? The Labor Party is far too soft on terrorism too: Kristina Keneally was telling us that we should bring home those radicalised ISIS brides because they're just been naughty girls and it's time for them to come home. Is she serious? Those women represent a really clear danger to the Australian people and she's telling the Australian government that we have an obligation to repatriate them - why don't we resettle them next door to her family if she's so keen on them! Then on the other hand you have Senator Penny Wong telling us that the LNP are not going far enough with 'free trade' and we need to go further - she should try coming to Elizabeth and lecturing the unemployed out there that more 'free trade' is the answer.

The Labor Party has no consistent ideology, no purpose for existing. All they can offer Australia is a grab-bag of concessions, more welfare for the people they helped make unemployed, more kow-towing to communist China and more mis-directly touchy-feeling humanism.

If you seriously think that they're a good alternative government then by all means keep voting for them. And I'll keep voting for anyone but the two majors.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling.
"don_dunstan"
I'll let some of your many comments go unanswered, but where the hell did that idea come from? What are you smoking, Don? Giving a serve to the incumbents does not equal defending Labor. I don't defend any Party, simply because I don't trust any of them. If any politician, regardless of Party, deserves a pat on the back, I'll give it. Same applies to a kick in the slats.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling.
I'll let some of your many comments go unanswered, but where the hell did that idea come from? What are you smoking, Don? Giving a serve to the incumbents does not equal defending Labor. I don't defend any Party, simply because I don't trust any of them. If any politician, regardless of Party, deserves a pat on the back, I'll give it. Same applies to a kick in the slats.
Valvegear
Okay Valvegear, I'll give you that. Sorry if I lumped you in with the perpetual Labor cheer squad but you have to admit their performance recently has been totally dismal. They form no serious opposition to the LNP agenda; in many places they're totally bipartisan with them anyway. Any wonder they lost the un-losable election.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It's interesting to look back over the Labor Party.

Since Chifley, there have only been three ALP Leaders with what one might call a commanding presence - Whitlam, Hawke and Keating. Note I say only " commanding presence" - not for one minute do I endorse any or all of their actions.

Like it or not; Australia has become "Leadercentric" if I may coin a word, and the ALP has not coped with it.  Shorten was not one to stop people in their tracks, and Albanese has all the charisma of last week's rice pudding. ScoMo is not the greatest public figure, but he played Shorten off a break.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's interesting to look back over the Labor Party.

Since Chifley, there have only been three ALP Leaders with what one might call a commanding presence - Whitlam, Hawke and Keating. Note I say only " commanding presence" - not for one minute do I endorse any or all of their actions.

Like it or not; Australia has become "Leadercentric" if I may coin a word, and the ALP has not coped with it.  Shorten was not one to stop people in their tracks, and Albanese has all the charisma of last week's rice pudding. ScoMo is not the greatest public figure, but he played Shorten off a break.
Valvegear
There's an long list of reasons not the least of which has been the lack of leadership. Rudd wasn't very good but Gillard was even worse; gave in to pressure from the extremely rich mining magnates to scuttle a once-in-a-century windfall from iron ore; didn't protect manufacturing from the temporarily stupidly high dollar. She even gave Hungry Jacks and KFC visas to bring in skilled people from Nepal and India to staff their restaurants. Nothing she ever did made life for the workers any easier and yet they still laud her as a hero because she was the first woman.

I fear for the future of Aussie kids because of all the incredible mis-management this country has had since Hawke/Keating and exacerbated by every administration since. Ordinary school leavers not academically inclined are at the bleeding edge of competition for work; under-employment is the most significant challenge because most jobs being generated (NDIS for example) don't pay enough to keep food on the table for many: Interesting discussion here on the ABC.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

It's interesting to look back over the Labor Party.

Since Chifley, there have only been three ALP Leaders with what one might call a commanding presence - Whitlam, Hawke and Keating. Note I say only " commanding presence" - not for one minute do I endorse any or all of their actions.

Like it or not; Australia has become "Leadercentric" if I may coin a word, and the ALP has not coped with it.  Shorten was not one to stop people in their tracks, and Albanese has all the charisma of last week's rice pudding. ScoMo is not the greatest public figure, but he played Shorten off a break.
There's an long list of reasons not the least of which has been the lack of leadership. Rudd wasn't very good but Gillard was even worse; gave in to pressure from the extremely rich mining magnates to scuttle a once-in-a-century windfall from iron ore; didn't protect manufacturing from the temporarily stupidly high dollar. She even gave Hungry Jacks and KFC visas to bring in skilled people from Nepal and India to staff their restaurants. Nothing she ever did made life for the workers any easier and yet they still laud her as a hero because she was the first woman.

I fear for the future of Aussie kids because of all the incredible mis-management this country has had since Hawke/Keating and exacerbated by every administration since. Ordinary school leavers not academically inclined are at the bleeding edge of competition for work; under-employment is the most significant challenge because most jobs being generated (NDIS for example) don't pay enough to keep food on the table for many: Interesting discussion here on the ABC.
don_dunstan
In what way did Gillard scuttle a once in a century windfall from iron ore. I thought Howard did that by giving the windfall away via middle class welfare.

I am amused by your obsession with poor workers but I as a CSA working for NSW Trains, post retirement manage to pull in $100K each year. The poor workers manage to have enough dosh to throw around on houses, new cars and endless household appliance, not to forget optional items like boats, jet skis etc.

I know there are folks doing it tough living on the pension, but the majority are not. Having a decent education does greatly enhance your job and income prospects. Too much doom and gloom Don.  I know Adelaide is a basket case but NSW aint like it.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The fact that you and Valvegear are still here defending the repulsive grubs of the Labor Party is appalling.
I'll let some of your many comments go unanswered, but where the hell did that idea come from? What are you smoking, Don? Giving a serve to the incumbents does not equal defending Labor. I don't defend any Party, simply because I don't trust any of them. If any politician, regardless of Party, deserves a pat on the back, I'll give it. Same applies to a kick in the slats.
Valvegear
You gotta get out of the way when Don goes both barrels with his anti-Labor shot gun.

I made a observation about underlying policies of pro-business parties such as Republicans / LNP /Conservative and Don did what Don does. As always he bangs away volumes attacking Labor with SFA directed at the LNP. On that basis they can't be the same or who is he trying to kid? A case of thou doth protest too much Razz

Bottom line, the country will be governed by either the Coalition or Labor. When Don votes for some minor party of the clueless and assorted racist/bigots that'll work for him because they'll back the Coalition. I see little point voting Green as Labor would mostly get their support anyway. It's pretty much academic as most voters cannot change a government as they're stuck in a safe seat.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
In what way did Gillard scuttle a once in a century windfall from iron ore. I thought Howard did that by giving the windfall away via middle class welfare.

I am amused by your obsession with poor workers but I as a CSA working for NSW Trains, post retirement manage to pull in $100K each year. The poor workers manage to have enough dosh to throw around on houses, new cars and endless household appliance, not to forget optional items like boats, jet skis etc.

I know there are folks doing it tough living on the pension, but the majority are not. Having a decent education does greatly enhance your job and income prospects. Too much doom and gloom Don.  I know Adelaide is a basket case but NSW aint like it.
nswtrains
Gillard scrapped the Rudd-initiated Minerals Resource Rent Tax which was designed to capture some of the huge windfall that iron ore was experiencing at that time. Some people interpret her installation as partly a coup initiated by the mining industry.

You were extremely lucky to have hit the jackpot with superannuation and/or pension - I bet the job you held for SRA or Sydney Trains doesn't exist any longer. You seem to be saying "I'm alright Jack", but what about the younger generation having to secure their own piece of the Aussie dream?

So NSW is doing well, so glad to hear it. I wouldn't live in that overpriced bung-hole Sydney if you paid me a fortune.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You gotta get out of the way when Don goes both barrels with his anti-Labor shot gun.

I made a observation about underlying policies of pro-business parties such as Republicans / LNP /Conservative and Don did what Don does. As always he bangs away volumes attacking Labor with SFA directed at the LNP. On that basis they can't be the same or who is he trying to kid? A case of thou doth protest too much Razz

Bottom line, the country will be governed by either the Coalition or Labor. When Don votes for some minor party of the clueless and assorted racist/bigots that'll work for him because they'll back the Coalition. I see little point voting Green as Labor would mostly get their support anyway. It's pretty much academic as most voters cannot change a government as they're stuck in a safe seat.
Groundrelay
Hey at least Pauline and Jackie have managed to get some concessions out of legislation recently, can you point to anyone else doing a good job in the senate? Maybe Rex Patrick.

Gotta vote for the clueless assorted racists and bigots... who else is there to vote for in South Australia? Penny Wong? Ha, she's practically a Liberal senator she's so pro-"free trade" and all that other right wing rubbish.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Rex Patrick is a worthless all he does is whinge about submarine maintenance - I am a South Australian potentially employable in that industry, but just move it to WA. Of course maintenance being conducted near (or even at) their home base is the most sensible and expedient option.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Rex Patrick is a worthless all he does is whinge about submarine maintenance - I am a South Australian potentially employable in that industry, but just move it to WA. Of course maintenance being conducted near (or even at) their home base is the most sensible and expedient option.
Aaron
My understanding is that the Admiralty and the French contractors have already let the cat out of the bag and the maintenance is going to be moved to Fremantle where the subs are actually based.

It's a big government defense contract, Aaron, all that pork has to be shared among the states.

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