It's the economy, stupid!

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Already kinda knew that - they've dropped to number 11 on the sales charts and have just had their lowest ever sales, a whole fifty percent down from last year - Australians just don't want to buy a GM while it carries a meaningless Holden badge. Personally I don't know why they bothered to keep the Holden badge, I think its actually worked against them re-branding cars from all over the world and pretending that they have anything at all to do with Australia.

Car sales in Australia in general are in the toilet, we just had our lowest sales of new cars in about twenty-something years and down 10% overall from last year.

Sponsored advertisement

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Already kinda knew that - they've dropped to number 11 on the sales charts and have just had their lowest ever sales, a whole fifty percent down from last year - Australians just don't want to buy a GM while it carries a meaningless Holden badge. Personally I don't know why they bothered to keep the Holden badge, I think its actually worked against them re-branding cars from all over the world and pretending that they have anything at all to do with Australia.

Car sales in Australia in general are in the toilet, we just had our lowest sales of new cars in about twenty-something years and down 10% overall from last year.
don_dunstan
Over the next 5-10 years there are a number of car brands expected to disappear as they fail to move down the EV path and compete.

For reasons only known to GM, they withdrew the EV Bolt from the EU market despite 1000's of order from Norway alone. Not long after, when Hyundai put their Ioniq on the table, the Norwegians bought out the entire year quota assigned to Norway in days.  

The Peugeot CEO said during the announcement of the merger with Fiat-Crystler  it was about joining the limited available resources in design of EV's and automation. Car companies of the future will not be car companies of today, they will be mobility solution providers and this doesn't mean getting behind something with a steering wheel that you even own.

Electric cars do not need the extensive R&D engine and drive train teams, nor the maintenance that goes with them, which is a key reason for many people choosing cars today and large revenue stream for car companies. Electric motor and battery technology is mostly supplied by others so what does this leave the car companies to compete with? Shape, experience, functionality, bells and whistles. Even with advanced petrol engines we have moved into an age where almost no one lifts the bonnet anymore nor would know what they are looking at if they did. EV's take us to the mobile phone equivalent of cars. Buy, use it, charge it, replace it!

So yes, friends and I had a discussion on this recently and the general consensus was Holden/GM will likely fold or at least exit the passenger vehicle industry, even their big 4x4's are not selling that great and if they miss the attack by EV's F150, Tesla and Rivian they are toast. Factoring in the Chinese tiger and yes the expect to see a number of established players leave the industry and/or merge.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

There's a good chance Holden will be gone within the next 12 months.  Buick in the States have just announced they're no longer going to sell the Regal (which is based on the Opel Insignia and which we get as the Commodore).

Their other models have failed to excite the market so I fear it'll be curtains earlier than later.

As for EVs, it's very difficult for them to have an AM radio due to RF interference. No good if you live or drive in many rural areas.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Holden's problem is a perceived lack of quality. They have had two popular models that turned out to have poor reliability, the Australian engined Astra (I had one and sold it at 60,000km due to it being unreliable) and the Captiva with diesel engine problems. Poor manufacturer and dealer response hasn't helped. The other problem is that their advertising for the 4WD models showed vehicles being driven irresponsibly and that didn't appeal to the mainstream 4WDers.
The brand is now tainted and being American lacks the corporate guts to generate a change in perception, as Kia did with their ground breaking 7 year warranty to back their focus on quality. As someone said to me the other day, "if you want a car that is reliable, buy either a Japanese or Korean vehicle".
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There's a good chance Holden will be gone within the next 12 months.  Buick in the States have just announced they're no longer going to sell the Regal (which is based on the Opel Insignia and which we get as the Commodore).

Their other models have failed to excite the market so I fear it'll be curtains earlier than later.

As for EVs, it's very difficult for them to have an AM radio due to RF interference. No good if you live or drive in many rural areas.
Carnot
Holden Dealers must be quickly looking to picking other brands if not already done so.

Didn't know about the AM radio issue, realistically not a big issue and maybe it will just force the govt to kill off AM radio once and for all by rolling out FM radio to replace as has been done partially already, just laziness has failed to complete it. Podcast and live streaming can also be used.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Holden's problem is a perceived lack of quality. They have had two popular models that turned out to have poor reliability, the Australian engined Astra (I had one and sold it at 60,000km due to it being unreliable) and the Captiva with diesel engine problems. Poor manufacturer and dealer response hasn't helped. The other problem is that their advertising for the 4WD models showed vehicles being driven irresponsibly and that didn't appeal to the mainstream 4WDers.
The brand is now tainted and being American lacks the corporate guts to generate a change in perception, as Kia did with their ground breaking 7 year warranty to back their focus on quality. As someone said to me the other day, "if you want a car that is reliable, buy either a Japanese or Korean vehicle".
neillfarmer
The brand is dying, its parent company doesn't know how to succeed outside the US anymore and even struggling in the US for its survival. For too long in Oz they relied on the sales of mostly just one car and they killed it off, although it too was dying. The Colorado is struggling against the Hilux, Ranger and others.

I agree they will likely call it quits in near future.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

There's a good chance Holden will be gone within the next 12 months.  Buick in the States have just announced they're no longer going to sell the Regal (which is based on the Opel Insignia and which we get as the Commodore).

Their other models have failed to excite the market so I fear it'll be curtains earlier than later.

As for EVs, it's very difficult for them to have an AM radio due to RF interference. No good if you live or drive in many rural areas.
Holden Dealers must be quickly looking to picking other brands if not already done so.

Didn't know about the AM radio issue, realistically not a big issue and maybe it will just force the govt to kill off AM radio once and for all by rolling out FM radio to replace as has been done partially already, just laziness has failed to complete it. Podcast and live streaming can also be used.
RTT_Rules
I think quite a few Holden dealerships have already closed.  The most intriguing idea mentioned in this American article is for Holden to be "Nationalised".  Make of that what you will!!!  https://jalopnik.com/holdens-future-remains-bleak-1840201386

Incidentally, that nearly happened 11 years ago during the GM Bankruptcy crisis.  And the Elizabeth plant could've been making EVs instead with Kevin Rudd cash handouts.  And no, I'm not joking.

The AM radio issue is a bit like trying to listen to 3AW while in a car next to a tram in Melbourne....
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I think quite a few Holden dealerships have already closed.  The most intriguing idea mentioned in this American article is for Holden to be "Nationalised".  Make of that what you will!!!  https://jalopnik.com/holdens-future-remains-bleak-1840201386

Incidentally, that nearly happened 11 years ago during the GM Bankruptcy crisis.  And the Elizabeth plant could've been making EVs instead with Kevin Rudd cash handouts.  And no, I'm not joking.

The AM radio issue is a bit like trying to listen to 3AW while in a car next to a tram in Melbourne....
Carnot
Labor's absolute incompetence during the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years led to the demise of the car industry - it was actually pretty healthy before they got into office.

More signs today that we're sliding into recession - retail sales figures for the last quarter have pulled a big, fat zero while the September quarter actually declined. Consumers are on strike and are not spending money despite Josh Frydenburg's tax refund cash splash. I'm astonished the RBA didn't cut again the other day, we're almost certain to hit technical recession early next year.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I think quite a few Holden dealerships have already closed.  The most intriguing idea mentioned in this American article is for Holden to be "Nationalised".  Make of that what you will!!!  https://jalopnik.com/holdens-future-remains-bleak-1840201386

Incidentally, that nearly happened 11 years ago during the GM Bankruptcy crisis.  And the Elizabeth plant could've been making EVs instead with Kevin Rudd cash handouts.  And no, I'm not joking.

The AM radio issue is a bit like trying to listen to 3AW while in a car next to a tram in Melbourne....
Carnot
Ahh "Nationalisation", the war cry of any great socialist dictator trying to appease to the uneducated masses with a success rate of near zero outside the usual historic govt monopolies.

Sounds like another reason to close down this out of date form of radio transmission, certainly from the cities and populated rural areas.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Labor's absolute incompetence during the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years led to the demise of the car industry - it was actually pretty healthy before they got into office.

More signs today that we're sliding into recession - retail sales figures for the last quarter have pulled a big, fat zero while the September quarter actually declined. Consumers are on strike and are not spending money despite Josh Frydenburg's tax refund cash splash. I'm astonished the RBA didn't cut again the other day, we're almost certain to hit technical recession early next year.
don_dunstan
It was healthy because enough Australia's liked to drive one of 4 different cars, two of which were exported in some numbers and the dollar was affordable.

Today, Australian's like to drive very different cars and unless you are exporting then your assembly line is not sustainable. Car manufacturing/assembly is dying in developed countries as its pretty basic technology that you don't need to pay $100kpa someone to do. So unless you have sufficient domestic demand its all over as others will compete with you on exports.  

USA has pretty much loosing its sedan assembly plants
UK has lost many assembly lines
Belgim has joined Australia in importing
Germany only makes higher end cars and relies heavily on brand reputation for local support and external sales.
Sweden, gone

Overall Australians were our own worst enemy is failing to support the local industry, not buying and bad mouthing quality to others ti encourage them not to buy (Friend migrated to Oz in 2011, his fellow workers down him not to buy anything made in Oz).

RBA is afraid of housing price bubble, again which has picked up and typically a leading indicator of a growing economy,.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

One has to remember too that the Aussie dollar was more-or-less at parity with the $US which meant imports were cheap and the local product struggled in overseas markets.

As for AM radio - most cars don't have DAB even in the Capital cities and many listeners of Alan J on 2GB in Sydney wouldn't be able to work out how to stream it via Internet thru their phone (or have the monthly data anyway).  Just dial up 873 KHz and there's AJ!  Simples.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
One has to remember too that the Aussie dollar was more-or-less at parity with the $US which meant imports were cheap and the local product struggled in overseas markets.

As for AM radio - most cars don't have DAB even in the Capital cities and many listeners of Alan J on 2GB in Sydney wouldn't be able to work out how to stream it via Internet thru their phone (or have the monthly data anyway).  Just dial up 873 KHz and there's AJ!  Simples.
Carnot
The difference being before the $A went up, we drove Commodores, Falcon's and Camry/Aurion's. The Commodore and Toyota twins were exported, the later far more but overall the big two were an Australian oddity not made elsewhere and with only limited export market. The V6 Aurion was exported in small numbers (I owned one in Dubai) and made OS usually with only a 4cyl motor, but the V6 competed against he more upper market Avalon, which was a failure when made in Oz.

After the dollar came down, the mass Aussie market had moved on to the dual cab as the house hold staple of the masses and where that wasn't the case there was usually a smaller SUV such as Rav 4, Santafe and if the more affluent areas it was more likely an Audi / VW etc. All of which are made OS to a global market and for which to be made here would be done so at a higher cost to those not made here.

Look at the global car manufacturing countries of growth, Sth Africa, Hilux, Ranger Merc-C, BMW X3, Thailand where the bulk of Australian cars come from now, Slovakia , Mexico etc.


AM radio can easily phased out, it already has in some areas as has VHF TV.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

One has to remember too that the Aussie dollar was more-or-less at parity with the $US which meant imports were cheap and the local product struggled in overseas markets.

As for AM radio - most cars don't have DAB even in the Capital cities and many listeners of Alan J on 2GB in Sydney wouldn't be able to work out how to stream it via Internet thru their phone (or have the monthly data anyway).  Just dial up 873 KHz and there's AJ!  Simples.
The difference being before the $A went up, we drove Commodores, Falcon's and Camry/Aurion's. The Commodore and Toyota twins were exported, the later far more but overall the big two were an Australian oddity not made elsewhere and with only limited export market. The V6 Aurion was exported in small numbers (I owned one in Dubai) and made OS usually with only a 4cyl motor, but the V6 competed against he more upper market Avalon, which was a failure when made in Oz.

After the dollar came down, the mass Aussie market had moved on to the dual cab as the house hold staple of the masses and where that wasn't the case there was usually a smaller SUV such as Rav 4, Santafe and if the more affluent areas it was more likely an Audi / VW etc. All of which are made OS to a global market and for which to be made here would be done so at a higher cost to those not made here.

Look at the global car manufacturing countries of growth, Sth Africa, Hilux, Ranger Merc-C, BMW X3, Thailand where the bulk of Australian cars come from now, Slovakia , Mexico etc.


AM radio can easily phased out, it already has in some areas as has VHF TV.
RTT_Rules
Metro and some regional Digital TV is still on VHF.  Analogue TV went the way of the dodo in Australia between 2010-2013.

AM radio signals can be picked up from big distances (especially the high-powered ABC ones like 3WV Horsham) - perfect for long road trips in the bush.

With car imports lately, I find it funny that some car makers are really jacking up prices to present themselves as "Premium", such as Mazda.  https://www.caradvice.com.au/811613/2020-mazda2-gets-5400-price-rise-as-facelift-hits-showrooms/

Price goes up, but sales going down just as fast....
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It was healthy because enough Australia's liked to drive one of 4 different cars, two of which were exported in some numbers ..
RTT_Rules
It died because we couldn't compete directly with places like Thailand where the standard rate for car industry workers is $6 an hour.
RBA is afraid of housing price bubble, again which has picked up and typically a leading indicator of a growing economy,.
RTT_Rules
"Growing economy"? You'll have to tell all the retailers who've seen no growth in turnover this year that the economy is growing, it'll probably be news to them. And we only have a third of the national housing market back in boom territory (Sydney and Melbourne), Brisbane is up a bit too but by and large the rest of the nation has missed out on the benefits of cutting monetary policy to its lowest ever post-WWII level. Perth is still declining making it an unbroken five years of losses now - down 7% in the last 12 months.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Metro and some regional Digital TV is still on VHF.  Analogue TV went the way of the dodo in Australia between 2010-2013.

AM radio signals can be picked up from big distances (especially the high-powered ABC ones like 3WV Horsham) - perfect for long road trips in the bush.

With car imports lately, I find it funny that some car makers are really jacking up prices to present themselves as "Premium", such as Mazda.  https://www.caradvice.com.au/811613/2020-mazda2-gets-5400-price-rise-as-facelift-hits-showrooms/

Price goes up, but sales going down just as fast....
Carnot
I was in living in Tassie during the UHF "revolution", what a cock up! They wanted to get rid of VHF channels competing for band width in FM radio bands, ie 3 - 5A. But Tassie also had channels transmitting on horizontal wave length to stop interference from Melbourne, so they went too. The switch over time was at times only days and not enough installers to fix TV antenna's.

However today there is no reason to close down the remaining VHF TV channels as few people are using them anyway and all replicated in digital UHF which most people have now.

FM radio transmitters are relatively cheap and easily installed on mobile phone and other towers. Vic is flat enough most of the state could be covered by a dozen powerful FM transmitters with 150km range.

The growth in car sales is limited to premium brands and EV's. Tesla doesn't report car sales but going by VIN numbers and import qualities all publicly available its believed the Model 3 is outselling the Camry and potentially up to 5% of the new car market.

The so called claims we could be making EV's now is BS. Which EV's who's? Who would invest to do so?
Tesla is the world leader in EV's outside China, they only just recently opened a 2nd factory outside the US in China for the Chinese market to avoid tariffs.

Other EV's
- BMW, making them in Germany
- Hyundai, Sth Korea
- Nissan Leaf, they left Australian manufacturing 25 years ago and won't be back.
- All others are made in their usual country of assembly.

And it would still not solve the issue is we would be making EV's for who? Australian's didn't buy Aussie cars before and it won't change just because its an EV.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It was healthy because enough Australia's liked to drive one of 4 different cars, two of which were exported in some numbers ..
It died because we couldn't compete directly with places like Thailand where the standard rate for car industry workers is $6 an hour.
don_dunstan
The bulk of the world's economy range of cars are made at that or less so we can stop blaming any one govt for it. Tariff's are useless unless you have a diverse range of local production an do not help exports, which is required for volumes.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It was healthy because enough Australia's liked to drive one of 4 different cars, two of which were exported in some numbers ..
It died because we couldn't compete directly with places like Thailand where the standard rate for car industry workers is $6 an hour.
The bulk of the world's economy range of cars are made at that or less so we can stop blaming any one govt for it. Tariff's are useless unless you have a diverse range of local production an do not help exports, which is required for volumes.
RTT_Rules
Okay - given. But there's some incredibly bad wage inequalities happening in Australia that have never occurred before - hospitality and retail seem to be inexorably linked with under-payment here. There's a big growth in people collecting Centrelink low income Health Care Card because they don't work enough hours to sustain themselves.

If you want a direct comparison which set the absolute polar opposite in politics - the absolute pinnacle of supremacy for Australian workers it was the Harvester Judgement (1907) - which has pretty much been progressively undermined since Hawke/Keating. Australian workers are no longer entitled to the protection of the Commonwealth to ensure they get a reasonable living wage any longer. Perhaps the Commonwealth has broken its contract with the people?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It died because we couldn't compete directly with places like Thailand where the standard rate for car industry workers is $6 an hour.
The bulk of the world's economy range of cars are made at that or less so we can stop blaming any one govt for it. Tariff's are useless unless you have a diverse range of local production an do not help exports, which is required for volumes.
Okay - given. But there's some incredibly bad wage inequalities happening in Australia that have never occurred before - hospitality and retail seem to be inexorably linked with under-payment here. There's a big growth in people collecting Centrelink low income Health Care Card because they don't work enough hours to sustain themselves.

If you want a direct comparison which set the absolute polar opposite in politics - the absolute pinnacle of supremacy for Australian workers it was the Harvester Judgement (1907) - which has pretty much been progressively undermined since Hawke/Keating. Australian workers are no longer entitled to the protection of the Commonwealth to ensure they get a reasonable living wage any longer. Perhaps the Commonwealth has broken its contract with the people?
don_dunstan
Not sure what your point is????

However if focus on the topic at hand.
- We agree modern base to mid range cars are mostly made in developing and emerging economies unless there are sufficient local demand to justify. due to lower wages of the people in those countries.

- We agree in the 80's and into mid 90's Australia was a prolific car producer because at the time it made economic sense based as Aust wages USD terms was attractive (after floating the dollar) and local demand off-setting need for mass export, tariff protection and also the Australian market was sufficiently different to keep local design and models in viable volumes.

- You state Changes made by Hawke/Keating to moderise the economy, improve working conditions, improve the ability to do business without outdated union practices, improve wages in USD terms,

- As discussed two weeks back, Australia now has the world's 2nd highest disposal income in USD terms, 2nd only to the bankers and insurers of Luxembourg

So it would seem according to your statement and data to live in a country that makes base and mid ranged priced cars is to live in a country with a lower standard of living than we enjoy today! So should we cry over the loss of the industry or celebrate the development of the Australian economy and working conditions away from that of emerging economies.

Cars today are also now much cheaper.
1995 around 600,000 cars were sold new, population 18M, 0.033 new cars per person.
2019, nearly double the number of new cars but less than 50% increase in population, 0.046 new cars per person, a 1/3 increase. So for the economy to be buying so many new cars, something must be going right!

We have also lost numerous other industries in the past also associated today with developing and emerging economies due to our wages and standard of living? i.e. textiles, now mostly reduced to high end garments, basic electronics etc etc.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Not sure what your point is????
RTT_Rules
We're going broke as a nation and our living standards are falling - and its due in part to the fact that we didn't maintain heavy manufacturing capacity here and we have no redundancy whatsoever for when the AUD falls sub-50 cents (which it will).
- You state Changes made by Hawke/Keating to moderise the economy, improve working conditions, improve the ability to do business without outdated union practices, improve wages in USD terms,
RTT_Rules
Wages stayed the same in the mid-1980's as a result of the Wages Accord but corporate profits soared to their highest levels ever. Who were Hawke and Keating working for? Certainly wasn't the workers of Australia.
As discussed two weeks back, Australia now has the world's 2nd highest disposal income in USD terms, 2nd only to the bankers and insurers of Luxembourg
RTT_Rules
Please stop dragging this rubbish statistic out. There's plenty of evidence for the opposite:
  • Real incomes have fallen since 2011
  • GDP output per person has fallen from around $90,000 in 2013 to $77,000 today. We produce much less than we used to and we're being paid less to do it.
  • Record government debt under the LNP - DOUBLED since 2013. But government expenditures account for four-fifths of the growth in the GDP so they can't stop spending or we will fall into recession instantly.
Cars today are also now much cheaper. 1995 around 600,000 cars were sold new, population 18M, 0.033 new cars per person. 2019, nearly double the number of new cars but less than 50% increase in population, 0.046 new cars per person, a 1/3 increase. So for the economy to be buying so many new cars, something must be going right! We have also lost numerous other industries in the past also associated today with developing and emerging economies due to our wages and standard of living? i.e. textiles, now mostly reduced to high end garments, basic electronics etc etc.
RTT_Rules
This is possibly one of worst, most facile and ridiculous arguments you've ever made. Cars are cheaper but we're buying more of them so we must be prosperous?


If you want to prove how wonderful our economy is then why not quit your job in Dubai and move back here and find a job - there's jobs everywhere, we all get paid millions of dollars and the streets are paved with gold.

Do it, I dare you.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
A former employee of Bet365 goes public to reveal the tactics used to get rid of successful customers - ABC

It was a bet365 promotion on the Big Bash League that made the agency attractive to Daniel Laidlaw. He's a punter who understands odds better than most.

A professional poker player by night, he treats sports betting as a hobby.

He noticed something unusual was happening with his bet365 account earlier this year. "When I tried to place my usual-sized bets, it was apparent that I could only bet to win an amount in the range of $5-10 dollars when previously, I'd be able to bet to win amounts between $1,000 and $5,000."

As a result, Mr Laidlaw now gambles with offshore betting sites that pay no tax in Australia.

Bet365 won't tell Mr Laidlaw why it restricted the size of his bets.

It turns out that there's lots of strategies for getting rid of 'problem customers' or people who win too much - they delay their bets, they shrink the amount that you can bet an eventually they just won't let you bet at all. Big-time losers get the opposite treatment - special odds, unlimited betting amounts.

Who could have known that gambling companies game the system themselves so if you're a successful bet-maker you'll eventually get kicked out - what a shock!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Not sure what your point is????
We're going broke as a nation and our living standards are falling - and its due in part to the fact that we didn't maintain heavy manufacturing capacity here and we have no redundancy whatsoever for when the AUD falls sub-50 cents (which it will).
- You state Changes made by Hawke/Keating to moderise the economy, improve working conditions, improve the ability to do business without outdated union practices, improve wages in USD terms,
Wages stayed the same in the mid-1980's as a result of the Wages Accord but corporate profits soared to their highest levels ever. Who were Hawke and Keating working for? Certainly wasn't the workers of Australia.
As discussed two weeks back, Australia now has the world's 2nd highest disposal income in USD terms, 2nd only to the bankers and insurers of Luxembourg
Please stop dragging this rubbish statistic out. There's plenty of evidence for the opposite:
  • Real incomes have fallen since 2011
  • GDP output per person has fallen from around $90,000 in 2013 to $77,000 today. We produce much less than we used to and we're being paid less to do it.
  • Record government debt under the LNP - DOUBLED since 2013. But government expenditures account for four-fifths of the growth in the GDP so they can't stop spending or we will fall into recession instantly.
Cars today are also now much cheaper. 1995 around 600,000 cars were sold new, population 18M, 0.033 new cars per person. 2019, nearly double the number of new cars but less than 50% increase in population, 0.046 new cars per person, a 1/3 increase. So for the economy to be buying so many new cars, something must be going right! We have also lost numerous other industries in the past also associated today with developing and emerging economies due to our wages and standard of living? i.e. textiles, now mostly reduced to high end garments, basic electronics etc etc.
This is possibly one of worst, most facile and ridiculous arguments you've ever made. Cars are cheaper but we're buying more of them so we must be prosperous?


If you want to prove how wonderful our economy is then why not quit your job in Dubai and move back here and find a job - there's jobs everywhere, we all get paid millions of dollars and the streets are paved with gold.

Do it, I dare you.
don_dunstan
Don falls back to his old habits of "when my data doesn't stack up, I'll go personal"

Cars, the 2nd most expensive asset most people will ever buy and usually something you don't spend money on (new ones) unless your financially secure. The sales numbers per person are rising, not evidence of higher disposal income? So why the hell are we buying more new cars than ever. Yes I acknowledge this year has seen a drop, from last years record high, although strangely EV's and premium brands are selling in record numbers.

Don states the statistic that says Aust has the 2nd highest disposal income in the world is rubbish, but then wants to quote states that are not related. So Don which is a statistic rubbish and when is it real? Quick answer only the ones from you I bet!

GDP is reported in USD and as a result of the drop in A$ of course the number goes down. Anyway, your GDP PPP is BS anyway, not sure where you made that up from, https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita-ppp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Yep, debt doubled, but as % of GDP which rose from 30% 2013 to 40% 2016 and has been stable since 2016 at 40-41%. The economy is a big ship, it takes times to correct entrenched spending without causing a recession.

If wages have stayed the same, why are labour intensive industries leaving?  

Manufacturing was never a redundancy against declining global economic conditions, in would and has been in the past the the first to lay people off as their products are exported. Yes I've worked in manufacturing/mining for 25 years.

As for your most stupidest comment to date, then why not quit your job in Dubai and move back here and find a job. No comment apart from think before you type next time.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Don v RTT; fifteen three-minute rounds before a packed house.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Don v RTT; fifteen three-minute rounds before a packed house.
Valvegear
My God, really? Don't you people have lives!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Don falls back to his old habits of "when my data doesn't stack up, I'll go personal"

...

As for your most stupidest comment to date, then why not quit your job in Dubai and move back here and find a job. No comment apart from think before you type next time.
RTT_Rules
Well for someone who loves talking the state of the Aussie economy up you don't actually believe in it enough to move back here and contribute. Because you know how hard it would be to get a good job here. Again, if things are going so very well here under our Morrison LNP government then put your money where your mouth is and move back here. With your extensive portfolio of skills I'm sure we can find a job for you in our marvellous services economy wiping bums or making coffee.
Cars, the 2nd most expensive asset most people will ever buy and usually something you don't spend money on (new ones) unless your financially secure. The sales numbers per person are rising, not evidence of higher disposal income? So why the hell are we buying more new cars than ever. Yes I acknowledge this year has seen a drop, from last years record high, although strangely EV's and premium brands are selling in record numbers.
RTT_Rules
Because recessions generally don't affect rich people and the luxury marques are usually the last to feel a slump. And car sales in Australia are 10% down from the same time last year, where did you find that 'car sales are rising' rubbish? It simply isn't true.
Don states the statistic that says Aust has the 2nd highest disposal income in the world is rubbish, but then wants to quote states that are not related. So Don which is a statistic rubbish and when is it real? Quick answer only the ones from you I bet! GDP is reported in USD and as a result of the drop in A$ of course the number goes down. Anyway, your GDP PPP is BS anyway, not sure where you made that up from, https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita-ppp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Yep, debt doubled, but as % of GDP which rose from 30% 2013 to 40% 2016 and has been stable since 2016 at 40-41%. The economy is a big ship, it takes times to correct entrenched spending without causing a recession.
RTT_Rules
This is blather not directly related to the state of the economy - and we have record private AND public debt, where do you think the money for our pretend prosperity was coming from in the last decade. I'll spell it out for you since you obviously can't work it out for yourself: It was borrowed and it will have to be paid back - with interest.

Think about this: Australians still have the very highest household debt in the world (next to Switzerland) and we also spend almost 200% of what we earn. Do you see what the potential problem is here? We're drowning in debt in this country - not just the government but the private sector and households as well. Do you seriously think that the international banking community will continue to lend us money when we've already maxed out all our lines of credit like a drug addict? We're a bad risk of default.
If wages have stayed the same, why are labour intensive industries leaving? Manufacturing was never a redundancy against declining global economic conditions, in would and has been in the past the the first to lay people off as their products are exported. Yes I've worked in manufacturing/mining for 25 years.
RTT_Rules
Because despite the falling cost of employing an Australian we still have the highest gas and electricity charges in the world. That's a fact that bears repeating because it continues to chase investment and jobs from our shores as we speak. In NSW they're about to stop making bricks locally because the cost of gas is so extortionate that its uneconomical - so now most of the bricks in NSW come from the United States. The cost of doing business here is so bad that we can't even make basic things like bricks any more because its cheaper to import them - we've become like a corrupt two-bit banana republic that sells our gas off-shore for a few cents a litre and then gouges the local population with almost the most expensive gas in the world - so bad has the corruption become in this country that we can't protect locals from being robbed by the likes of Shell, Chevron etc.

And because of the prospect of electricty becoming unreliable due to the rush to unreliable energy sources rumor has it that Tomago and Portland smelters will be shutting up shop shortly. Things are going so well with our world-beating gas and electricity prices that we've managed to chase nearly every bit of heavy industry off-shore - isn't that wonderful?

Anyway - when can we expect you back here? I'll make you an appointment with Centrelink if you like.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Anyway, your GDP PPP is BS anyway, not sure where you made that up from...
RTT_Rules
I'm trying to find the reference but the specific number was that when Abbott was elected in 2013 we had a GDP per capita of $90,000 - and now it's gone down to about $77,000 per capita. So we are much less productive now than when the Liberals first came to office over six years ago.

I've found a few other things in the meantime that support what I've said (but not that specific reference). Here's an interesting article from Smart Company two months ago:

The Australian economy is tepid, with consumer spending the weakest it’s been in 10 years, business investment shrinking, and economic growth too weak to cover population growth.

Were it not for very strong growth in export income and the biggest surge in government spending in 15 years, the economy would have shrunk...

...When account is taken of population growth, income and production per citizen have gone backwards. The last time that happened was during the financial crisis. The last time before that was during the early-1990s recession.

Household spending, which accounts for more than half of total spending, has also failed to keep pace with population growth. The inflation-adjusted growth rate of 1.4% is also the lowest since the financial crisis...

...Hardest hit in the 2018-19 financial year was spending on cars. Updated figures released at the same time as the national accounts show sales of new cars down 10% over the year to August.

Thank God for the government borrowing and spending and shoving LNG off-shore for a fraction of its worth - because otherwise we'd already be in a deep recession.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: