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V-Set replacement contract announced

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      Kset56 Station Master

    Location: Somewhere
    According to the project site, testing and commissioning is supposed to begin in early 2019 which could mean in March.

    Has anyone got any idea as to how the delivery of the first carriages are going and when we should see the first one shipped here.
    Posted: 19 Feb 2019 22:57

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      ANR Chief Commissioner

    As I write this, I am sitting in a quiet v set going to my destination in total comfort.

    I am lamenting the decision of a government that apparently represents me, to shortchange tax payers from something like the v set to the mock-up shown in the smh link from a prior post in this thread.

    The loss of directional seating that is now shown as fixed with one side cheap plastic is completely laughable. A politician that takes the voter for a mug, is unelectable.

    Even worse, the train now prepared for the regional replacement of the XPT and XPL could have been better suited for interurban duties. Could it have escaped the widening issues in the platforms and 10 tunnel deviations in the mountains?

    Who exactly did the state government consult from the voting public to end up with the atrocious result that is coming?
    Posted: 20 Feb 2019 12:03
      Kset56 Station Master

    Location: Somewhere
    Extra 42 carriages ordered bring the total number of carriages to 554.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/explosion-in-growth-extra-intercity-trains-purchased-to-cope-with-demand-20190220-p50yz8.html
    Posted: 20 Feb 2019 19:06
      SAB Chief Train Controller

    554 = 55 * 10 car trains plus one 4 car spare

    Calling it a Ugl led consortium in the article is a little erroneous, as the train is designed and built by Hyundai Rotem.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2019 19:42
      SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

    Extra 42 carriages ordered bring the total number of carriages to 554.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/explosion-in-growth-extra-intercity-trains-purchased-to-cope-with-demand-20190220-p50yz8.html
    Kset56
    For those who can't access the article because of the pay wall.

    - The NSW Government will buy an extra 42 carriages for the intercity rail fleet to help cope with a surge in demand on the South Coast line from Sydney to Wollongong and Kiama

    - The increase in the size of the new intercity fleet to 554 double-deck carriages will push up the cost of the government's contract to build and maintain the trains by $130 million to a total cost of $2.43 billion.

    - That figure does not include a new $265 million maintenance depot for the trains at Kangy Angy on the Central Coast

    - Transport Minister Andrew Constance said many of the extra 42 carriages would be ermarked for the South Coast line, which now had 1.7 million more passenger trips taken annually than 7 years ago

    - "Because we are having such an explosion in growth on the South Coast-Illawarra line, we have had to go and purchase an extra 42 carriages" he said

    - However, commuters in the Illawarra will have to wait until 2021 before the intercity trains are scheduled to be pressed into service

    - Once they do arrive, an extra service will be put on between Wollongong and Sydney during the morning and evening peak hours, resulting in a train every 15 minutes

    - Off-peak services from Wollongong will also be increased to a train every 30 minutes

    - The first of the new intercity trains being built in South Korea will begin replacing the 4 decaide old V set trains later this year on the rail line to the Central Coast and Newcastle

    - By mid 2020 the new trains are due to begin running on the Blue Mountains line to Mount Victoria, followed by Lithgow about 4 months later

    - The new intercity trains will replace about 240 V set carriages, which are scheduled to be retired by 2022.

    - The Oscar trains are also due to be refurbished before they are switched from the intercity fleet into service on Sydney's suburban rail network, which is experiencing record growth in demand.


    Also, another article here which goes into more detail

    https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/5914208/massive-boost-for-peak-hour-train-services-and-carriages-says-minister/
    Posted: 20 Feb 2019 20:10

    Last edited by SydneyCider on 20 Feb 2019 20:20; edited 1 time in total
      Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    I don't have a problem with the NIF as an upgraded Oscar, so long as the 2+2 seating is as comfortable as the V-sets.  The other issue is the fixed seating.  If the new regional train fleet has reversible seating, then why can't the NIF?  Haven't they learnt from previous customer backlash?  I fear there are too many Brits running our train system now and not enough local managers who are in more tune with customer preferences.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2019 23:29
      Kset56 Station Master

    Location: Somewhere
    The contract specifies that seating must be comparable or superior in comfort to a V-set
    Posted: 21 Feb 2019 01:14

    Last edited by Kset56 on 21 Feb 2019 01:16; edited 1 time in total
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    My level of comfort is zero when I am traveling in a backwards direction for even a short time. So how can going backwards be an improvement to the v-set?

    When I am driving in my car, I sit facing forward.

    Can't get past the first sentence....

    Fail.
    Posted: 21 Feb 2019 07:14
      NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

    Personally I prefer to sit facing backwards when travelling in V-sets. It’s a habit left over from a time when I used to commute 1000+ km a week in them, and is very relaxing. Hopefully the new trains will be configured with most seats facing backwards, and the sets will be turned at terminal stations to maintain seat orientation. I do however acknowledge that most passengers prefer reversible seating.

    By the way, my level of comfort is zero when trying to access V-set toilets, queuing in or near the vestibules, and stepping across the wide gaps that the doorways present at curved platforms.
    Posted: 21 Feb 2019 09:31
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    Sounds like one has to be backward to go forward.

    The vestibule area space in a v-set, and the interconnecting doors would have seen improvements in the new train, but the quietness, seat comfort, direction, and wall to wall carpet are hard to beat. It is night and day between a crappy Oscar and a plush V-set.

    Will the new sets have a vestibule area or will the doors open wide allowing the elements into the cabin? Who did they (not) consult for that outcome?
    Posted: 21 Feb 2019 12:59
      SAB Chief Train Controller

    The NIF is no more an upgraded Oscar than a Tangara is an upgraded Tulloch.

    Everything is different from manufacturer/ Designer through to parts and technology.

    It has 4 doors and 4 axles, two decks and is split into motor cars and trailer cars.

    Different cabs, bodyshell, bogies, traction equipment, interior fitout, loading gauge, windows, doors, floor etc.

    It’s essentially a completely new bespoke design.
    Posted: 24 Feb 2019 13:34
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    I didn't know fixed directional seating was an upgrade. Sorry to be blunt, but it sounds like a piece of plastic sheet.

    The Oscar is a mi-lemon type train. Not good at anything except short trips where pax can cram in like sardines Four car Oscars are not equal to 4 car v-sets.  The blue mountains and other interurban lines need 8 car sets. The Oscar undercarriage is audible, it lacks the boulevard suspension of the v-set, and it is hard to imagine this is the basis upon which the v-set will be replaced.

    Why don't they put this mystery bargain basement train on show in great detail? Should replace it with the XPT replacement. Why is the Gladys govt penny pinching on interurban commuters and splashing $$$ on the demolition and rebuilding of Sydney stadiums that have nothing wrong with them?
    Posted: 24 Feb 2019 19:42

    Last edited by ANR on 24 Feb 2019 22:02; edited 1 time in total
      C3765 Train Controller

    I think the tables are what is stopping the seats from being reversible so I think they should not include tables and instead have reversible seats. I don’t think it’s a big deal if they don’t have tables as commuters are doing fine without them on the V Sets and they are just gonna break.
    Posted: 24 Feb 2019 20:53
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    Table?

    Let me guess, .... there is going to be a buffet car? Will there be a stewardess going through the carriages selling hot food with a tray slung around the back of her neck (I am thinking of the former staff of the South Coast Daylight Express)  ????

    Why else would a table be needed? USB ports can be installed between the centre divider of the chairs in front. Gadget users wouldn't have their laptops or tablets on these tables as there would likely be privacy issues.

    Bacteria would be rife on these tables. Would they be cleaned at each end of the journey? Don't think so... Pax would need to carry their own spray and wipe etc.

    Why didn't we buy trains like this:

    https://www.raileurope.com.au/train/german-trains-intercity-ic-and-7370

    The lead photo in the story below, shows the stair cases going upstairs and downstairs, but there is no separation of the seating areas from the entry way. Wouldn't it look silly if the photos were actual video of Constance sitting in one of the seats, and the train was travelling in the opposite direction? The only seat worth sitting on would be the WC.

    https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/5494190/take-a-peek-inside-wollongongs-new-intercity-trains/

    These carriages should be longer. A four car carriage isn't going to carry enough pax. It is a lazy attempt at creating a bespoke long distance train.

    Has anyone been in an Oscar during peak and off-peak? There is no such thing as off-peak in these tin cans.

    King Oscar Sardines. https://www.kingoscar.com/

    Why is there so much secrecy behind this new train if the public have been adequately consulted? Can someone make an FOI request on who was consulted for the result to end up like THIS. Can an FOI request force the reveal of this suburban train?
    Posted: 24 Feb 2019 22:30

    Last edited by ANR on 24 Feb 2019 22:51; edited 4 times in total
      s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

    Location: Western Sydney, AU
    Gadget users wouldn't have their laptops or tablets on these tables as there would likely be privacy issues.
    ANR
    As a gadget user, yes, I will. My laptop gets very warm when doing XCode builds.
    Posted: 25 Feb 2019 19:43
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    Why was a train like the Bombardier Twindexx off the table as a replacement for the V set?

    It is an impressive train.The only mods I would make is directional seating, and carpet.

    Truly, this would be a game changer. Instead, we we purchased more suburban sets.



    https://youtu.be/og0RAzQ_91g
    Posted: 29 Mar 2019 21:17
      viaprojects Chief Train Controller

    Why was a train like the Bombardier Twindexx off the table as a replacement for the V set?
    ANR


    simple - platform height...
    Posted: 29 Mar 2019 23:18
      Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Why was a train like the Bombardier Twindexx off the table as a replacement for the V set?


    simple - platform height...
    viaprojects
    A shame!
    Posted: 30 Mar 2019 00:26
      C3765 Train Controller

    I have good news for any V Set lovers out there!

    The V Sets May have a brighter future than what the S Sets have had to face thanks to their aircon, comfort and less hate from the public. After the new D Sets arrive and the V Sets begin to be retired, instead of being sent to a scrap yard or becoming a house, they may be able to remain in service for another 10-15 years! Although not all of them can be saved, a lucky few may be able to start a new life, journey to new destinations and potentially get a new livery before they are retired. All of this can happen when they are sent to... India! According to a volunteer at the 2018 heritage expo, there are talks about transferring the V Sets overseas to India where they will serve lines there. Many trains from other countries have been transferred similarly, so it could indeed happen.
    Posted: 31 Mar 2019 20:58
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    I have good news for any V Set lovers out there!

    The V Sets May have a brighter future than what the S Sets have had to face thanks to their aircon, comfort and less hate from the public. After the new D Sets arrive and the V Sets begin to be retired, instead of being sent to a scrap yard or becoming a house, they may be able to remain in service for another 10-15 years! Although not all of them can be saved, a lucky few may be able to start a new life, journey to new destinations and potentially get a new livery before they are retired. All of this can happen when they are sent to... India! According to a volunteer at the 2018 heritage expo, there are talks about transferring the V Sets overseas to India where they will serve lines there. Many trains from other countries have been transferred similarly, so it could indeed happen.
    C3765
    Has India purchased other surplus trains from Australia in the past? If so, what were they and where are they used?

    I have seen a lot of pictures on the web where the pax ride on the outside of the trains, 007 style...
    Posted: 31 Mar 2019 21:09
      C3765 Train Controller

    Has India purchased other surplus trains from Australia in the past? If so, what were they and where are they used? I have seen a lot of pictures on the web where the pax ride on the outside of the trains, 007 style...
    ANR
    I think any of our past fleets such as the single deck Suburbans were too old and not suitable for such thing and I doubt any of the other countries would’ve wanted them.
    Posted: 31 Mar 2019 21:17
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    I have good news for any V Set lovers out there!

    India! According to a volunteer at the 2018 heritage expo, there are talks about transferring the V Sets overseas to India where they will serve lines there.
    The electrics will be fried as soon as pantos touch 25kv. Maybe they’ll just kick the windows out, and haul them around with diesel locos.
    UpperQuad
    That's a relief. At least more pax could then travel on the roof, as well as the sides with the pantos removed.
    Posted: 31 Mar 2019 22:40
      SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

    Recently released details (PDF) file of planned works for Springwood to Lithgow corridor. It shows various shutdown periods and works to particular stations. It seems they are planning for a late May 2020 commissioning of the upgraded Springwood to Lithgow corridor for the NIF.

    https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/New-Intercity-Fleet-BMRC-April-2019.pdf
    Posted: 07 May 2019 20:45

    Last edited by SydneyCider on 07 May 2019 20:46; edited 1 time in total
      matthewg Train Controller

    All of this can happen when they are sent to... India! According to a volunteer at the 2018 heritage expo, there are talks about transferring the V Sets overseas to India where they will serve lines there. Many trains from other countries have been transferred similarly, so it could indeed happen.
    C3765
    Why would India want our old trains (which would need a major overhaul at the minimum) and probably don't suit their infrastructure anyway?

    India is busily selling us NEW trains Why would they want our old trains in return?
    Posted: 08 May 2019 14:07
      ANR Chief Commissioner
    Posted: 08 May 2019 16:07

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