Not stopping at South Yarra means fewer trains, less often, council argues

 

News article: Not stopping at South Yarra means fewer trains, less often, council argues

Fewer trains will stop at the existing South Yarra railway station if a Metro Tunnel project bypasses the area, the Andrews government's own documents show.

  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

Just seems to me bypassing south Yarra is an error and politics is again invading the project punishing too ram and south Yarra residents. If the trains do not stop at south Yarra how then would one catch a train to Arden or the university precinct?

Not stopping at South Yarra means fewer trains, less often, council argues

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  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Moreover, given how many apartments are now under construction in South Yarra, any reduction in service would have to be regarded as counter-productive.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
  steve195 Train Controller

Just seems to me bypassing south Yarra is an error and politics is again invading the project punishing too ram and south Yarra residents. If the trains do not stop at south Yarra how then would one catch a train to Arden or the university precinct?

Not stopping at South Yarra means fewer trains, less often, council argues
MetroFemme
Uh, take the train to Flinders Street or Melbourne Central and then change? Or catch a tram down to Domain and hop on a train there?
If frequencies are 10 minutes or better, and they already are apart from early AM and late at night, there is no reason why people can't change trains.


One document, the government's 2015 Customer Outcome and Economic Assessment Report, concedes not building a railway station at South Yarra as part of the project would reduce the number of services, from a train every 75 seconds to every two minutes.
The Age
The local council and MP can and should be having a whinge about this, but do they really expect to be taken seriously when they complain about a train every 120 seconds instead of 75? Come on.
  steve195 Train Controller

May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
simstrain
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.
steve195

So essentially they are getting more services because the services being removed were essentially unusable for south yarra residents in any case. Is there a reason Sandringham couldn't be elevated to 16 instead of 12 trains an hour if needed?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Does  'fewer trains less often' equate to more trains ??? Rolling Eyes
  steve195 Train Controller

May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.

So essentially they are getting more services because the services being removed were essentially unusable for south yarra residents in any case. Is there a reason Sandringham couldn't be elevated to 16 instead of 12 trains an hour if needed?
simstrain
With regards to peak hour, that argument could be made (if you were a spin doctor), but they'll definitely lose out off peak.
Still, fewer trains is fewer trains. If I was a local I'd complain about it.

I don't think there are any significant constraints on the Sandringham line, other than a lack of enough demand for that many services. Of course a lot could change in the next decade before this all comes together.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.

So essentially they are getting more services because the services being removed were essentially unusable for south yarra residents in any case. Is there a reason Sandringham couldn't be elevated to 16 instead of 12 trains an hour if needed?
With regards to peak hour, that argument could be made (if you were a spin doctor), but they'll definitely lose out off peak.
Still, fewer trains is fewer trains. If I was a local I'd complain about it.

I don't think there are any significant constraints on the Sandringham line, other than a lack of enough demand for that many services. Of course a lot could change in the next decade before this all comes together.
steve195
The Single platform at Sandringham probably is the major limiting factor for more services. I believe they are looking into more trains turning back (or originating) at Brighton Beach, but with trains having to cross lines to terminate, its also a limiting factor in itself.
  steve195 Train Controller

May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.

So essentially they are getting more services because the services being removed were essentially unusable for south yarra residents in any case. Is there a reason Sandringham couldn't be elevated to 16 instead of 12 trains an hour if needed?
With regards to peak hour, that argument could be made (if you were a spin doctor), but they'll definitely lose out off peak.
Still, fewer trains is fewer trains. If I was a local I'd complain about it.

I don't think there are any significant constraints on the Sandringham line, other than a lack of enough demand for that many services. Of course a lot could change in the next decade before this all comes together.
The Single platform at Sandringham probably is the major limiting factor for more services. I believe they are looking into more trains turning back (or originating) at Brighton Beach, but with trains having to cross lines to terminate, its also a limiting factor in itself.
TOQ-1
Any reason they can't use Brighton Beach similarly to Cheltenham?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
May I ask the following?

How many trains will be lost to South Yarra by going through the new cbd metro?
Could other lines get increased frequency using this free capacity?
Can't be bothered counting services in the timetable, but according to the network development plan (which is a few years old):

-There are currently 37 peak hour services at South Yarra
  • 16 Pakenham/Cranbourne
  • 13 Frankston
  • 8 Sandringham
-Once metro opens, they're projecting 29 peak hour services
  • 17 Frankston
  • 12 Sandringham


* these numbers might not be quite right given that the article states that if metro services stopped at South Yarra the peak frequency would be 75 seconds, whereas I've got it at 80 seconds


So to answer your question, Frankston and Sandringham will get many more services but not enough to compensate for those lost.

It's probably worth noting that many, if not most, South Yarra passengers physically can't get onto peak Pakenham/Cranbourne trains because they're so crowded.
steve195
After Metro Tunnel stage 2:
All peak hour:
Frankston to City Loop Peak: Limited Stop Off-peak: Stops All Stations: 8
Carrum* to City Loop Most Times: Limited Stop Other Off-peak: Stops All Stations:4
Cheltenham* to City Loop Most Times: Limited Stop: 7
Total: 17

Werribee to Flinders Street via Main Line Stops all stations; continue to Sandringham: 13
Sandringham* to Flinders Street Stops all stations; continue to Werribee :11


At stage 4:
Carrum* to Flagstaff Stops All Stations; Continue to Essendon: 4
Cheltenham* to City Loop Stops All Stations; Continue to Craigieburn:5
Baxter to Flagstaff Peak: Limited Stop; Continue to Craigieburn Off-peak: Stops All Stations; Continue to Craigieburn:9
total:18

Sandringham* to Southern Cross Stops all stations; continue to Upfield / Wallan :12
Grovedale* to Flinders Street Limited Stops; some continue to South Yarra :6 - but it says only some, so  I think only 3
Black Forest Road to Flinders Street Limited Stops; continue to South Yarra :3
total 21

https://static.ptv.vic.gov.au/siteassets/PTV/PTV%20docs/Metro-rail-network-development-plan/PTV_Network-Development-Plan_Metropolitan-Rail_2016update.pdf

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