Ballarat Line upgrades underway

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 20 Nov 2017 12:49
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

@bevans I will have to find the map again but I think the Warrenheip duplication proposed was on the up side of the junction.

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  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.........Keeping the Sea Lake and Manangatang lines plus the Maryborough to Gheringhap section of track as BG for another 12 months whilst they sort out Ballarat would make sense.............
james.au
That doesn’t augur well for the Mildura (Murrayville) SG line. An extra 12 months, at least, of Geelong and Melbourne trains having to go the extra 156 km via Ararat. Plus the extra 6 km and delays caused to all traffic by run rounds at Pyrenees Loop, which conflict with BG movements at Ararat and the loop appears to be configured more for crossings, eg no Low Speed lights on the Departure Homes. The extra traffic on the Ararat – Gheringhap section would add slightly to journey times overall on the Western line due to extra crossings (as both trains are unlikely to arrive at the particular loop at the same time).
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
.........Keeping the Sea Lake and Manangatang lines plus the Maryborough to Gheringhap section of track as BG for another 12 months whilst they sort out Ballarat would make sense.............
That doesn’t augur well for the Mildura (Murrayville) SG line. An extra 12 months, at least, of Geelong and Melbourne trains having to go the extra 156 km via Ararat. Plus the extra 6 km and delays caused to all traffic by run rounds at Pyrenees Loop, which conflict with BG movements at Ararat and the loop appears to be configured more for crossings, eg no Low Speed lights on the Departure Homes. The extra traffic on the Ararat – Gheringhap section would add slightly to journey times overall on the Western line due to extra crossings (as both trains are unlikely to arrive at the particular loop at the same time).
kitchgp
Agreed.

But also, as I was thinking this morning more about it, the government is probably going to also want to avoid major rail works through Ballarat this year, given the election and all.  There (if ive got them all) 12+ LX through ballarat that would each need to be closed for some days to put the SG through (though some of the ones on the line to Maryborigh seem to have been third railed at some stage). And if Ararat-Maryborough needs to be rerailed they need to continue to have BG access

What the Minister is saying is correct that they are doing stakeholder consultation.  But Im seeing clearly now that that is definitely only part of the story.  They have to fix Ararat-Maryborough, and not do Ballarat during an election year, meaning that they are probably consulting stakeholders about delaying.  Mind you this is just my hypothesis.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

The mess at Ararat for the new triangle should be a priority for the Murray Basin project and ARTC to complete.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
@bevans I will have to find the map again but I think the Warrenheip duplication proposed was on the up side of the junction.
potatoinmymouth

Ok, thanks as I always thought the plan was to put the junction back in place and use both tracks down of Warrenheip for trains from both Ballan and Geelong.

The Standard Gauge line would come up the southern track as a SG line as the original and maybe still plan for the SG to Geelong.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Is the Millbrook passing loop about removing the old track that goes around through Bungaree and Wallace and straightening it up with the new alignment?

If yes then I retract my earlier comment around Warrenheip duplication.  I got the two mixed up.
  stooge spark Train Controller

October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
potatoinmymouth
Are they getting rid of the Leakes Road level Crossing? The design seems like the tracks are being lowered.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Ive not paid much attention to Ballarat line in the past but its been something Ive been looking at over the last 24 hrs.  Quick question, what is the gradient of the track west of Bacchus Marsh?  is there any way that they could straighten out the line instead of having it loop a couple of km to the south and then back up again, as it climbs the hill?  Or even with current VLos, is that too much grade?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The line loops around because it is the start of the (in)famous Ingliston Bank; mostly 1 in 48 for near enough to 10 miles.
About the only way to overcome it is to build a high level bridge from Parwan to Bank Box and go over Bacchus Marsh instead of through it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Is the Millbrook passing loop about removing the old track that goes around through Bungaree and Wallace and straightening it up with the new alignment?

If yes then I retract my earlier comment around Warrenheip duplication.  I got the two mixed up.
james.au

Yes.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I've not paid much attention to Ballarat line in the past but its been something I've been looking at over the last 24 hrs.  Quick question, what is the gradient of the track west of Bacchus Marsh?  is there any way that they could straighten out the line instead of having it loop a couple of km to the south and then back up again, as it climbs the hill?  Or even with current VLos, is that too much grade?
james.au

The old track, pre 2005 RFR (Regional Fast Rail), as it ascended Ingliston Bank had 75 & 80Km/h curves and the big horseshoe curve was 90Km/h if I recall. The same curves canted and slightly straightened are now 115Km/h as is the horseshoe curve if I recall from my last cab-ride.

The line was looked at with a view to straightening it out from near Maddingley to the top of Bank Box loop, but was seen to be way too expensive for the huge cutting that would have had to be constructed for the less than 5 mins running time saved.

The Ballarat line had some massive curve easing under the RFR project in 2005, the most impressive being the curve on the downside of Bacchus Marsh platform which used to be 55Km/h for express trains and is now 100Km/h due to the cant and easing of the curve.

Several other curves along the line that used to be 80Km/h are now 160Km/h due to curve easing and the cant of the track.

Mike.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Today I learned about Ingliston Bank and now many comments ive read over time about it and Bacchus Marsh make sense.

Thankyou Railpage.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Today I learned about Ingliston Bank and now many comments ive read over time about it and Bacchus Marsh make sense.

Thankyou Railpage.
james.au
The section between Bacchus Marsh and Ballan is something of a connection between what were two branch lines emanating from Melbourne and Ballarat respectively and involved around 25 km of 1 in 48 facing down trains. The route via North Geelong and Meredith being the principal and easier route to/from Ballarat.

Back in the early 1990s the route via Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat and Beaufort was seriously considered by some 'ill informed' (crazy) people for the main SG freight route to Adelaide in lieu of via North Geelong, Cressy and Maroona. Thankfully their views were unsuccessful.

Right up to standardisation in the 1990s the longest and heaviest BG trains to Adelaide went via Cressy 'across the plains'.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Today I learned about Ingliston Bank and now many comments ive read over time about it and Bacchus Marsh make sense.

Thankyou Railpage.
The section between Bacchus Marsh and Ballan is something of a connection between what were two branch lines emanating from Melbourne and Ballarat respectively and involved around 25 km of 1 in 48 facing down trains. The route via North Geelong and Meredith being the principal and easier route to/from Ballarat.

Back in the early 1990s the route via Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat and Beaufort was seriously considered by some 'ill informed' (crazy) people for the main SG freight route to Adelaide in lieu of via North Geelong, Cressy and Maroona. Thankfully their views were unsuccessful.

Right up to standardisation in the 1990s the longest and heaviest BG trains to Adelaide went via Cressy 'across the plains'.
YM-Mundrabilla
Yeah if ive read correctly the line from Geelong to Ballarat went in first, making that connection the first one no?  Hence why platform 1 comes off the same track that comes up from Geelong rather than the more direct path?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Geelong - Ballarat was dual track.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Geelong - Ballarat was dual track.
kitchgp
Double line, actually, until it was 'upgraded' to single track in favour of the goat track via the Marsh.
Part of the well engineered Bendigo double line was, of course, similarly upgraded to single line years later.
What's the next improvement? Convert the rest of Victoria to 2'6" gauge?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Is the Millbrook passing loop about removing the old track that goes around through Bungaree and Wallace and straightening it up with the new alignment?

If yes then I retract my earlier comment around Warrenheip duplication.  I got the two mixed up.

Yes.
The Vinelander
Thinking about this - not requiring dual BG track out of Ballarat will probably simplify the works required for that area of Ballarat.  One SG and one BG heading out of the eastern side of town will be easier to do.  

Its going to be the BG/SG crossovers through Ballarat to keep platform and workshop access that will be required that are going to complicate this.  It could be simpler if they ran into platform 2 only, but that probably wont be liked by passengers.

Also, its probably desirable to give a SG freight road as much clearance as possible to allow them to proceed through Ballarat as quickly as possible and not hold up any traffic.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Geelong - Ballarat was dual track.
Double line, actually, until it was 'upgraded' to single track in favour of the goat track via the Marsh.
Part of the well engineered Bendigo double line was, of course, similarly upgraded to single line years later.
What's the next improvement? Convert the rest of Victoria to 2'6" gauge?
YM-Mundrabilla

With respect to Geelong - Ballarat, that line was singled around 1965 and as 1965 was not a time when VR was looking confidently to the 21st Century and what pax services we enjoy today. Singling was a was a prudent move to save on maintenance.

50+ years ago, when the car was king and every regional city wanted a freeway, who would have thought that railways would have the renaissance they now enjoy.

Regards the singling of the Bendigo line, although in retrospect it was a short sighted decision...but remember this decision was taken when V'Locity's were two car trains and there was no thought at that time of 'centre' cars, let alone 6 car or even 9 car V'Locity's making up services due to the exponential increase in pax numbers.

Personally I'm happier at age 63 travelling on PT than I ever was when I used to travel on the Friday 17:40 down Bendigo at age 16 with a B Class and up to 10 cars for the sometimes nearly 3 hour journey to Castlemaine.

Mike.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
potatoinmymouth
A useful newsletter. Now just to clear my mind on something, will the duplication planned for Melton also continue to Baccus Marsh?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
A useful newsletter. Now just to clear my mind on something, will the duplication planned for Melton also continue to Bacchus Marsh?
Duncs

Not in this scope of works. However with the 4 track sidings being built at Maddingley, just past Bacchus Marsh, it's inevitable that the track will become under wires to better utilise the new sidings and increase flexibility of the rolling stock.

Bear in mind there is virtually no space near Melton to construct sidings...save for the former railway dead end line.

Mike.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
A useful newsletter. Now just to clear my mind on something, will the duplication planned for Melton also continue to Bacchus Marsh?

Not in this scope of works. However with the 4 track sidings being built at Maddingley, just past Bacchus Marsh, it's inevitable that the track will become under wires to better utilise the new sidings and increase flexibility of the rolling stock.

Bear in mind there is virtually no space near Melton to construct sidings...save for the former railway dead end line.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Thanks Mike. Given the topography and terrain when approaching Baccus Marsh I can see this being quite a while off yet.
  stooge spark Train Controller

Fencing is all over Rockbank station now. And basic construction for the duplication has started.
Saw a couple of machines working near Toolern Creek.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
October 2017 newsletter
Make of that what you will. Just a standard PR map so possibly never had any relation to reality anyway.

And, just put online now:

June 2018 newsletter

Interesting points:

Work will start at Wendouree, then Ballan, Maddingley, Bacchus Marsh loop, Marsh station, Toolern, Ballan loop, Millbrook loop

and an explanation of why the Warrenheip duplication was removed!
A useful newsletter. Now just to clear my mind on something, will the duplication planned for Melton also continue to Bacchus Marsh?

Not in this scope of works. However with the 4 track sidings being built at Maddingley, just past Bacchus Marsh, it's inevitable that the track will become under wires to better utilise the new sidings and increase flexibility of the rolling stock.

Bear in mind there is virtually no space near Melton to construct sidings...save for the former railway dead end line.

Mike.
Thanks Mike. Given the topography and terrain when approaching Baccus Marsh I can see this being quite a while off yet.
Duncs

Err...have you ever caught a train to Mt Victoria Question

M.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I was commenting on the timeframe here Mike. Mount Victoria is in the Blue Mountains.

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