People injured after train crash at Richmond Station

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 22 Jan 2018 10:50
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ooops

People injured after train crash at Richmond Station

Sponsored advertisement

  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
And with that, my message stream exploded.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
nothing that bad
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
nothing that bad
Dangersdan707
Three trapped, train looks to be off the rails. Yeah - 'nothing that bad'. Come on.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
nothing that bad
Dangersdan707

16 injured.  How many seriously?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
as long as no one is critically injured or dies, nothing that bad. however I send my condolences to the people involved. I am out of the country at the moment so I probably wont be seeing this on the news and in the paper.
  steam3801 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Newcastle
.... I am out of the country at the moment so I probably wont be seeing this on the news and in the paper.
Dangersdan707
So how are you in any position to offer such an uninformed comment - rightly or wrongly - as .... ???

nothing that bad
Dangersdan707
  ivahri Train Controller

Question to those more knowledgeable... is the coupling between carriages in the Waratahs deliberately designed to compress & take the stress of an impact? Looks like the 1st & 2nd carriages have done that? Is that part of the design?



Richard
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Question to those more knowledgeable... is the coupling between carriages in the Waratahs deliberately designed to compress & take the stress of an impact? Looks like the 1st & 2nd carriages have done that? Is that part of the design?
ivahri
I don't work for the railway; but I am led to believe that's the case, yes.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
@bevans first comment 'Oops' made me think it wasn't that bad (yes I know I am acting like a smeg crybaby here) I misinterpreted the Social question left by Bevans OK. I apologise
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Question to those more knowledgeable... is the coupling between carriages in the Waratahs deliberately designed to compress & take the stress of an impact? Looks like the 1st & 2nd carriages have done that? Is that part of the design?
I don't work for the railway; but I am led to believe that's the case, yes.
s3_gunzel
Usually, on EMUs at least as I understand it.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
ABC version of the article, with some shots of the inside damage.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/sydney-train-crashes-at-richmond-station-injuring-passengers/9348398

Just thinking about the other recent thread here about the PPTV carriages, spares, replace v repair, looks like we'll have an answer soon. According to two reports I've read (as accurate as they may be), claims of it hitting the buffer at 50km/h. I'd think there would be more damage to both the buffer and the front of the train if that was the case. Looks almost unscathed in the photos seen so far.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The buffer block at richmond wouldn't stop a waratah train at 50km/h.  the train has hit it at 10km/h at the very most.  6-7km/h is most likely judging from the damage.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Don't forget it's the media that said 50 km/h. Apply the media factor of one-tenth and that's probably close.
  piepants Chief Train Controller

Location: Newcastle
Question to those more knowledgeable... is the coupling between carriages in the Waratahs deliberately designed to compress & take the stress of an impact? Looks like the 1st & 2nd carriages have done that? Is that part of the design?



Richard
ivahri

Yes. From the original Waratah train performance specification:

6.8.2 Collision Performance
In a head on collision, the Set shall perform in an equivalent or safer manner to how two four-Car trains coupled as an eight-car train performs in a collision with a stationary similar train as set out in Table 8a below. The design shall maximise the energy absorbing capacity of sacrificial elements in the couplers before crumple zones.:
Collision Speed Range Accepted Damage Energy Absorbed by
Up to 15 km/h None Couplers
From 15 to 19 km/h Coupler sacrificial elements on first two Cars Couplers
From 19 to 24 km/h Coupler sacrificial elements Couplers
From 24 to 42 km/h Couplers and crumple zones Couplers and crumple zones
Above 42 km/h Couplers, crumple zones and Car body shells Couplers, crumple zones and Car body shells
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Don't forget it's the media that said 50 km/h. Apply the media factor of one-tenth and that's probably close.
"Valvegear"


This would have to be one of the biggest media built up stories I've seen in a while. "Horror train crash", I think was headline on ABC website this morning.

- Yes a few people were injured, some more seriously than others and driver I'm sure very shaken and hopefully all will recover quickly.. A sudden stop coming to the station will do that, everyone was getting off and hence most likely standing or walking to door with nothing but steel to stop your inertia.

- Inside the article were quotes of train at "full speed", yet the train was still on the platform and from video I could not see signs that train had derailed. Rear end of train looks like its about 5-8m from end of platform.

- The front panelling of the train still looks intact and the low set running lights were still on, so what did it actually hit?

- the buffer stop that he train hit is sitting against the ramp 2-3 m in front of the train next to the walk way they are off-loading the injured and the hand rail is still intact.
  piepants Chief Train Controller

Location: Newcastle
7 News have posted some (terrible quality) video of the impact here: https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/1976798672344256/

It's certainly not 50km/h, but still a decent speed. Note that the coupler under the cab is damaged, so it's made contact with the concrete wall.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Cheap Chinese crap don't stop.
Ban the brand pending findings.
  viaprojects Train Controller

7 News have posted some (terrible quality) video of the impact here: https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/1976798672344256/

It's certainly not 50km/h, but still a decent speed. Note that the coupler under the cab is damaged, so it's made contact with the concrete wall.
piepants


FTA 7 news had some damage images - any way it was fast enough for a little jump of the rails ....so the jacks are out to put the train on the tracks ...
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Cheap Chinese crap don't stop.
Ban the brand pending findings.
Junction box
So what about the Metro Siemens? Or the QR x60-series? Or the 81 class when you try power-braking the AK car's for the first (and after that....only) time? Shocked

If there is any indication that the train did not respond to driver command, then I would hope CityRail would suspend Waratah operations until the fault is identified, confirmed and contained. But till then, there's nothing to suggest any specific cause, train, Driver or otherwise. If OTSI handball this to the ATSB, they're likely to be busy little beavers, with a bunch of new investigations since January 1st alone!

Don't forget the 'experts' that came out of the woodwork after Cleveland, saying "ATP would have prevented this crash, if QR had installed it"...when in fact the investigation showed ATP would not have mattered one iota, as it was not a braking issue, but an adhesion issue. They are not always the same thing...
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
I know its a cheap shot but its on the cards, they will find out.
  ivahri Train Controller

Cheap Chinese crap don't stop.
Ban the brand pending findings.
Junction box
Did you even read the extract from the design specification?

It appears that what you described as "cheap Chinese crap" did precisely what it was designed to do.

I'd like to see you try that in a K or C set... the driver could well be dead now.

Yes bring on the findings... because I suspect it will confirm that the design saved lives.



Richard
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Buffer stops at newer locations, such as Chatswood Turnback, are of the energy absorbing type. Such buffer stops grip the rails with a bit of looseness, and there is a length of track, say 25m, that absorbs the looseness. After being hit, the absorbing buffer stops need to be moved back to the original position.

Not all situations have space for the absorbing track.

A badly designed buffer stop is at Macarthur, where the buffers are right at the end of the platform, the  buffers is of the fixed type, and there is plenty of space for a 100m absorbing track, if any one bother to design one.

Sometimes there is a timed train stop to trip the brakes if it is going too fast. Central ESR turnback ends in a solid concrete wall with no room for an absorbing track. CMIIAW, but I think there is timed intermediate train stop.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Cheap Chinese crap don't stop.
Ban the brand pending findings.
Junction box
What sort of a moronic response is that? Dozens of sets, hundreds of trips a day, and 1 incident, yet you want to deny people a service?

I assume the involved set will have a data logger download and a full inspection, lets stop assuming we know more than we do and await some pertinent information?
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Cheap Chinese crap don't stop.
Ban the brand pending findings.
Junction box
This class of train performs more services everyday than almost any train type in the entire world.  With near stellar safety performance. For all we know some idiot teenager put a heap of oil on the rails just before the train arrived.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.