Attempt to Revive South Gippsland Tourist railway ??

 
Topic moved from Victoria by dthead on 02 Aug 2019 22:58
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Gippsland Southern Railway Connect are in the stages of forming a new committee and accordingly working with the PTV and VicTrack in the process of building a heritage rail preservation organisation.
From the Internet



Refer to these, I wish all involved good luck and I look forward to (maybe) seeing the Results in some time.

http://sgst.com.au/2018/05/new-effort-to-bring-back-tourist-train/  
and

https://www.facebook.com/groups/245904655974456/

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Led by Leongatha resident Doug Pell, a group of six local business people and railway enthusiasts has over the last few months, been in discussions with VicTrack, which owns the railway land, and they say they’ve been granted permission to run a train from Korumburra to Kardella.
“We’ve pretty well got the go ahead,” says Mr Pell.
“We’ve just got to go through the accreditation process, but that’s not a problem. That’s just paperwork.
South Gippsland Sentinel Times
Laughing

Doesn't sound like he fully understands what killed off the SGR...
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Led by Leongatha resident Doug Pell, a group of six local business people and railway enthusiasts has over the last few months, been in discussions with VicTrack, which owns the railway land, and they say they’ve been granted permission to run a train from Korumburra to Kardella.
“We’ve pretty well got the go ahead,” says Mr Pell.
“We’ve just got to go through the accreditation process, but that’s not a problem. That’s just paperwork.
Laughing

Doesn't sound like he fully understands what killed off the SGR...
LancedDendrite
Yup.

Doesn't help that it's basically in an area that sucks for tourists..
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Is all the rolling stock still based at the old SGR yard?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
“We’ve just got to go through the accreditation process, but that’s not a problem. That’s just paperwork.”

No it's not, mate - it's bureaucratic Utopia.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Doesn't help that it's basically in an area that sucks for tourists...
Speedemon08

I've had quite a few post-mortem discussions about the SGR and this isn't raised as a huge issue by those who were involved. The biggest problem was paperwork - anyone involved in today's railway industry (not just tourist railways) will understand what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to find volunteers to do this sort of work and when it's not done, the regulator has to come in and shut you down. Despite what some people involved in railway preservation may think, the bureaucrats weren't cackling with glee over having an opportunity to shut down one of those pesky tourist railways.

Whilst I'm not going to engage in counterfactuals out of respect for the ex-SGR volunteers, I will say this: the SGR wasn't doomed to fail. But a failure to learn from the collapse of the SGR will doom any attempts at a revival.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Is all the rolling stock still based at the old SGR yard?
x31
some of it is still there
-The Red Hens
- A few Timber Carriages and the Freight stock
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

the South Gippy Railway is a lemon, nobody wants to travel on it, best to concentrate on current Tourist Railways.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
“We’ve just got to go through the accreditation process, but that’s not a problem. That’s just paperwork.”

No it's not, mate - it's bureaucratic Utopia.
Valvegear
Let's see.

VicTrack, VicRoads, ATR, Local Council, ATO, Bank, Department of Justice or ASIC, TSV, Tourism Victoria, Environment Victoria.......

That's all I've got for starters, anyone else?

BG
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
PTV, ONRSR, an insurer (public liability and volunteers insurance), WorkSafe, local water authorities...

But the Big Kahuna is ONRSR/TSV.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
PTV, ONRSR, an insurer (public liability and volunteers insurance), WorkSafe, local water authorities...

But the Big Kahuna is ONRSR/TSV.
LancedDendrite
LD in this scenario do you need to deal with BOTH PTV and VicTrack and BOTH ONRSR and TSV?

Legitimate question, I wouldn't that thought that there would have been an overlap.

BG
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
TSV and ONRSR are interchangeable depending on whether you've migrated over to the national regulation scheme or not. Oftentimes it's the same people doing the auditing anyway, they just put on a different hat depending on who they visit.

As for VicTrack vs PTV/TfV - one is a landlord, the other has control over a great deal of heritage rollingstock in addition to being an interface with the Big Railways.
  darcycammo Chief Train Controller

Location: cockatoo vic
All of the rollingstock is still there besides

MT200 (Derm/Brill) trailer which is now at Daylesford

The 2 ganger trolleys have been moved was told they went to Walhalla
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
All of the rollingstock is still there besides

MT200 (Derm/Brill) trailer which is now at Daylesford

The 2 ganger trolleys have been moved was told they went to Walhalla
darcycammo
didn't the Y class go to the Yarra valley railway?
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
All of the rollingstock is still there besides

MT200 (Derm/Brill) trailer which is now at Daylesford

The 2 ganger trolleys have been moved was told they went to Walhalla
didn't the Y class go to the Yarra valley railway?
Dangersdan707

According to their Facebook page, yes.
  darcycammo Chief Train Controller

Location: cockatoo vic
Y135 was allocated to YVR hasn’t been moved

Like I said before MT200 plus most of the Hirail trucks have gone to Daylesford

2 ganger trolleys went to Walhalla

An old G/GY wagon has gone up to the rail trail somewhere near Bendigo area

That’s all that should have been moved so far

I would have thought the 2 ABU’s from the old vintage train from Ballarat that went to SGR that were just restored down there which never got to see a day in service would have been taken to the likes of VGR by now
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE SURVEY COMPLETED
Today Southern Rail completed its rail infrastructure survey. The survey involved us walking the 36km rail corridor between Nyora and Leongatha whilst stopping at each station.

Some of the surveyed items are:
Checking the rail & rail related items.
Sleepers.
Ballast.
Earth works & drainage.
Bridge and road crossing conditions.

We are very pleased to report that the conditions of these items are to a standard that we expected. With this survey now completed we can take this data to our rail construction contractor for final project scope analysis and finalisation of costing. This information will now be shared in our meetings with various state government bodies, we have had preliminary discussions and have been called in to discuss going further.

A survey from Nyora to Clyde is currently been planned.

Southern Rail is committed to returning rail services to South Gippsland to showcase the area to the growing tourism market through our planned heritage trains in turn boosting the local economy and providing over 80 jobs for the area.  

When you take away the weeds and fallen trees, the railway line is in very good condition and can be brought up to a very high standard by our rail contractors so we can operate a commuter service reliably. With the railway infrastructure bones being at such a very good standard we are disappointed that the Korumburra Round Table Group are still pushing council to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in removing this vital piece of infrastructure. There are options for them to achieve their goals and promote the return of rail, not in the next 50 years but in the next 4 to 5. Government is looking for private partners to help with these kinds of projects.

Remember once the infrastructure is removed, you make it very hard for it to be returned.

If you would like the rail service to return now is the time to act. Please share this post to all the community group pages if you want to see the rail service returned to South Gippsland by Southern Rail
Southern Rail Preservation Group


Posted on Facebook today. Will be very curious to see their costings, especially as the end goal is a commuter service of some description.

I’m still sceptical, but good luck to them.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Hi everyone, just a quick update on a few things that Southern Rail have been doing of late. Firstly, once again thank you for such a great response to our last post about the railway infrastructure survey we conducted. With over 170 shares on the post, it's really pleasing that our project has been shared by the community in large numbers. We know that the community are in desperate need of a passenger train, as the other forms of public transport in South Gippsland are not able to cope with the growing population or suite the communities needs. It is really disappointing that the council can not see the high demand by the community for the railways return. Southern Rail will construct and operate a reliable rail passenger service for the South Gippsland region, that will integrate with existing and future bus services giving the whole community the transport system they deserve.

So what's been happening since the infrastructure survey?

We have compiled a detailed track and infrastructure report, which will be used in forming a more detailed and accurate plan for the project. We have been in discussions with various government and corporate bodies which will help get the project off the ground and ensure we are successful in producing and maintaining such a vital service for many years to come.

With the state election just around the corner once again there is major investment in rail all over Victoria, but sadly not for South Gippsland. Southern Rail are constantly working very hard to change that outcome and to ensure that we return rail to the community of South Gippsland.

Finally the name change. We feel the name; Southern Rail Group, better summarises what our group wishes to achieve. Southern Rail will return the railway for public transport, tourism and logistics.

Please keep sharing our project with a strong community voice we can make it happen. In the meantime enjoy a photo taken from the railway just west of a foggy Korumburra morning.
Southern Rail Group

Again - sounds promising, but we could be forgiven for remaining sceptical.

Question: is there any other "preservation" group in Australia that currently operates something more than a tourist-oriented service, or that has future plans to? I am not too familiar with the preservation scene so sorry if that's a dumb question.

I can see a big upside and a big downside. The downside is fairly obvious - preservation is hard and getting too ambitious too early may lead to disappointment down the track. On the other hand, having the stated goal of reopening the railway for commuters and, as is hinted at, freight, may be an underutilised mechanism of garnering community and corporate sponsorship.

Of course, as those familiar with the VGR will no doubt vouch for, the big hurdle to any such proposal would be the reluctance of the authorities to allow a "preservation" service to interface with the mainline in any way.

Food for thought.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Question: is there any other "preservation" group in Australia that currently operates something more than a tourist-oriented service, or that has future plans to? I am not too familiar with the preservation scene so sorry if that's a dumb question.
potatoinmymouth
Bendigo Tramways have done trials in the past and still have a 'commuter pass' for locals, but they aren't running commuter-oriented services.

Aside from them (and some other tramways), nothing like a commuter service is operated by any Tourist & Heritage Railway in Australia or indeed even in the UK, the Mecca of preserved/heritage railways. There is no concrete plan at any of the Australian THRs to run a commuter-oriented service either.

THRs tend to be located in low-density exurban/regional areas and aren't particularly long - not exactly commuter rail material.

Of course, as those familiar with the VGR will no doubt vouch for, the big hurdle to any such proposal would be the reluctance of the authorities to allow a "preservation" service to interface with the mainline in any way.
potatoinmymouth
I wouldn't say that's been the VGR's experience, as their partnership with Steamrail Victoria has shown.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Of course, as those familiar with the VGR will no doubt vouch for, the big hurdle to any such proposal would be the reluctance of the authorities to allow a "preservation" service to interface with the mainline in any way.
I wouldn't say that's been the VGR's experience, as their partnership with Steamrail Victoria has shown.
LancedDendrite
True but that is with V/Line Heritage Crews and I assume they don't come cheap.

One alternative would be for the THR to become a mainline accredited operator themselves and then I assume that they could hire their own crews (route knowledge and other training would be a prerequisite of course) but I am not sure of the mechanics of how this could work.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Sorry, I was thinking more in 2004(?) when VGR began running into Castlemaine for the first time - weren’t there some major safeworking changes required to keep whoever was the infrastructure manager at the time happy?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Sorry, I was thinking more in 2004(?) when VGR began running into Castlemaine for the first time - weren’t there some major safeworking changes required to keep whoever was the infrastructure manager at the time happy?
potatoinmymouth
If by major safe working changes you mean waiting a year or so for FA to book the Castlemaine > Maryborough line out of service then yes!

As I have posted before Hell will freeze over before the RTBU will sanction volunteer drivers on the V/Line or Metro networks. Aint gonna happen. Apart from the obvious safety and insurance ramifications it would open the flood gates to any old organisation declaring themselves a Heritage operator and running trains without paying crews (ie it's a thin edge of the wedge argument)

Any THR who wished to interface with the "real" railway would need to pay for V/Line crews and use V/Lines accreditation or get their own accreditation (hugely expensive and time consuming) and employ their own crews (note employed not volunteers).

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Sorry, I was thinking more in 2004(?) when VGR began running into Castlemaine for the first time - weren’t there some major safeworking changes required to keep whoever was the infrastructure manager at the time happy?
If by major safe working changes you mean waiting a year or so for FA to book the Castlemaine > Maryborough line out of service then yes!

As I have posted before Hell will freeze over before the RTBU will sanction volunteer drivers on the V/Line or Metro networks. Aint gonna happen. Apart from the obvious safety and insurance ramifications it would open the flood gates to any old organisation declaring themselves a Heritage operator and running trains without paying crews (ie it's a thin edge of the wedge argument)

Any THR who wished to interface with the "real" railway would need to pay for V/Line crews and use V/Lines accreditation or get their own accreditation (hugely expensive and time consuming) and employ their own crews (note employed not volunteers).

BG
BrentonGolding
That'll be what I was thinking of then, thanks.

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