Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  chomper Locomotive Driver

Would have preferred a commitment for Metro 2, but this is probably the most long term minded project I've seen in a while! The purpose is clearly not what is advertised. I think that they are trying to decentralise the city, and will facilitate this with this rail link. This will enable the multiple-CBD model that people talk about and should hopefully ensure Melbourne can remain a highly liveable city.  Very interesting indeed!
We're still months out from the election. I agree though that Metro 2 should be being planned in the next government term so that the TBMs finishing their work in 2022 can go straight onto that.
John.Z
The TBM's for Metro 1 haven't even been ordered yet, I'm not sure they'll be done by 2022.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
We're still months out from the election. I agree though that Metro 2 should be being planned in the next government term so that the TBMs finishing their work in 2022 can go straight onto that.
John.Z

I heard Daniel Andrews speak this morning on Triple M about this announcement and a few things he said:
1. He was adamant that aside from some sections of the line near the Airport (where their is an easement set aside for a future railway) everything else will be underground.
2. That he was hoping to include Public Private Partnerships into the equation to help fund this project, and was also open to getting some help from the federal government.
3. Construction will begin on the first 2 sections by 2022 (the next state election), those sections being the Sunshine to Melbourne Airport section, and the Cheltenham to Box Hill section. He said they will take 10 years to be complete.

Now it stands to reason that the Sunshine to Melbourne Airport section will be the first section ready for the Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs). It is the shorter section, not all of it will be tunnelled and funding for it has already been secured, meaning work for it can begin sooner. So from that I gather that as soon as the TBMs are finished with Metro 1 they will be moved to Sunshine to begin work there, then when finished there, they will move to Box Hill and Cheltenham and begin there.

It really does seem to me that Daniel Andrews and his team are attempting to start a long term phase of rail construction in Victoria, and this can only be a good thing for our state and our city.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The TBM's for Metro 1 haven't even been ordered yet, I'm not sure they'll be done by 2022.
Chomper
"Construction is due to start in 2022" I doubt they will be ready for the TBMs at the start of the construction phase. There is a lot to get done before you send those things in.
  chomper Locomotive Driver

The TBM's for Metro 1 haven't even been ordered yet, I'm not sure they'll be done by 2022.
"Construction is due to start in 2022" I doubt they will be ready for the TBMs at the start of the construction phase. There is a lot to get done before you send those things in.
Gman_86

Dooes anyone know what sort of TBM the design brief calls for?

From conversations with engineers involved in Crossrail, the TBM's were the first things sunk into the various shafts to start digging. All the station boxes and supporting formwork happened concurrently.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

We're still months out from the election. I agree though that Metro 2 should be being planned in the next government term so that the TBMs finishing their work in 2022 can go straight onto that.
It really does seem to me that Daniel Andrews and his team are attempting to start a long term phase of rail construction in Victoria, and this can only be a good thing for our state and our city.
Gman_86
I just can't believe how much work has already been done. If you compare this to previous transport policies that have been taken to an election, the amount of information available is just amazing. For instance, the Liberals did not go into the 2014 election with a 38 page appraisal of their CBD tunnel on a public website, nor for the East West Link (infamously).

Of course, this is much easier for the Government than an Opposition, since they have control of the public service* but it is positive policy creation at its very best. More, please!

*Really, this is the role of the public service - to support the government of the day. I have noted an interesting shift back in favour of a powerful public service during the Andrews government. For instance, the model of the Office of the Coordinator General, reporting to the DEDJTR secretary and encompassing the delivery authorities - is very much Department of Public Works rather than the minimalist corporatised approaches pursued by governments in the recent past (eg the NBN). Looking at the phenomenal pace of construction activity and ideas like this being created, it seems to be working.
  chomper Locomotive Driver
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

This circular rail line is pie in the sky stuff made for gullible voters and will not happen...………………...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This circular rail line is pie in the sky stuff made for gullible voters and will not happen...………………...
trainbrain
And I'm sure back in the 1970s, people said the same thing about the City Loop.

You can think big, and shoot for the stars, or you can be like Mr. Guy, and build more roads, because that is easier to achieve.
  chomper Locomotive Driver

I think we can take a lot away from how Singapore has made the Thomson-East Coast Line happen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomson%E2%80%93East_Coast_MRT_line
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I just can't believe how much work has already been done. If you compare this to previous transport policies that have been taken to an election, the amount of information available is just amazing. For instance, the Liberals did not go into the 2014 election with a 38 page appraisal of their CBD tunnel on a public website, nor for the East West Link (infamously).

Of course, this is much easier for the Government than an Opposition, since they have control of the public service* but it is positive policy creation at its very best. More, please!
potatoinmymouth
Yes it is easier for the government than the opposition, but only if the government first recognise that this is the correct course of action in the first place.

Does anyone know what sort of TBM the design brief calls for?
chomper
Not yet, unless it is buried somewhere deep in today's release. Either way, I am not an expert on various TBMs, and I am not pretending to be, It just stands to reason that it would not be required at the earliest stages of construction, just like it has not yet been utilised on the Metro Tunnel project. I may of course be wrong.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

A rough alignment of the SRL?

https://s22.postimg.cc/4dh5ipkw1/SRL_route_1.jpg
chomper
I believe that the section between sunshine and werribee may go via the RRL, otherwise it looks pretty accurate.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
A rough alignment of the SRL?

https://s22.postimg.cc/4dh5ipkw1/SRL_route_1.jpg
I believe that the section between sunshine and werribee may go via the RRL, otherwise it looks pretty accurate.
John.Z
No, Underground.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
Starting to realise there's some clever political design to this...
Vote in Andrews this time and they're basically saying they will START before the next election (and once those first stages are signed off and going I think it will go through to completion - it would be political suicide to kill off a rail tunnel to Monash Uni).

Then you'll have Sunshine to Airport and Box Hill to Cheltenham done before perhaps another battle to do the rest, but with the popular cherry-on-top of Doncaster within easy reach.

Nicely done :p
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
A rough alignment of the SRL?

https://s22.postimg.cc/4dh5ipkw1/SRL_route_1.jpg
I believe that the section between sunshine and werribee may go via the RRL, otherwise it looks pretty accurate.
No, Underground.

Not that I am commenting on the accuracy of that map, just saying that according to the Premier, apart from a section near the Airport, the rest will be underground.
Gman_86
  Alphabet Train Controller

Location: Moonee Ponds
A genuinely great idea, one that I would love to see come to fruition.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

A rough alignment of the SRL?

https://s22.postimg.cc/4dh5ipkw1/SRL_route_1.jpg
I believe that the section between sunshine and werribee may go via the RRL, otherwise it looks pretty accurate.
No, Underground.
Gman_86
On both 3AW and the ABC today, Jacinta Allen has said that Airport to Cheltenham will be underground, as there is no land reservations for above ground, but did say that west of the Airport, they would be looking at all grade options (Neil Mitchell kept trying to get her to say Skyrail, but she wouldn't be baited for the grab). The exact alignment hasn't be selected west of the airport, hence the dogleg and lack of detail compared to the eastern section, but this will be the last section built as it is still greenfields, though not for long. Above ground is cheaper than underground, so I would not be surprised if they are already assessing land reservations they can buy to ensure it doesn't need to go under,
  mejhammers1 Deputy Commissioner

This circular rail line is pie in the sky stuff made for gullible voters and will not happen...………………...
And I'm sure back in the 1970s, people said the same thing about the City Loop.

You can think big, and shoot for the stars, or you can be like Mr. Guy, and build more roads, because that is easier to achieve.
Gman_86
Yeah you can think big. This is Victoria and this scheme is absolutely pants wetting insane.

Michael
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Would have preferred a commitment for Metro 2, but this is probably the most long term minded project I've seen in a while! The purpose is clearly not what is advertised. I think that they are trying to decentralise the city, and will facilitate this with this rail link. This will enable the multiple-CBD model that people talk about and should hopefully ensure Melbourne can remain a highly liveable city.  Very interesting indeed!
We're still months out from the election. I agree though that Metro 2 should be being planned in the next government term so that the TBMs finishing their work in 2022 can go straight onto that.
The TBM's for Metro 1 haven't even been ordered yet, I'm not sure they'll be done by 2022.
chomper
Actually, it was released in March that the Metro 1 TBM's had been ordered and were being assembled - the first one is due to arrive in December this year: https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/about-the-project/news/tunnel-boring-machines-on-the-way

I just had a thought given the route of this project. It's not inconceivable that any level crossing removals that are due to start soon for example Cheltenham & Reservoir will be future proofed to facilitate the SRL. We know that Cheltenham will be a rail under project. Given this is the case, why not make the northbound ramp just that bit wider so that the Frankston line ascends on either side of the trench leaving a section in the middle that can easily be dug out later to form the tunnel entrance. And for Reservoir, whatever the solution might be, foundations are dug in such a way that means a tunnel and station box can be dug underneath. I've also heard that people and Hume council have been advocating for a rebuild of Broadmeadows - this could also be future proofed.

I had a look at the Strategic Plan and it's quite informative, enough to provoke thought and discussion. I believe community consultation will start next year.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
On both 3AW and the ABC today, Jacinta Allen has said that Airport to Cheltenham will be underground, as there is no land reservations for above ground, but did say that west of the Airport, they would be looking at all grade options (Neil Mitchell kept trying to get her to say Skyrail, but she wouldn't be baited for the grab)
John.Z
There you go, I missed that one. Neil Mitchell's obsession with bagging Skyrail at every oppurtunity is one of the reasons I no longer listen to his program (The constant onslaught of depressing ads for funeral homes, emergency alarm pendants and aged care facilities being another of many). I'm guessing her interview on the ABC was with Jon Faine, well I avoid him too, he just puts me to sleep all together.

It does make sense that they haven't planned the Werribee - Sunshine section just yet, seeing as it will be the last built (and the least likely to be built if the Libs cease power before a sod is turned), and ground level would work, especially if it is to share the RRL alignment, then it would sort out the problem with what to do with Tarneit et al.

It also doesn't surprise me to see the outer west being the afterthought, yet again.
  bramt Deputy Commissioner


I just had a thought given the route of this project. It's not inconceivable that any level crossing removals that are due to start soon for example Cheltenham & Reservoir will be future proofed to facilitate the SRL. We know that Cheltenham will be a rail under project. Given this is the case, why not make the northbound ramp just that bit wider so that the Frankston line ascends on either side of the trench leaving a section in the middle that can easily be dug out later to form the tunnel entrance.
jdekorte
The actual track may not necessarily connect with the Frankston line. It's possible they build a junction at Clayton only, and stable the trains at Pakenham East.

Although if it did connect at Cheltenham, you could run an actual continuous loop via the city then Werribee
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The fact that they have called this line the Suburban Rail Loop, doesn't necessarily mean they intend it be an actual loop in the true sense of the word. Calling a new rail line a loop or a link just sounds good in media reports, that is all.

It's the sort of thing that the Jims, Rhondas and Karstens of the world do without thinking about the true nature of the word.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Can we at least get double tracks on the existing electrified lines, lose the tram crossings and fix the timetable holes before even thinking of digging up half of Victoria? I hate to imagine Mooroolbark to Lilydale still having a single track with two trains per hour in 2050.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Daniel was on Sunrise this morning talking about the project and you could see the excitement in his communication.  It was an excellent performance.  The only downside was Samantha Armitage (clueless) who of course bought the conversation back to Sydney with negative comments about the light rail works only to have Daniel advise it was an underground project and not light rail.
  chomper Locomotive Driver

Listening to the radio this morning, an engineer type reckoned that the SRL could be built for $40 billion and in 15 years.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Listening to the radio this morning, an engineer type reckoned that the SRL could be built for $40 billion and in 15 years.
chomper
Was his name Casper Jonquil by any chance? Laughing

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