Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
This is completely unsubstantiated, but I overheard a couple of PTV employees this afternoon at Flinders St and they were basically saying that once the tunnel borers have done their work for Metro 1, they'll be re-tasked to start boring for the SRL, not for the MARL or Metro 2. Someone in the hierarchy wants SRL to happen as soon as possible if their conversation has any merit. It might have been April Fools banter, but who knows...
chomper
I have heard this banded about as well while eavesdropping. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to push out MARL when there is so much federal $$$ in the pipeline but who knows.

One thing that seems to be a constant here though is that Metro 2 will get pushed out.

BG

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  True Believers Chief Commissioner

This is completely unsubstantiated, but I overheard a couple of PTV employees this afternoon at Flinders St and they were basically saying that once the tunnel borers have done their work for Metro 1, they'll be re-tasked to start boring for the SRL, not for the MARL or Metro 2. Someone in the hierarchy wants SRL to happen as soon as possible if their conversation has any merit. It might have been April Fools banter, but who knows...
chomper
Yeah I was told that the tunnel boring machines can be reused after digging up the Metro Tunnel. Not sure whether they'll be reused for the MARL or SRL or the Metro 2? Sometimes it's cheaper to bury the machines, but I'm not sure in this case whether reusing the boring machine have any merit.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The Metro Tunnel is relatively short so it may well be more cost effective to dig up the machines - bearing in mind they’ll finish at the easiest access points - than to bury them.

My guess is that Andrews, Pallas and Allan are preparing to go it alone or mostly alone funding the SRL and have told Director Hannett to cost the cheapest possible option to get things off the ground. Buying a second-hand TBM from the Metro Tunnel consortium probably works out cheaper than a brand new one.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

If the SRL western section utilises the RRL than do you need a direct line to the city from WV or could the SRL replace that and have all the planned stations such as Blackforest Rd, Sayers Rd, Davis Rd, Derimut/Deer Park West along the line.

Passengers wanting to travel to the city would change trains at Sunshine or Wyndham Vale (assuming Werribee has been extended) and the people in the West would also have direct access to Monash, Bundoora, Airport, etc.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
https://www.theage.com.au/federal-election-2019/bill-shorten-woos-victorian-voters-with-10-billion-funding-pledge-for-suburban-rail-loop-20190511-p51mak.html
Bill has 'got on board' with today's $10 Billion announcement to get this mega project underway.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
https://www.theage.com.au/federal-election-2019/bill-shorten-woos-victorian-voters-with-10-billion-funding-pledge-for-suburban-rail-loop-20190511-p51mak.html
Bill has 'got on board' with today's $10 Billion announcement to get this mega project underway.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Just heard the news on radio myself wow this is a significant announcement and foreshadowed to Albanese on twitter last week.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

Well this announcement certainly makes building it a lot more achievable. It also means that Metro 2 might be able to be built sooner than expected, since Victoria won't have to pay as much for SRL.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

$10b would fund a good amount of the south-eastern section, and when you consider that the airport link will be funded no matter who wins government, two of the key sections of the SRL will almost certainly be underway by 2022.

That's not forgetting the $2b injection to the Metro Tunnel which Andrews specifically said would "free up" funds to be used on other projects.

A mid-term Metro 2 announcement is looking increasingly likely.

Also of note is that RPV have been advertising for several executive positions related to the SRL over the last couple of weeks. They have clearly been told to expect the political imperative to get on with it.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
PIMM I would agree a mid term Metro 2 announcement is certainly in the cards but IMHO we need to get the surburban loop underway asap with a focus on the northern connections if you consider the new housing areas going out along the line to Seymour.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Fantastic news

SRL is needed for Victoria and with some minor tweaking (3.2km extension to Sandringham, few more stations, rerouting the line to serve better precincts rather than Reservior/Fawkner) if will be an excellent project
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Fantastic news

SRL is needed for Victoria and with some minor tweaking (3.2km extension to Sandringham, few more stations, rerouting the line to serve better precincts rather than Reservior/Fawkner) if will be an excellent project
ptvcommuter
Disagree with your twerking the SRL.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

@True Believers

Not really changing much. It is a worthwhile project but a small 3.2km addition from Southland to Sandringham is supported by many and logical

Fawkner is a dud, Reservior can be considered a dud. Better choices include Campbellfield and Coburg for connections on the Upfield Line or Preston, Thomastown or Epping on the Mernda Line.

SE section is fine you could even deviate a little to a station at Dingley Village and connect to the huge housing development and population. There is also a proposed water park that might be built down there, Hawthorn future training ground, Kingston Heath Complex, Employment areas around DFO and Moorabbin Airport

Again it’s an option otherwise there’s also merit for a station in Moorabbin for the big population, future housing and established employment centre

The western section of SRL can be the new Wyndham Vale Line from Sunshine that connects to Werribee and Point Cook.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

@True Believers

Not really changing much. It is a worthwhile project but a small 3.2km addition from Southland to Sandringham is supported by many and logical

Fawkner is a dud, Reservior can be considered a dud. Better choices include Campbellfield and Coburg for connections on the Upfield Line or Preston, Thomastown or Epping on the Mernda Line.

SE section is fine you could even deviate a little to a station at Dingley Village and connect to the huge housing development and population. There is also a proposed water park that might be built down there, Hawthorn future training ground, Kingston Heath Complex, Employment areas around DFO and Moorabbin Airport

Again it’s an option otherwise there’s also merit for a station in Moorabbin for the big population, future housing and established employment centre

The western section of SRL can be the new Wyndham Vale Line from Sunshine that connects to Werribee and Point Cook.
ptvcommuter
Adding 3 kilometres of tunnels may be small compared with the overall scope of the project. But 3 kilometres of tunnels adds about 2-3 billion dollars to the cost and would take longer to construct or require extra machines to dig underneath. Adding to the challenges of digging close to the bay. For that reason connecting the last connection at Sandringham would be not practical. It would be wise to spend those 2-3 billion dollars somewhere else.

Fawkner may change to Gowrie. But Reservoir as a dud? Come on, are you serious? Anyways the Northern section is the last section so it can change. But logically try to make the loop as direct as possible, not divert it out and in.

The section btw Chelt and Clayton, could have a station, maybe? I would leave room for a station, but building it, I'm not sure?

There is no pipe dream to connect SRL with Point-Cook. Point-Cook needs light-rail not heavy rail.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

@True Believers

Fawkner may change to Gowrie’

Both Fawkner and Gowrie are duds. Campbellfield and Coburg have much more merit

‘There is no pipe dream to connect SRL with Point-Cook. Point-Cook needs light-rail not heavy rail’

I’m saying it should be considered. It would be above ground and it has a huge
population, 50K and growing. The western section needs huge work and the west is poorly served by PT in general

‘Adding 3 kilometres of tunnels may be small compared with the overall scope of the project. But 3 kilometres of tunnels adds about 2-3 billion dollars to the cost and would take longer to construct or require extra machines to dig underneath. Adding to the challenges of digging close to the bay. For that reason connecting the last connection at Sandringham would be not practical. It would be wise to spend those 2-3 billion dollars somewhere else’


It’s quite practical, 3km connection to Sandringham is a must

But Reservoir as a dud? Come on, are you serious? Anyways the Northern section is the last section so it can change. But logically try to
make the loop as direct as possible, not divert it out and in’

Reservoir has little potential. Epping and Thomastown are established employment centres and have larger population. Same applies to
Preston on a smaller scale. Reservoir only works as a connecting station for Mernda Line passengers

Doesn’t matter how direct the loop is or what directions it goes in, that won’t impact  travel times
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Doesn’t matter how direct the loop is or what directions it goes in, that won’t impact  travel times
ptvcommuter

I try to be patient, but... really?
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Both Fawkner and Gowrie are duds. Campbellfield and Coburg have much more merit

I’m saying it should be considered. It would be above ground and it has a huge
population, 50K and growing. The western section needs huge work and the west is poorly served by PT in general

It’s quite practical, 3km connection to Sandringham is a must

Reservoir has little potential. Epping and Thomastown are established employment centres and have larger population. Same applies to
Preston on a smaller scale. Reservoir only works as a connecting station for Mernda Line passengers

Doesn’t matter how direct the loop is or what directions it goes in, that won’t impact  travel times
ptvcommuter
I've cut out the posts you've quoted to save space.
  • Given this line is about encouraging connections, people will still be able to access Coburg or Cambellfield by changing at Fawkner/Gowrie. In fact, some stations being built in areas that are not already developed will keep prices down, not disrupt the existing centres as much, and provide opportunities for rejuvenation.
  • Point Cook should be considered, but by experts, and not just done by drawing maps.
  • What are your qualifications in civil engineering that informs your view that a connection to Sandringham is practical? I'm just curious.
  • Reservoir as above for the Upfield Line options. The main point of the north eastern section is to connect the La Trobe University Campus. Providing the shortest link to the Mernda Line is a good idea, as it encourages those north and south to take the train and change rather than drive the whole way. And given the massive growth are to the north, full of young families who are going to grow up and potentially go to La Trobe Uni, a connection to the Mernda Line is a solid idea.
  • Yes it does. Sorry, but distance is the biggest factor in travel time.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Isn't this fascinating?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/9b53x7/the_five_most_populous_cities_of_victoria/?st=JLG3HNAH&sh=7de39a44
True Believers
No, not really.

Extended out, it hits Nowa Nowa.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
My comments in the other thread relate to the need for a business case for this project.  Do we really need one considering it will be publically owned and managed and the business plan for the loop would have been thought through?  How did they arrive at the station locations in the first place?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

How did they arrive at the station locations in the first place?
x31
Pages 24/25 in the pdf explains why they chose those particular station locations.
https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/325572/Suburban-Rail-Loop-Strategic-Assessment.pdf


My comments in the other thread related to the need for a business case for this project.  Do we really need one considering it will be publically owned and managed and the business plan for the loop would have been thought through?
x31
Yes, we do need a business case for this project. That's one assumption to claim it will be publically owned and managed. It's likely to have a Private Public Partnership (PPP) involved, to reduce the burden of the cost to taxpayers. But it isn't whether it's public or not that determines if the project needs a business case.

All projects that cost above 100 million dollars, needs to be assessed thoroughly to see whether this project is worth paying for.

And yes while the 10 billion dollars have been pledged prematurely, it will only be transferred after the business case is delivered. Only then we can see more information about the project and how beneficial it would be to the state.

In the meantime, railpagers will speculate on the benefits and costs. Also may foam about what route they would like. But at the end of the day, the business case and thoroughly assessing the project through evidence-based research will determine and refine the proposed project and see how to make this project a successful investment. I would argue that other major and minor transport investments that should be delivered before the opening of the full SRL route.

Major projects such as the Melbourne Metro 2, Add capacity on the Dandenong line & electrifying intercity regional routes.
Meanwhile also minor investments such as improving the existing tram network, improve bus routes and coordination, improve the frequency of services across the network and those really worthwhile tweaking to get most out of the existing infrastructure.

But nevertheless, a start on an orbital rail route will have merits, especially the proposed South East section where it's likely to be well utilized and be useful to densify the eastern suburbs. And while many argue a mixture of better orbital light-rail and buses are the solution, they would never be any quicker and transformative than heavy-rail/metro.

Anyways I hope this answers your question.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

“Finally”, ha. This could be the shortest time from conception to construction on a Victorian rail project since the start of the 20th century!

Timeframe is looking identical to Metro Tunnel, where consultation began in early 2015, site/geotechnical investigations later that year, EOIs in 2016, early works in 2017, major works begin in 2018.

Will line up VERY neatly with projected completion of TBM activity if they keep both projects on schedule, and a trip down the Monash will surely eventuate.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
AKA Surveying, I believe it when things are being dug up and built
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Actually, there are a number of issues to the western half of SRL

It doesn't seem to join nicely at Werribee if the Werribee line extends to Wyndham Vale and the Wyndham line is shared with both city-bound and SRL trains.

There would be a very sharp bend at Sunshine unless they separate the service.


While I'm in full support for the Western Rail Plan, I think the SRL route would conveniently make sense going from Sunshine to Newport via the Freight Corridor with new tracks going through there.

You can conveniently add a station for Altona North, and Newport would be a better interchange, you can access the Altona, Williamstown and Werribee corridors.

Meanwhile still extending the Werribee line to Wyndham Vale and introduce metro services to the city for Melton and Wyndham Vale.

This would mean the SRL service will only share the service along the Airport section and not share 3 different services on the route, simplifying the timetabling and allow high frequencies on SRL.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

@True Believers Can see this as an option

Using the Sunshine-Newport Line and also serving Altona Meadows, Point Cook and Werribee

The other option is for Melton to go via Metro Tunnel and the new Wyndham Vale line being served by the SRL with passengers going to the city changing at Sunshine.

Would have many stops in addition to Tarneit and Wyndham Vale such as Derimut, Truganina, David Rd and Sayers Rd

Going via Newport to Sunshine would be more direct and quicker but would it be utilised I’m not so sure

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