Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  John E Station Master

I am curious how the Werribee/Wyndham Vale connection will work. E.G. If you want to go from Hoppers Crossing to Sunshine you will you need to catch a train to Werribee (or whevever the terminus is) hop off and then wait for a train that takes you ro Sunshine via Wyndham Vale?

Or could the Werribee and Wyndham Vale lines become one continuous loop (with werribee city bound trains continuing to Sandringham?

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Has there ever been any discussion or plans about this project before this was announced by the Victorian premier?
simstrain
This specific project was announced before the election, as a whole it was a fresh idea, as PIMM said, parts of it are recycled from old ideas, but to put them all together in this form no, this is new.
What does it actually achieve?
simstrain
It provides a viable public transport option for people who currently don't have one. This gives more people the option of leaving the car at home. With Melbourne's population set to out-gun Sydney's in the next decade, the traffic in Melbourne is bad enough now, it will be unbearable if nothing is done. More public transport options are required, including more imaginative routes for heavy rail. That is what this is about.
Are there better projects to spend money on?
simstrain
Metro 2 could easily be defined as better, but that doesn't mean it can't happen at the same time, the SRL is going to be under construction at the same time as Metro 1, so theoretically Metro 2 can start afterwards and be built alongside SRL.
With this being a 50 year project what will happen if the state libs get elected in 2026 or a future election?
simstrain
The next state election is in 2022, by then the first 2 stages of SRL will be under construction, they being Cheltenham to Box Hill and Sunshine to Melbourne Airport. There is also a fair chance that Sunshine to Werribee will also be under construction. So if the Liberal party do get in after the next election, then they will have to cancel a project that is already under way, with thousands of jobs to be lost as a result. That would take some sort of ISIS inspired political suicide vest.

Of course they could cancel later parts of the project, but this would also prove politically difficult. In case you haven't noticed, the voters like their state governments spending money on major infrastructure. The last two state elections in Victoria have been largely decided by this factor.
Is it just a vanity project to out do the Metro projects being built Sydney?
simstrain
Sydney is irrelevant. Being from Sydney you may struggle to understand this concept Wink
Why isn't metro 2 being planned instead?
simstrain
To quote the little girl from the taco ad: "Why can't we have both?"
I agree, the silence about Metro 2 has been deafening, but my take on it is that they are waiting until Metro 1 is nearly done before they start on Metro 2, so we can probably expect to hear more about this around the next election in 2022.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I am curious how the Werribee/Wyndham Vale connection will work. E.G. If you want to go from Hoppers Crossing to Sunshine you will you need to catch a train to Werribee (or whatever the terminus is) hop off and then wait for a train that takes you to Sunshine via Wyndham Vale?

Or could the Werribee and Wyndham Vale lines become one continuous loop (with Werribee city bound trains continuing to Sandringham?
John E

If you live in Hoppers, you would catch the bus to Tarneit thence train to Sunshine...or you could catch train to Wyndham Vale thence train to Sunshine...or possibly the same train if it forms a loop.

Depends where in Hoppers you live.

Mike, aboard MS Mitnatsol, off Norway.
  Lockie91 Train Controller

Hope Glen Waverley is dumped. Should IMO be replaced with MONASH > CHADSTONE > HOLMESGLEN > BURWOOD.

Route is more direct, delivers a station to a massive catchment area of Chadstone. Still connects with the GW line. Possibility of connecting Alamein in as well. Chadstone is a bigger and more important hub than GW.
I can't quite tell if you're serious... route is more direct by going from Monash to Chadstone??? With the rail coming up from Clayton station to the university you're advocating a 90 degree turn to run a huge underground tunnel parallel to an existing railway, but about 2km North.  Draw that on a map and it's a giant zig-zag.

Using the Google Maps measure distance function I very roughly plotted Monash -> Chadstone -> Holmesglen station -> Deakin Uni and got about 10.2km, using the roundabout on Middle Rd as the point for Chadstone station and roughly the middle of the universities. Going via Glen Waverley station instead was 9.8km...

In constrast, the most direct route to Deakin via a station (Mount Waverley) is about 7.3km.
LeroyW

Roughly plotting on Google Maps (quite a cleaver little tool)

Clayton Station to Monash Uni (Using the open carpark off Scenic Blvd as the station location) is 2.1KM > Glen Waverley Station (Using the open car park off Coleman Pde as the station location) 6.3KM > Deakin University (Using Bennettswood Reserve off Burwood Hwy as the station location) for a total 'rough' distance of 12.1KM

Clayton Station to Monash Uni 2.1KM > Chadstone (Using the Bus interchange as the station location) 7.3KM > Holmesglen 8.9KM (location of the station would effect this.) > Deakin 12.3KM

So maybe not direct per say but a difference of a few hundred meters. Both routes have 90 degree bends in them, this is no problem at all. Would be a sweeping underground curve. It is worth remembering that the original route was planed by Development Victoria. As has been said many times on here, now it's been handed over to the planers at DoT number crunching will happen. The government will have a data on jobs, population growth and areas it wants to develop.(Plan Melbourne) This will way against the cost of the route and our old friend the cost benefit analysis will ultimately decide.

The most direct route may very well be chosen if the benefits of tunnelling to GW or Chadstone do not out-way the costs.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

The new rail loop should go via Mount Waverley.
If the loop goes via Glen Waverley, it ends up running parallel with the existing line for multiple kms to get back to Deakin University - a stupid design.
Mount Waverley is the shortest distance. It will reduce travel times for more than 90% of people using the new rail loop line.
I hope the Vic Government chooses the sensible option - Mount Waverley.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The route the Suburban Rail Loop should take is the route that would attract the most passengers. Glen Waverley is medium density, tending towards high density with a large population of students who are likely to be heading to both Deakin and Monash Universities.

This is why Glen Waverley has been chosen. It makes sense to me.
  John E Station Master

The route the Suburban Rail Loop should take is the route that would attract the most passengers. Glen Waverley is medium density, tending towards high density with a large population of students who are likely to be heading to both Deakin and Monash Universities.

This is why Glen Waverley has been chosen. It makes sense to me.
Gman_86
As someone said earlier on this thread, there are many bus lines that go through Glen Waverley. A Glen Waverley SRL station would be much more attractive for these passengers than Mount Waverley would be. The additional time for the other  90% of passengers would be minimal (maybe a minute or 2 tops).
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Glen Waverley:
10 x bus routes (Mount Waverley 2 - one of which originates at Glen Waverley)
Major shopping centre (The Glen)
2 x large hotels (ibis & Novotel)
  tom9876543 Train Controller

While there are some arguments for the new Suburban Rail Loop going via Glen Waverley, IMHO it is not the best option.

- Lots of bus routes go to Glen Waverley
Its not difficult for them to be rerouted to Mount Waverley

- Lots of students will use the SRL
If the SRL stops at Mount Waverley, this will reduce travel times for students going to Chadstone Tafe.
IMHO it is more important to assist students possibly traveling relatively far to Chadstone Tafe (and Deakin/Monash), instead of Students who we know are able to afford living in Glen Waverley. I think a student living in Dandenong going to Chadstone Tafe is more important than a student living in Glen Waverley. I think a student who lives in Reservoir traveling to Monash Uni is more important than a student living in Glen Waverley.
Students living in Glen Waverley will be able to take train to Mount Waverley and change to SRL, this will provide quicker times than current public transport options.

- Two large hotels
Wow really - I think if you can afford a hotel room you can afford Uber.
If you can afford a hotel room but not Uber, then yes your train travel will take another 5 - 10 mins if SRL stops at Mount Waverley. Bad luck.
Hotel customers are not the target market for public transport.

IMHO the supposed benefits of SRL station at Glen Waverley have been overstated.
The Mount Waverley station would improve travel times for 90% of SRL users, including those people who are traveling relatively far e.g. Dandenong to Box Hill. Mount Waverley should be the location of SRL stop.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Hotels employ staff. (MYOB has its headquarters at The Glen.)
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Hotels employ staff. (MYOB has its headquarters at The Glen.)
kitchgp
MYOB also has their own dedicated car park in The Glen too.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
An interchange + a 5 minute train trip at Mount Waverley to get to Glen Waverley is not a major compromise for making the Suburban Rail Loop shorter and faster overall.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
An interchange + a 5 minute train trip at Mount Waverley to get to Glen Waverley is not a major compromise for making the Suburban Rail Loop shorter and faster overall.
TOQ-1
That's how It's done In many European Cities.

Just provide good Interchange pedestrian access ways and useful Passenger Information Displays.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

An interchange + a 5 minute train trip at Mount Waverley to get to Glen Waverley is not a major compromise for making the Suburban Rail Loop shorter and faster overall.
TOQ-1


Nightfire That's how It's done In many European Cities. Just provide good Interchange pedestrian access ways and useful Passenger Information Displays.
Nightfire


Thank you for agreeing Mount Waverley is the better option for the SRL.
I hope someone from the Vic Transport Department reads the Railpage.com.au forums Smile
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

It was pointed out to me a while ago that in the glory days of RP, Jim Betts would post here sometimes in his capacity as DOI secretary.

Mr Younis, if you’re watching, we’re full of ideas, and a few of them are even good ones Razz
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Apart from linking Melbourne’s radial rail lines, connecting major centres where practical is an object of the project. Based on Melbourne Metro’s 2014 passenger stats Excel spreadsheet, Glen Waverley had 1.69 million passengers, Syndal 688,000, Mount Waverley 686,000, Holmesglen 657,000 and (for good measure) Jordanville 325,000. Keeping journeys as short as possible for as many people as possible is more likely to encourage people to use the train rather than a car.

Terrain and engineering are other factors. A line via Mount Waverley has to cross Scotchmans Creek, either over it (viaduct – don’t mention Skyrail) or under it (tunnel). Travel on EastLink through either the Mullum Mullum or Melba tunnels gives an idea of the depth required to get under a simple creek such as the Mullum Mullum. A straight line doesn’t always accommodate realistic gradients, a consideration if problems like Sydney’s rail tunnel under the Lane Cove River had are to be avoided.

Anyway, coming up with a balanced design is what the $300 million is for.
  @Capacity Station Staff

Location: On the Gippsland line, stuck behind a metro
Media release from the government on preferred SE section.
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-authority-and-preferred-route-for-suburban-rail-loop/
  @Capacity Station Staff

Location: On the Gippsland line, stuck behind a metro
Sorry, should have written 'government creates new authority for SRL'
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Proposed network and stations

  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Very interesting to see the loop now using the Werribee - Wyndham Vale - Deer Park - Sunshine alignment.  I'm not at all surprised, to be honest.  And it locks in SRL and MARL as Broad Gauge.

DD707 needs to let rip with an extended guitar solo...
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More details: https://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-47203/
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Very interesting to see the loop now using the Werribee - Wyndham Vale - Deer Park - Sunshine alignment.  I'm not at all surprised, to be honest.  And it locks in SRL and MARL as Broad Gauge.

Carnot

The idea of being able to transfer for the airport line from either Broadmeadows and Sunshine will make a lot of sense.   Coming from the eastern suburbs to the airport one will not need to route via the city, rather changes can be orchestrated onto the loop line to where the airport line resides.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Incidentally, I sure hope there's a few more intermediate stations built than are marked on that map.  Quite a few big gaps IMO.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Using the RRL from Sunshine to Werribee isn't that unexpected - it's been that way in the basic plan for a long while. The interesting part of that will be how they manage to turn the corner - it will either mean some long underground corner, or bypassing Sunshine Station entirely. The Western section is of course still undercooked compared to the Eastern section which is still to undergo proper analysis by the new authority.


I do think they are being overly optimistic with the timeline though - Metro I has been in planning (with interruptions) for almost 10 years and is only going into it's main construction phase now. They want to plan and start building a completely underground 20+km line from Cheltenham to Box Hill within 3 years. That is before lots of important decisions like what trains will be used (with the problems with the HCMT, I can't see those being selected without modification), where they will be stabled, train and platform length and so on. I can see it happening, just not going into construction within 3 years.

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