Blayney, Milthorpe, Orange daily service

 
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

At the rate of people wanting to extend the bathurst bullet, by 2025 the bathurst bullet will be the daily narromine bullet.

Sponsored advertisement

  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

One big draw card of the Bullet, is the limited stops east of Lithgow. Should a shuttle service be introduced further west, not as far Narromine, Tazzer.Laughing It should be connected to a not all stations, sparked, under the wires.
Not sure of the numbers, when I've observed the bullet, pretty full around Springwood plenty of times.
Regards, Mick.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Very likely true, but the sad reality is, even though it could be full to capacity, it isn't going to cover its' operating cost. Public transport rarely, if ever, does, in Australia at least... So it's easier (not as much planning, paperwork etc), cheaper (no new rollingstock, no extra paths) and faster for the Gumbyment to say "Well, they have a train service now that's only 55% utilised, why spend millions giving them a new one that there's no assurance of paying for itself?"

Using Victoria as a model for intercity services as I'm sure Gladys' team is, the new thinking is build or provide it and they will come.
Your Victorian "build it and they will come" claim is just as flawed here as it was in the Mildura context; the evidence doesn't exist for journey times >2 hours.
potatoinmymouth

The proof of the pudding is in the eating...nuff said.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The times i've seen the bullet i has always been very well loaded.  However, i can't help but think of whether it would be more economical if it wasn't a direct service but it was a bathurst to lithgow shuttle that connects with a very limited stop DD electric at lithgow, along with a fairly regular express service.  Eg lithgow-mt victoria-katoomba-springwood-penrith-blacktown-parramatta-strathfield-central.
Or if the bullet ran complete express from lithgow to central but connected with a service similar to the above at lithgow.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The times i've seen the bullet i has always been very well loaded.  However, i can't help but think of whether it would be more economical if it wasn't a direct service but it was a bathurst to lithgow shuttle that connects with a very limited stop DD electric at lithgow, along with a fairly regular express service.  Eg lithgow-mt victoria-katoomba-springwood-penrith-blacktown-parramatta-strathfield-central.
Or if the bullet ran complete express from lithgow to central but connected with a service similar to the above at lithgow.
tazzer96

You're a very brave man indeed...suggesting the pax on a very well patronised and in Winter a very warm train, step off at Lithgow...in the dark and in a -7c frost to drag themselves to a another train...all for economics...hmm.

M.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

You can't deny that a 2 car DMU service that runs under wires for roughly 3/4 of it's journey up and down long and steep inclines isn't going to be cheap.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
You can't deny that a 2 car DMU service that runs under wires for roughly 3/4 of it's journey up and down long and steep inclines isn't going to be cheap.
tazzer96
Does anyone know what the cost differential is for spark vs diesel?
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

Vinelande, you are correct about Lithgow weather, I've seen it dark, freezing, sleat/snow/hail, in the afternoon, between Xmas and New year. It's a lovely place.
Note, still have family there.
And for those unfamiliar, Lithgow station is literally built in a hole.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
There are many arguments locally as to where City Rail ends and Countrylink begins.

Rumours abound that City Rail Ends at Mt Victoria and that City Rail have to pay Country link a fee to use the line west to Lithgow or Bathurst.
Its this idea that has had many concerned when it was proposed to work on the Ten Tunnels to accommodate the new wider rolling stock being introduced.
Because there are no electric Engines in service, the overhead wiring has been removed at various locations as being redundant and that is another rumour being bandied about for that to happen to the line west of Mt Victoria.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

.....Lithgow weather, I've seen it dark, freezing, sleat/snow/hail, in the afternoon, between Xmas and New year. It's a lovely place. ...

And for those unfamiliar, Lithgow station is literally built in a hole.
michaelgm

In the short term:

1. Maybe it is possible to run the diesels from Lithgow with an electric service waiting on the other platform [like at Kiama].
As for the elements, it might be cheeeper to roof the entire station complex over, given that it is "built in a hole".

2. Improve the bus services timetable for B,M,and O residents.

3. Alternatively, reintroduce hook and pull services.

Long term:

1. Electrify the line to Bathurst and run regular Interurbans from Sydney Terminal to Bathurst. V-Sets would make for a great journey, but sadly, prepare to sit backwards (in an electric chair), with their replacement sets.
2. Manufacture more rolling stock for the XPT replacement. The greater Bathurst area has approximately 42,000 residents and it is guesstimated that there will be 55,000 residents by 2036. According to the 2016 Census, the Orange Population was around 37,000. Sydney has run out of space, and people are fed up with the cost of housing. Their option is to move to the south west, go west or pay rent for ever.

Build the infrastructure now, and people will consider relocating sooner or later.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Vinelande, you are correct about Lithgow weather, I've seen it dark, freezing, sleat/snow/hail, in the afternoon, between Xmas and New year. It's a lovely place.
Note, still have family there.
And for those unfamiliar, Lithgow station is literally built in a hole.
michaelgm
More like a wind tunnel than a hole.  At least in older days there was very nice open fires in the waiting rooms there for those hardy passengers who got on there and had to wait for their train, same with the wonderful ref room.

Probably only got a couple of strip heaters and vending machines that work sometimes there now.

Was a long walk in middle winter from Loco to the Station to catch on of the mails or other trains back to Sydney home passenger, with the wind that blew down the line and through the deep cutting.  Never worked to Lithgow, in any season without taking warm cloths suitable for winter.
  a6et Minister for Railways

.....Lithgow weather, I've seen it dark, freezing, sleat/snow/hail, in the afternoon, between Xmas and New year. It's a lovely place. ...

And for those unfamiliar, Lithgow station is literally built in a hole.

In the short term:

1. Maybe it is possible to run the diesels from Lithgow with an electric service waiting on the other platform [like at Kiama].
As for the elements, it might be cheeeper to roof the entire station complex over, given that it is "built in a hole".

2. Improve the bus services timetable for B,M,and O residents.

3. Alternatively, reintroduce hook and pull services.

Long term:

1. Electrify the line to Bathurst and run regular Interurbans from Sydney Terminal to Bathurst. V-Sets would make for a great journey, but sadly, prepare to sit backwards (in an electric chair), with their replacement sets.
2. Manufacture more rolling stock for the XPT replacement. The greater Bathurst area has approximately 42,000 residents and it is guesstimated that there will be 55,000 residents by 2036. According to the 2016 Census, the Orange Population was around 37,000. Sydney has run out of space, and people are fed up with the cost of housing. Their option is to move to the south west, go west or pay rent for ever.

Build the infrastructure now, and people will consider relocating sooner or later.
ANR
Like Kiama Lithgow has an island platform that is easy to change trains as one only has to walk to the other side, Mt Vic is not an island platform so either a change at the up or down platform would be needed unless the passengers have to walk over the footbridge, another not unpleasant location in winter to do that.
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

ANR, the line is/was electrified as far as Bowenfells.
Won't be going any further west.

A6et, was trying to be polite, referring to the station being in a hole, have a look from scenic hill, the whole place is a hole!
Note, still have family there. Ducking for cover.
  a6et Minister for Railways

ANR, the line is/was electrified as far as Bowenfells.
Won't be going any further west.

A6et, was trying to be polite, referring to the station being in a hole, have a look from scenic hill, the whole place is a hole!
Note, still have family there. Ducking for cover.
michaelgm
As I mentioned its been some years since I was there, IIRC 2012, sure there were vacant buildings but on that day there were a lot of people there, going to the station it was in good order and well maintained. barriers along the coping were in place to try and stop idiots from the line but then again, there's not many lines that are not fenced off with barbed wire perimeter's around the state.

Last year my wife and I drove up to Tamworth for a close friends 80th birthday, going there through Wallabadah and back via WCK & Quirindi was for me the most depressing that I can remember as I worked there from 1969 - 1971, then returned in 82 before being medically retired end of 2008, and leaving end of 2009.  

While neither places were great metropolises they were very vibrant in different ways, even when the cost cutting impacted the place during the drought, all the primary businesses were open in both places and only an odd shop not open, none of the old corner stores that were part of the towns in the back streets were open in the 60's though.

My wife wanted to go and see our old home, but having seen photo's of it, and the fact it was raining on the day, I said no, and just wanted to get out.  Going through Quirindi, to me it was actually worse than WCK.

For me, rural NSW is dying and no longer slowly, WCK may get a bit of a boost from the new Crawfords operations there but, it and many others will be on life support for the rest of their times.  Millthorpe being a hole is like many others though.  Some places rejoice when a by pass is built, but where are they today health wise, and how many holes as such are around?

Have driven through and been in many similar places over the years, and seems that there are a whole lot of holes around. Perhaps, as I suggested early on something of the tourist aspect with the gold mine and other areas could help them a bit, some decent promotions also wouldn't hurt.
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

The biggest attraction in Lithgow at present, is the fast food restaurant, corner GWH and Main st. Been past at all hours week days and weekends, always cars in car park.
As for WCK, last time I was there, was with 3801ltd. Not sure when. Bumped into a bloke I used to work for, who was also on the trip. Cheers, old mate Andy, if you read this. And thanks for the ride home.
The place was a buzz, with people from the train. Just enough time for a feed and a couple of schooners.
And your place at Quirindi, I wouldn't have gone back either. My deceased grandmothers house is in the Norahhead Toukley area, and is basically a holiday house for family, I've never been back there.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The biggest attraction in Lithgow at present, is the fast food restaurant, corner GWH and Main st. Been past at all hours week days and weekends, always cars in car park.
As for WCK, last time I was there, was with 3801ltd. Not sure when. Bumped into a bloke I used to work for, who was also on the trip. Cheers, old mate Andy, if you read this. And thanks for the ride home.
The place was a buzz, with people from the train. Just enough time for a feed and a couple of schooners.
And your place at Quirindi, I wouldn't have gone back either. My deceased grandmothers house is in the Norahhead Toukley area, and is basically a holiday house for family, I've never been back there.
michaelgm
Our place was at WCK, on the other side of the pool could look over the land to the range and see few farms and the view was great, sort of owning it, no rates or work to do on it.

Andy, not a photographer from Thornton? If so he and I had a nice four week time in China some years back.
  Throughwestmail Train Controller

There are many arguments locally as to where City Rail ends and Countrylink begins.

Rumours abound that City Rail Ends at Mt Victoria and that City Rail have to pay Country link a fee to use the line west to Lithgow or Bathurst.
Its this idea that has had many concerned when it was proposed to work on the Ten Tunnels to accommodate the new wider rolling stock being introduced.
Because there are no electric Engines in service, the overhead wiring has been removed at various locations as being redundant and that is another rumour being bandied about for that to happen to the line west of Mt Victoria.
gordon_s1942
CityRail and Countrylink no longer exist. Sydney Trains owns and maintains all infrastructure between Newcastle, Bomaderry, Lithgow and Macarthur. The rural NSW rail services are operated by NSW Trainlink. NSW Trainlink does not own any infrastructure.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Michaelgm, I know what you meant.... It is not the first time I have heard that description being from upper mountains...
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Only the names have been changed to confound, confuse and completely bewilder everybody.

I was going to conclude in my comment that those names (CityRail/Country Link) I used most likely didnt exist anymore but I thought I would leave that to someone else .
I started with the NSWTD/GR who became the SRA and the PTC,CityRail and Country Link before I left so whats in a Name???
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

A6et, different Andy.
Mick"
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Locals are petitioning for this service as an extension of the daily Bathurst run.

How could this work? Are there enough Endeavours/Explorers and XPTs to go around? Is this a return to the hook and pull scenario of a few years ago? Should the line to Bathurst be electrified to guarantee Bathurst it's daily services?

Should the proposed Orange services just get more rubber?
Would you consider spending billions to electrify to Bathurst a good business decision for 1 or 2 trains a day?
theanimal

If the line was electrified to Bathurst (I am not saying it should just if) then bathurst would most likely get more then 1 or 2 trains a day.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Locals are petitioning for this service as an extension of the daily Bathurst run.

How could this work? Are there enough Endeavours/Explorers and XPTs to go around? Is this a return to the hook and pull scenario of a few years ago? Should the line to Bathurst be electrified to guarantee Bathurst it's daily services?

Should the proposed Orange services just get more rubber?
Would you consider spending billions to electrify to Bathurst a good business decision for 1 or 2 trains a day?

If the line was electrified to Bathurst (I am not saying it should just if) then bathurst would most likely get more then 1 or 2 trains a day.
simstrain
The line between Lithgow and Bathurst is controlled by John Holland. In the other areas that they control, they have no electric traction, therefore no need to have an Elec Operating Section, no need to train their Network Controllers and track workers in the various rules for operating in an electric section.

Why would they want to enter into a situation that offers them no financial benefit, but will cost them money?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

John holland operates the network for transport for nsw and so that piece of track can be handed to the sydney trains network without any issue. The difference south of macarthur is that the ARTC paid a big sum of money to the NSW Government to lease the main south which is why that will not be electrified unless the lease is revoked and the line becomes part of the CRN. But that will likely make the federal government unhappy.
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

John holland operates the network for transport for nsw and so that piece of track can be handed to the sydney trains network without any issue. The difference south of macarthur is that the ARTC paid a big sum of money to the NSW Government to lease the main south which is why that will not be electrified unless the lease is revoked and the line becomes part of the CRN. But that will likely make the federal government unhappy.
simstrain

Stand-by for some announcements from NSW state government in the next 24 hours about service improvements for country trains.
Some of it will be re-announcing the already made statements about XPT replacements, but there will be more on the table than just this. It was the lead item on tonight's ABC news. Statements were made about significant transit time improvements. Tomorrow we may see just what is on the table.

Still, I expect the usual doubters to say that it will never happen, and that they will just do bus replacements for the XPT instead.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

How many times will the NSW Govt announce the XPT replacement or the V-Set Replacement? It sounds like a platform announcement for a late running train, playing over and over again like a broken gramophone.... only to be followed up by a cancellation notice.....

... if the tram fiasco is anything to go on....

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: a6et, ANR, KRviator, RTT_Rules, theanimal

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.