Great Southern Rail to launch Adelaide-Brisbane service

 
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I have no doubt they did their research and I am sure it will be a success for them. They have done very well with the IP and Ghan and have certainly transformed the rail tour experience, esp with the off train schedule.

My thoughts were more about keeping the new service (intercapital?) separated from the (outback style) IP or Ghan brands which have been around for ages.
ANR

Missing the point completely.

It's another 'luxury' tourist service complementing the Ghan and the IP.

It is not an intercapital public service as such (pedants can p!ss of now)

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I have no doubt they did their research and I am sure it will be a success for them. They have done very well with the IP and Ghan and have certainly transformed the rail tour experience, esp with the off train schedule.

My thoughts were more about keeping the new service (intercapital?) separated from the (outback style) IP or Ghan brands which have been around for ages.
ANR
I think it is "outback" style or certainly will be once the Inland is complete, however the "outback" just isn't as "outback" as IP and Ghan and will have I think a very different market attraction. Does every train trip need to run through a desert to be attractive? From an international tourist perspective, Perth and Darwin are very much out of the way and not suited to everyone. Adelaide to Brisbane and VV is closer to the mainstream tourism areas of the East Coast.

With the pending loss of the Overland, its good to see GSR looking for other opportunistic for their staff and rolling stock and as I said I believe ultimately post Inland we will see potentially a regular (of sorts) service to Brisbane without having to use the well trodden route used by the XPT for most of the way.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Even in Central this train would have to be broken in two.  Its a big train...

There is no SG at Central and even if there was I don't think the platforms are even that long!
Ha sorry Graham - I meant the NSW Central!!
But the train doesn't even go there!*
Graham4405
That wasn't my point, my point if I may labor it is that is a big train that even the biggest stations in Australia cant handle it.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I have no doubt they did their research and I am sure it will be a success for them. They have done very well with the IP and Ghan and have certainly transformed the rail tour experience, esp with the off train schedule.

My thoughts were more about keeping the new service (intercapital?) separated from the (outback style) IP or Ghan brands which have been around for ages.
I think it is "outback" style or certainly will be once the Inland is complete, however the "outback" just isn't as "outback" as IP and Ghan and will have I think a very different market attraction. Does every train trip need to run through a desert to be attractive? From an international tourist perspective, Perth and Darwin are very much out of the way and not suited to everyone. Adelaide to Brisbane and VV is closer to the mainstream tourism areas of the East Coast.

With the pending loss of the Overland, its good to see GSR looking for other opportunistic for their staff and rolling stock and as I said I believe ultimately post Inland we will see potentially a regular (of sorts) service to Brisbane without having to use the well trodden route used by the XPT for most of the way.
RTT_Rules
I see that post Inland, the IP might have a split/join at Parkes with one part going to SYD and the other to BNE.

And sans overland, I think that looking again at a Ghan extension to MEL might be a useful examination given the previous time it ran it was the Overland that killed it due to competition (if i have my facts correctly aligned)...

It is a pity that the track north of BNE is not SG as I can imagine some sort of Pacific Coast tour train to/from Cairns would do well, via either the Inland or Sydney to Melbourne
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

And sans overland, I think that looking again at a Ghan extension to MEL might be a useful examination given the previous time it ran it was the Overland that killed it due to competition (if i have my facts correctly aligned)...
james.au
Your facts are not correctly aligned.

The Adelaide-Melbourne sector of the Ghan in the Serco-GSR days was just a normal Overland running in its normal path with a handful of cars from the Ghan attached for through passengers. They weren't competing, they were one and the same.

There was a wait of quite a few hours in Adelaide between the Ghan proper terminating and the Overland-Ghan departing, and the through passengers had to get off the train in that time while their cars were cut out of the Ghan consist and attached to the Overland.

I can't see Journey Beyond repeating it. It is their off-train experiences which have turned the muddled confusion of the AN/Serco trains (which never knew whether they were tourism packages or public transport, and did both badly) into a real tourism success story, and extending the journey to Melbourne would require them to drop one each way so the train can do the full return trip inside a week. They understand the tourism market too well to make the same mistakes the Serco-GSR did.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
And sans overland, I think that looking again at a Ghan extension to MEL might be a useful examination given the previous time it ran it was the Overland that killed it due to competition (if i have my facts correctly aligned)...
Your facts are not correctly aligned.

The Adelaide-Melbourne sector of the Ghan in the Serco-GSR days was just a normal Overland running in its normal path with a handful of cars from the Ghan attached for through passengers. They weren't competing, they were one and the same.

There was a wait of quite a few hours in Adelaide between the Ghan proper terminating and the Overland-Ghan departing, and the through passengers had to get off the train in that time while their cars were cut out of the Ghan consist and attached to the Overland.

I can't see Journey Beyond repeating it. It is their off-train experiences which have turned the muddled confusion of the AN/Serco trains (which never knew whether they were tourism packages or public transport, and did both badly) into a real tourism success story, and extending the journey to Melbourne would require them to drop one each way so the train can do the full return trip inside a week. They understand the tourism market too well to make the same mistakes the Serco-GSR did.
justapassenger
Thanks for the factual clarification.
  Trans-Siberian Station Master

Location: Krasnoyarsk, Siberia
That wasn't my point, my point if I may labor it is that is a big train that even the biggest stations in Australia cant handle it.
james.au

As long as we are in a country that speaks the Queen's English...You may NOT "labor"....but; You MAY "labour"....!
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: In exile
it is a pit that the track north of BNE is not SG as I can imagine some sort of Pacific Coast tour train to/from Cairns would do well, via either the Inland or Sydney to Melbourne
james.au
Can you say GSPE? That went well now didn't it?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
it is a pit that the track north of BNE is not SG as I can imagine some sort of Pacific Coast tour train to/from Cairns would do well, via either the Inland or Sydney to Melbourne
Can you say GSPE? That went well now didn't it?
Graham4405
First time I heard of it.  Not sure how extensive the southern excursions were but the wiki writeup makes it sound like a QR boondoggle.  JB with a single train of rolling stock I expect would fare better.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: In exile
it is a pit that the track north of BNE is not SG as I can imagine some sort of Pacific Coast tour train to/from Cairns would do well, via either the Inland or Sydney to Melbourne
Can you say GSPE? That went well now didn't it?
First time I heard of it.  Not sure how extensive the southern excursions were but the wiki writeup makes it sound like a QR boondoggle.  JB with a single train of rolling stock I expect would fare better.
james.au
This was a single train with a change of loco and bogie exchange performed on the carriages at Acacia Ridge.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I think it is "outback" style or certainly will be once the Inland is complete, however the "outback" just isn't as "outback" as IP and Ghan and will have I think a very different market attraction. Does every train trip need to run through a desert to be attractive? From an international tourist perspective, Perth and Darwin are very much out of the way and not suited to everyone. Adelaide to Brisbane and VV is closer to the mainstream tourism areas of the East Coast.

With the pending loss of the Overland, its good to see GSR looking for other opportunistic for their staff and rolling stock and as I said I believe ultimately post Inland we will see potentially a regular (of sorts) service to Brisbane without having to use the well trodden route used by the XPT for most of the way.
I see that post Inland, the IP might have a split/join at Parkes with one part going to SYD and the other to BNE.

And sans overland, I think that looking again at a Ghan extension to MEL might be a useful examination given the previous time it ran it was the Overland that killed it due to competition (if i have my facts correctly aligned)...

It is a pity that the track north of BNE is not SG as I can imagine some sort of Pacific Coast tour train to/from Cairns would do well, via either the Inland or Sydney to Melbourne
james.au
I looked at this some time ago, I'm not sure by maybe the trip to Brisbane was much longer than Syd so the turn around at Syd will need to be slowed. But agree it would potentially be an option for GSR to boost the numbers east of Adelaide.

Re: Overland, I'm not sure why they don't do this now or previously. Cancel one OL service and just run the Ghan through.

There is no need for continuation nth of BNE and as others have pointed out it was done (GPSE) and a general failure of the however a few factors to look at;
1) What is the advantage of a costly bogie change, just use a SG train to meet.
2) Running NG stock south of the border just transfers the narrow loading gauge restrictions south of the border
3) the train was a gold plated body on a lemon set of bogies and ex guards van frames that was so bad the train in the end would stop for 6h a night to let people sleep.
4) Ear plugs were issued to passengers
5) Yes it was a QR balls up project, but also hit by Sept 11 crash in Yank tourism, however QR's lack of interest to return the service shows QR did their market research.

But yes if SG ran to Cairns, yes the GSR train could run to Cairns and likely do well if the mistakes of QR are not repeated.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Why is the Ghan no longer running from Sydney? Was this service cannibalising the IP?  One would think it would be a popular service, particularly in winter months.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Why is the Ghan no longer running from Sydney? Was this service cannibalising the IP?  One would think it would be a popular service, particularly in winter months.
ANR
The Ghan was ran from Melbourne on a trial basis some years ago, I cannot ever recall it running from Sydney ever.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Why is the Ghan no longer running from Sydney? Was this service cannibalising the IP?  One would think it would be a popular service, particularly in winter months.
The Ghan was ran from Melbourne on a trial basis some years ago, I cannot ever recall it running from Sydney ever.
trainbrain
AN tried it for a few years in the 1980s, replacing one Indian Pacific each week with 'The Alice' from Sydney to Alice Springs. Patronage was poor and it didn't last long.

Serco-GSR tried Alice-Sydney in about 2001 or so, I think at the same time they tried extending the Ghan to Melbourne. It was no more successful than the AN attempt.

Journey Beyond is managed by people who understand that the 'real' Ghan runs from Darwin to Port Augusta, not Darwin to Adelaide. Once you get to Port Augusta, you've seen and done everything that is unique about the Ghan and you're ready to head home by the most convenient method possible.

On a trip to Darwin, starting in Sydney would ruin the experience as you would be too fatigued from the bone-rattling ARTC track west of Parkes to enjoy the experience once you get to where the real Ghan starts.
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Journey Beyond is managed by people who understand that the 'real' Ghan runs from Darwin to Port Augusta, not Darwin to Adelaide. Once you get to Port Augusta, you've seen and done everything that is unique about the Ghan and you're ready to head home by the most convenient method possible.
justapassenger
Pity "Adelaide" station is so far from Adelaide. Not convenient. They should run the standard gauge into Webb's old station.

But the worst part about getting off the Ghan in Adelaide is the horrible realization you've got to fend for yourself again. There's no-one handing you a glass of champagne anymore.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It sure is convenient. You can get to the airport without battling through city traffic.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I looked at this some time ago, I'm not sure by maybe the trip to Brisbane was much longer than Syd so the turn around at Syd will need to be slowed. But agree it would potentially be an option for GSR to boost the numbers east of Adelaide.
RTT_Rules

Yep 950km vs 400km would require different management, maybe 2 sets for the BNE-Parkes leg, though it will be travelling much faster than the Sydney leg im sure.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
And sans overland, I think that looking again at a Ghan extension to MEL might be a useful examination given the previous time it ran it was the Overland that killed it due to competition (if i have my facts correctly aligned)...
Your facts are not correctly aligned.

The Adelaide-Melbourne sector of the Ghan in the Serco-GSR days was just a normal Overland running in its normal path with a handful of cars from the Ghan attached for through passengers. They weren't competing, they were one and the same.

There was a wait of quite a few hours in Adelaide between the Ghan proper terminating and the Overland-Ghan departing, and the through passengers had to get off the train in that time while their cars were cut out of the Ghan consist and attached to the Overland.

I can't see Journey Beyond repeating it. It is their off-train experiences which have turned the muddled confusion of the AN/Serco trains (which never knew whether they were tourism packages or public transport, and did both badly) into a real tourism success story, and extending the journey to Melbourne would require them to drop one each way so the train can do the full return trip inside a week. They understand the tourism market too well to make the same mistakes the Serco-GSR did.
justapassenger

I wrote a lengthy reply to this, but Railpage swallowed it up.

Basically what is written above by JOP is totally incorrect. The Ghan ran as a totally separate through service and there is plenty of photographic evidence to back it up.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I wrote a lengthy reply to this, but Railpage swallowed it up.

Basically what is written above by JOP is totally incorrect. The Ghan ran as a totally separate through service and there is plenty of photographic evidence to back it up.
bingley hall
Thats what I had in my mind.  I think @Pressman* was the source of my learning this.  

(*Speaking of, anyone seen him post lately)?
  Travelling Hooker Locomotive Driver

Location: Follows the weather up and down the coast
Afternoon

I don't want to appear as a lazy nob but can anyone point me to where I'd find a detailed timetable of the Great Southern train? I've had a look at the ARTC site and a fling on Google but got nowhere

Cheers
  DM45 Station Master

Location: Redland City
Hi Travelling Hooker, if you go to the ARTC website, in the For Our Customers section, you will find Notices. At the very bottom of the list you will find TAAs, these are advices for ad hoc services etc, such as the Great Southern trips. There is one issued for each individual trip. So far they have been issued for four trips.

Don.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Afternoon

I don't want to appear as a lazy nob but can anyone point me to where I'd find a detailed timetable of the Great Southern train? I've had a look at the ARTC site and a fling on Google but got nowhere

Cheers
Travelling Hooker
This where you need to go.

Trip 1:

https://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TAA/Files/1333-2019.PDF?1220431349

Trip 2:

https://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TAA/Files/1338-2019.PDF?1220431349

Trip 3:

https://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TAA/Files/1375-2019.PDF?1220431349

Trip 4:

https://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TAA/Files/1376-2019.PDF?1220431349
  WimmeraJack Station Staff

Stopped at Stawell this afternoon.  Blocked off two level crossings for a while.  27 cars in total.
  WimmeraJack Station Staff

Stopped at Stawell this afternoon.  Blocked off two level crossings for a while.  27 cars in total.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Looks like it was "undersold" by 8 travellers.

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