NSW election thread 2019

 
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I read simstrain with interest, because he obviously believes that sports stadiums are the most important things for taxpayers to fund.
I happen to disagree very strongly with this idea, and I am on the side of people who want infrastructure in country areas (a) for their quality of life and (b) to induce decentralisation.

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  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I read simstrain with interest, because he obviously believes that sports stadiums are the most important things for taxpayers to fund.
I happen to disagree very strongly with this idea, and I am on the side of people who want infrastructure in country areas (a) for their quality of life and (b) to induce decentralisation.
Valvegear
The only parts of NSW that are important to the polies are the areas bounded by Newcastle, Lithgow and likely Nowra. Plus the occasional marginal seat in the never, never.
The continued and legally challenged demo of the stadium whist the government was essentially in caretaker mode, is the height of arrogance.
My Mrs is taking her big stick to the ballot box tomorrow, with Gladys's name on it.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Prediction? Politicians or would-be pollies salivating at the idea of getting their snouts in the trough.
Valvegear
Two more predictions.
losers. people lining said trough with dollars.
Winners. Comfortable and highly paid position(s) available on a company board that may, let's say construct stadiums, or involved in major events?
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

As for you ANR did you want Milthorpe to have an expensive brand spanking new 8 car platform with double tracks just to pick up a handful of passengers a day. Now that would have been a waste of money.

simstrain
I think Milthorpe should get its original platform back. If it needs to be expanded to accommodate 8 cars, so be it (unsure of its current length).

By making such towns feel and look important, it will get more visitors (from Sydney). By getting visitors it would not have otherwise had, it will help the local economy. Some visitors may come back again and again, choosing to settle (tree change/retirement etc). This will happen because Sydney residents will want something else, instead of a lifetime mortgage around their necks, job insecurity, standing in road traffic for hours, or on crowded trains daily. The private sector can pay for the stadiums - e.g. title sponsors, the NRL itself, who cares? The congestion and overpopulation in Sydney (housing affordability) is unsustainable and it has reached a critical mass where throwing more money at the problem will just make it worse. We live in a BIG BEAUTIFUL country and proceeds of the sale of public assets should be divvied more thoughtfully and with some greater vision.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I read simstrain with interest, because he obviously believes that sports stadiums are the most important things for taxpayers to fund.
I happen to disagree very strongly with this idea, and I am on the side of people who want infrastructure in country areas (a) for their quality of life and (b) to induce decentralisation.
Valvegear

Not at all. I just disagree that the state government should be able to spend this money especially when the money is more then likely to be made back in the form of entertainment events in due course. I also disagree with the premise that money is not being spent on regional areas when there are quite a lot of new and refurbished schools and hospitals being built in these areas by this current government.

I also disagree with your decentralisation premise since what Victoria is achieving is nothing more then making Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo extended suburbs of Melbourne. Many of the towns west of the divide in NSW are self reliant with hospitals, schools, universities, big shopping centres, local sporting venues. Water resources and fixing roads is easily within the RMS premise without needing the $700 million from Allianz.

As part of redeveloping Allianz I believe the NSW Government stipulated to the NRL (privately) that they want more games in regional towns going forward with a permanent team west of divide in the future. Hopefully this will come at the expense of the Storm or the NZ warriors.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Sydney's housing crisis is because we have allowed foreign investors to buy residential properties and instead of renting the properties they are being left empty. This has changed recently and prices are starting to fall as the market is about to crash.

Nothing of what you have said ANR isn't possible with the new platform.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Sims, Sydney is an out of control Ponzi scheme. We need the foreign investment, because it funds our labourers, but it might be too simple to pinpoint this as the only cause of high property values.

If Sydney residents find the price of homeownership too high, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives in regional areas (Broken Hill is a bargain, and has great weather). The spare change from the sale of a Sydney property could allow people to retire early in the regions, and work part time if they wanted. Orange happens to be a popular alternative at the moment. One day, Orange and Bathurst will be financially out of reach making places like Milthorpe a lower cost alternative.

The politicians in Macquarie Street don't see this, because they are more concerned about their immediate reelection prospects.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Sims, Sydney is an out of control Ponzi scheme. We need the foreign investment, because it funds our labourers, but it might be too simple to pinpoint this as the only cause of high property values.

If Sydney residents find the price of homeownership too high, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives in regional areas (Broken Hill is a bargain, and has great weather). The spare change from the sale of a Sydney property could allow people to retire early in the regions, and work part time if they wanted. Orange happens to be a popular alternative at the moment. One day, Orange and Bathurst will be financially out of reach making places like Milthorpe a lower cost alternative.

The politicians in Macquarie Street don't see this, because they are more concerned about their immediate reelection prospects.
ANR
Financially makes sense.
Socially, not so much.
Want to move away from family? Your example Broken Hill?
Not seeing your kids/grandkids grow up?
As people get older, the demand for more frequent medical care and even full time/residential care sky rockets.
Residential care facilities are a lonely and mostly smeg houses places to be. Tyranny of distance will only compound this.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

That's fair enough Michaelgm. Broken Hill is not for everyone. It was only an example of clean air, sunshine, open space, and cheap housing.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Two more predictions.

losers. people lining said trough with dollars.

Winners. Comfortable and highly paid position(s) available on a company board that may, let's say construct stadiums, or involved in major events?
"michaelgm"


We can take comfort from the words of Aneurin Bevan years ago; "Politics is not the arena of morals; it is the arena of interests."
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Two more predictions.

losers. people lining said trough with dollars.

Winners. Comfortable and highly paid position(s) available on a company board that may, let's say construct stadiums, or involved in major events?


We can take comfort from the words of Aneurin Bevan years ago; "Politics is not the arena of morals; it is the arena of interests."
Valvegear
Self Intrest.
Always back that horse, it's the only one trying.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Sims, Sydney is an out of control Ponzi scheme. We need the foreign investment, because it funds our labourers, but it might be too simple to pinpoint this as the only cause of high property values.

If Sydney residents find the price of home ownership too high, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives in regional areas (Broken Hill is a bargain, and has great weather). The spare change from the sale of a Sydney property could allow people to retire early in the regions, and work part time if they wanted. Orange happens to be a popular alternative at the moment. One day, Orange and Bathurst will be financially out of reach making places like Milthorpe a lower cost alternative.

The politicians in Macquarie Street don't see this, because they are more concerned about their immediate reelection prospects.
ANR

Why would I want to move out to Milthorpe for? City folk don't want to move out that way. I might go for a quick visit to Bathurst in either February or October but why am I going there for permanently? Broken Hill is way too hot for most of the year and is hundreds of miles from the nearest beach. If regional areas are so attractive then why does Sydney have a huge homeless problem? Surely regional areas should be attractive to folks looking for somewhere to live.

The answer is because we are city folk and we need the city.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I think it's unlikely the Opposition will prevail tomorrow, consequently I believe 4 more years of Glady's will see her team well and truly on the nose and probably despatched next time...in 2023 which seems like an eternity away.

One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.

The economists and clutch penny's of the NSW Treasury have definitely impacted on that missed opportunity.

Mike.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.
The Vinelander
During VLocity procurement way back when, it is rumoured that Bombardier offered a tiliting version for a modest additional sum. So I guess the NSW transport bureaucracy is just as progressive as Victoria's...
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.
During VLocity procurement way back when, it is rumoured that Bombardier offered a tiliting version for a modest additional sum. So I guess the NSW transport bureaucracy is just as progressive as Victoria's...
LancedDendrite
Tilting trains would not be track ready as a lot of major adjustments would be required before they could run safely on our tracks.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.
During VLocity procurement way back when, it is rumoured that Bombardier offered a tiliting version for a modest additional sum. So I guess the NSW transport bureaucracy is just as progressive as Victoria's...
Tilting trains would not be track ready as a lot of major adjustments would be required before they could run safely on our tracks.
nswtrains
IIRC, at least one study found that NSW alignments curve too sharply for tilt body trains to be effective, and the Countrylink X2000 trial proved it
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.
During VLocity procurement way back when, it is rumoured that Bombardier offered a tiliting version for a modest additional sum. So I guess the NSW transport bureaucracy is just as progressive as Victoria's...
LancedDendrite

Tilting trains in Victoria are completely unnecessary with our long expanses of relatively straight track where curves are dealt with by the camber of the track and speeds between 100 and 160 km/h.

Clearly you have never travelled north of Wagga, anywhere between Blayney and Sydney, nor the full length of of the line between Sydney and Brisbane, where chronic numbers of curves slow trains to low average speeds.

Comments from our friends north of the Murray that NSW rail infrastructure is actually TOO winding for tilt trains is a very poor excuse for the penny pinching introduction of the proposed non-tilting rolling stock without addressing the infrastructure in relation to its connectivity to station platforms. Compared to the massive rail works currently being undertaken in Victoria, the works to accommodate tilt trains in NSW would not be onerous.

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As for you ANR did you want Milthorpe to have an expensive brand spanking new 8 car platform with double tracks just to pick up a handful of passengers a day. Now that would have been a waste of money.
I think Milthorpe should get its original platform back. If it needs to be expanded to accommodate 8 cars, so be it (unsure of its current length).

By making such towns feel and look important, it will get more visitors (from Sydney). By getting visitors it would not have otherwise had, it will help the local economy. Some visitors may come back again and again, choosing to settle (tree change/retirement etc). This will happen because Sydney residents will want something else, instead of a lifetime mortgage around their necks, job insecurity, standing in road traffic for hours, or on crowded trains daily. The private sector can pay for the stadiums - e.g. title sponsors, the NRL itself, who cares? The congestion and overpopulation in Sydney (housing affordability) is unsustainable and it has reached a critical mass where throwing more money at the problem will just make it worse. We live in a BIG BEAUTIFUL country and proceeds of the sale of public assets should be divvied more thoughtfully and with some greater vision.
ANR
Ok, lets look at this from a different angle.

- The current platform looks around 2.5 cars in length (Google Maps), you want to extend to 8 cars despite the Western XPT very very very rarely more than 4-5 pax cars.

- The town itself is roughly 500m across, but you want to build the platform length 200m long for a town 1250 people

- You want to do all this so the town gets taken seriously as potential location for a retirement village / Tree change despite limited local employment options.

The cost of relocating the track to the existing heritage listed platform would be in the order of a few $100k. The current temporary solution is part of the trial. I agree this is not an ideal longterm solution and moving the platform or track should be considered, but any works needs to be in proportion to number of users and this will certainly not include building the platform 8 cars long.

If you believe that the current solution is putting people off moving there, then you need to be real. Do you think people go to the area and say,
"honey, I love the town, the shops, the job/retirement, services, greenery, but I went to the local railway station and they use a timber bridge to access the train, not a normal platform, lets stay in Sydney instead?"
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Sims, Sydney is an out of control Ponzi scheme. We need the foreign investment, because it funds our labourers, but it might be too simple to pinpoint this as the only cause of high property values.

If Sydney residents find the price of homeownership too high, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives in regional areas (Broken Hill is a bargain, and has great weather). The spare change from the sale of a Sydney property could allow people to retire early in the regions, and work part time if they wanted. Orange happens to be a popular alternative at the moment. One day, Orange and Bathurst will be financially out of reach making places like Milthorpe a lower cost alternative.

The politicians in Macquarie Street don't see this, because they are more concerned about their immediate reelection prospects.
ANR
Ok, so you have an axe to grind against the NSW govt, its a democracy, your allowed. But not mix these feelings with practically/reality such as rebuilding Milthorpe, widening tunnels etc.  

NSW is a big state and part of the Commonwealth of Australia, if you don't want to live in Sydney, you don't have to. Just pack up and move either regionally or interstate. The problem people are drawn to live in the Greater Sydney basin for lots of reasons, work being a major one. As the biggest city in the country it has much of the large corporate HQ's and with that all the services etc along with supporting govt services and the hub of the state govt. It also has the bulk of the NSW higher education institutions, extensive job opportunities and a lifestyle and weather/climate alot of people actually like. Hell, most of the PM's of the past prefer Kirabili house on Sydney harbour to The Lodge in Canberra.

It is therefore safe to assume most of the people living in Sydney do so by choice. On retirement, how many actually back up and leave to cash their million dollar orange brick home in a boring street into a house near the water or hills out of the Sydney catchment, not that many. My parents and none of my relatives who grew up in Sydney apart from my brother and myself have actually left including those who have retired (Aunty moved to Mel for work). Recently I found my old former year 12 FB page, I would say 90% live within 50km of where they grew up.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

It is therefore safe to assume most of the people living in Sydney do so by choice. On retirement, how many actually back up and leave to cash their million dollar orange brick home in a boring street into a house near the water or hills out of the Sydney catchment, not that many.
RTT_Rules

All of my relatives have (but my mum moved back).  So have my in-laws.  All of my immediate family has.  I have.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
"BUT I LIKE TRAINS!!!!"

And that is all that is important.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The problem with the X2000 example of tilt was the x2000 was an extremely wide carriage. The tilt couldn't be used in the ten tunnels for instance without fouling. The same problem shouldn't happen for narrower rolling stock but I fear the reason why is because of extra work and reliability issues with tilting systems is a concern.

As for speed the xplorer is actually quicker through the twisty bits then the XPT is and the XPT has a wheel design that induces a tilt. The new diesel electric design of the new regional rolling stock will also make the trains even faster with 200+km/h capability and better acceleration and braking in the twisty bits. Sure tilt would be nice but if some line straightening happens then is it really necessary.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I think it's unlikely the Opposition will prevail tomorrow, consequently I believe 4 more years of Glady's will see her team well and truly on the nose and probably despatched next time...in 2023 which seems like an eternity away.

One point that really irks me in NSW is the completely lost opportunity of ordering your new country fleet as tilt trains which would aid in greatly accelerating regional train timetables and making regional trains more competitive and potentially even faster than car travel as is the case in Victoria.

The economists and clutch penny's of the NSW Treasury have definitely impacted on that missed opportunity.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Tilt trains were considered but the only thing that is going to make trains faster then cars in the mountainous bits of NSW is line straightening and I believe that is what is going to happen in the next term. plus the new trains will actually be much more nimble and faster then the current X's.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

There has also been talk that the line to bomaderry is going to get passing loops and possibly some more frequent services and eventually overhead. The Xplorers may also be refurbished to increase certain services post new regional fleet.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

……………………………………………………………………..

- The current platform looks around 2.5 cars in length (Google Maps), you want to extend to 8 cars despite the Western XPT very very very rarely more than 4-5 pax cars.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
RTT_Rules


Looking at the photo the train access part of the platform would be lucky to be 1-car length.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/Millthorpe-Station-Newsletter-January-2019.pdf

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