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Electrification To Wallan

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      ptvcommuter Train Controller

    Wallan is a huge growth area in the north of Melbourne and the area around it is one of the fastest growing in Australia. Electrification will cater for the growth near Mickleham, Cloverton and into Wallan. With commitments to Wyndham Vale, Melton and Baxter, the need for an extension to Wallan and also Clyde will be essential, the latter is needed now.

    Wallan would have to be 21km of electrified tracks and you may also need to build two new electrified tracks, to seperate Seymour/Shepparton VLine and then the SG Albury Line.

    Could have the Upfield Line extended via Somerton or extend the Cragieburn Line To Wallan
    Posted: 26 Dec 2018 18:07

    Last edited by ptvcommuter on 26 Dec 2018 18:07; edited 1 time in total

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      TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Power Trainger
    The frequency of the Seymour/Shepparton line is far lower than the other Commuter lines, at 80 minutes. It would not require its own track pair between Wallan and Craigieburn, it would be a waste. A large amount of the patronage comes from Wallan, so post electrification the frequency wont need to be increased for several years.
    Posted: 26 Dec 2018 21:11
      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    Any new construction in the Melbourne - Seymour section should be SG to enhance capacity on the NE interstate route and also as part of the Goulburn Valley and Deniliquin standardisation.
    Posted: 26 Dec 2018 21:57
      LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

    Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
    Could have the Upfield Line extended via Somerton or extend the Cragieburn Line To Wallan
    ptvcommuter
    If you do some reading (the PTV 2012 Network Development Plan - Metropolitan Rail) you'll find that the sequence that the bureaucracy advocates for is the following:
    1. Reconnect the Upfield line with the Craigieburn line at Somerton (the Upfield-Somerton Link), including full duplication of both the new link and the Upfield-Gowrie section of the present Upfield line
    2. Re-route V/Line Seymour + Shepparton services via the Upfield line (which is at present less congested than the Craigieburn line)
    3. Electrify the Upfield-Somerton Link and electrify Craigieburn-Wallan, including associated signalling works, Metro stabling & turnback facilities at Wallan, level crossing removals if applicable (I'd like to note that a significant increase in predicted rail traffic is a trigger for a level crossing to be reassessed under ALCAM). Upfield trains would extend to Wallan via Craigieburn.

    At some time during stages 2 or 3 additional stations at places like Beveridge would be constructed to cater to the metastasising 'master-planned estates' in the area.
    Posted: 26 Dec 2018 23:01
      574M White Guru

    Location: Shepparton
    I understand that PT Victoria owns the right of way to a marker on the down side past Donnybrook.
    This was some years ago.
    Has this ownership been extended to Wallan?
    Posted: 27 Dec 2018 16:21
      Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
    Electrification to Wallan is just a matter of time. Just like with Clyde, Wyndham Vale and Melton.

    Expect Wallan to follow in behind the others.
    Posted: 27 Dec 2018 17:36
      awsgc24 Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney
    Electrification to Wallan is just a matter of time. Just like with Clyde, Wyndham Vale and Melton.

    Expect Wallan to follow in behind the others.
    Gman_86

    For Melway map, see: http://www.street-directory.com.au/?x=145.00155270282033&y=-37.43516297597733&l=12

    Existing stations electrified:
    * Jacana
    * Broadmeadows
    * Roxburgh Park
    * Cragieburn - end 3 position signalling

    Stations on the extension would be:
    * Cragieburn - existing end of electrics and stabling ; start block telegraph (BT)
    * Donnybrook - upgrade
    * Beveridge - proposed station
    * Wallan - extent of new electrification (BT)

    Other stations:
    * Heathcote Junc
    * Wandong
    * Kilmore East (BT)
    * Broadford (BT permanently switched out at the moment)
    * Tallarook - former junction
    * Seymour - junction - end block telegraph (BT) & restart 3 position signalling

    For signal diagram see: http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/ARTC/AR207.pdf

    Which stations have block telegraph?
    Posted: 27 Dec 2018 19:06

    Last edited by awsgc24 on 12 Jan 2019 15:05; edited 5 times in total
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    Given proposed station spacing is not disimilar to that between Wallan and Seymour, it's best just operating:

    *Craigieburn to City as Metro service
    *Seymour to City via Airport (inc. Wallan, Donnybrook etc.)
    *Express to Seymour then to Shepparton/Albury

    Lower frequencies would be justifiable given the shorter express journey times to the city via the airport.

    This should not require any more than two SG tracks beyond Craigieburn (plus extra for freight).
    Posted: 11 Jan 2019 23:50

    Last edited by ZH836301 on 11 Jan 2019 23:51; edited 1 time in total
      Valvegear Dr Beeching

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    Imagine what a big deal electrification to Wallan will be. When the electrification to Craigieburn was finished, the "official opening" was worthy of a mob who had just invented the train, when all they'd really done was to develop a few km of existing track. Our electrified system still makes us look pretty silly compared to Sydney.
    Posted: 12 Jan 2019 10:10
      historian Deputy Commissioner

    Which stations have block telegraph?
    awsgc24

    Double line block in Victoria...

    Craigieburn, Wallan, Kilmore East, Broadford and Seymour. Broadford is permanently switched out at the moment.
    Posted: 12 Jan 2019 14:11
      historian Deputy Commissioner

    Which stations have block telegraph?

    Double line block in Victoria...

    Craigieburn, Wallan, Kilmore East, Broadford and Seymour. Broadford is permanently switched out at the moment.
    Posted: 12 Jan 2019 14:11
      574M White Guru

    Location: Shepparton
    I think the points are still on the ground in the grass at Donnybrook.
    Posted: 12 Jan 2019 18:38
      ptvcommuter Train Controller

    Tens of thousands of new homes in the north

    ‘Six of the 12 parcels of land to be released - in Beveridge North West, Wallan South, Wallan East, Merrifield North, Lindum Vale and Shenstone Park - are currently serviced by the Seymour Line’.  


    Time to start planning for Electrification to Wallan via Upfield
    Posted: 16 Feb 2019 16:40
      penguin2233 Locomotive Driver

    Location: Craigieburn, Melbourne VIC
    It would make sense to extend Upfield due to the smaller station at Upfeild not suitable for a terminus station and for the fact that the depot at Craigieburn would need to be connected back via the non electrified line.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2019 19:18
      Carnot Chief Commissioner

    In 2017 Vic parliament were told a Business Case would be done in 2018. Either that's been delayed or conveniently swept under the carpet...
    Posted: 16 Feb 2019 19:45
      penguin2233 Locomotive Driver

    Location: Craigieburn, Melbourne VIC
    I actually forgot what plan this was in but wasn't the plan to change it to Wallan-Baxter?
    Posted: 16 Feb 2019 19:52
      TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Power Trainger
    I believe it was Wallan - Sandringham and Craigieburn - Baxter, both of which were long term goals and would require reconfiguring of the City Loop portals to make happen.

    Infrastructure Vic I think recommended doing the City Loop reconfiguration immediately after Metro Tunnel as that would provide additional inner city capacity during construction, but things have grown so fast lately, that capacity could be realised faster than that.

    I think Metro II would happen first before changes to the City Loop.
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 11:30
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    It would make sense to extend Upfield due to the smaller station at Upfeild not suitable for a terminus station and for the fact that the depot at Craigieburn would need to be connected back via the non electrified line.
    penguin2233

    Would any suggest extending the electrification to Somerton from Upfield and thence on toward Seymour?  I believe this would be a better outcome and allow (as one does in Sydney) to select the route to Melbourne based on how you wish to travel based of course on your destination.

    In terms of Wallan I would vote for Kilmore East. Do it once and have it available for those on the edge of the network.  I would even consider Seymour as the electrified terminus some 72 kms from Craigieburn completing the job done for the next 30 years.  Approximate. cost $160m in overhead.
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 13:26
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    What would this mean for the old Double line block telegraph system? Presumably replaced by something more modern and less reliable.
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 15:47
      Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Terminating at Ringwood
    21 kilometres of overhead needed you say? Maybe after the rest of Melbourne's current suburban rail system enters the 20th century (yes, 20th) by fixing the last of the single-track bottlenecks and electrifying Melton/Tarneit/Wyndham Vale. If lucky, Wallan might just beat Bacchus Marsh to having a Comeng sit in the platform (if they still exist by then).

    For comparison, 21 kilometres is roughly between Flinders Street and any of these stations: Cheltenham, Westall, Glen Waverley, Mitcham, Greensborough, Epping, Roxburgh Park, Keilor Plains, Caroline Springs and Laverton, of which only Caroline Springs is lacking overhead. 21 kms is also longer than the Sandringham, Alamein, Upfield and Williamstown lines in their entirety.
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 16:34
      penguin2233 Locomotive Driver

    Location: Craigieburn, Melbourne VIC
    That would mean doubling the Craigieburn/Upfield (depending on preferred alignment) in length. Maybe it would be more viable if electric trains from Seymour don't continue running towards the City? Nah that would never happen

    On another note, V/Line is quite adequate for the time being and it's only being slowed down by metro services.
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 18:41
      True Believers Chief Commissioner

    21 kilometres of overhead needed you say? Maybe after the rest of Melbourne's current suburban rail system enters the 20th century (yes, 20th) by fixing the last of the single-track bottlenecks and electrifying Melton/Tarneit/Wyndham Vale. If lucky, Wallan might just beat Bacchus Marsh to having a Comeng sit in the platform (if they still exist by then).

    For comparison, 21 kilometres is roughly between Flinders Street and any of these stations: Cheltenham, Westall, Glen Waverley, Mitcham, Greensborough, Epping, Roxburgh Park, Keilor Plains, Caroline Springs and Laverton, of which only Caroline Springs is lacking overhead. 21 kms is also longer than the Sandringham, Alamein, Upfield and Williamstown lines in their entirety.
    Heihachi_73

    If you look back in the history, apparently we electrified most of the rail network within a period of 10 years.

    I made an animation for visual aid below (Skip to 6 minutes and 30 seconds). So btw 1919-1929 most of our network was electrified. That means many kilometres of rail lines all electrified within a short period of time.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTjr7Ndn6AI&t=385
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 19:30

    Last edited by True Believers on 17 Feb 2019 19:33; edited 3 times in total
      ptvcommuter Train Controller

    I believe it was Wallan - Sandringham and Craigieburn - Baxter, both of which were long term goals and would require reconfiguring of the City Loop portals to make happen. Infrastructure Vic I think recommended doing the City Loop reconfiguration immediately after Metro Tunnel as that would provide additional inner city capacity during construction, but things have grown so fast lately, that capacity could be realised faster than that. I think Metro II would happen first before changes to the City Loop.
    TOQ-1


    Was never going to happen Sandringham to Wallan
    Leaked plan shows Alamein or Glen Waverley running to Wallan
    Sandringham will go to Laverton and Williamstown


    @Heihachi_73 21km of overhead. Sunbury was 15 or so, why’s there an issue with that
    The west and northern suburbs are growing and they need infrastructure to cope with the demand. Wallan is part of the equation
    Posted: 17 Feb 2019 22:39
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    If Wallan is completed or or by some amazing foresight Seymour is done I would suggest this would be the time to run via the airport as no diesel would be required and diesel trains are far from suitable for the airport line. Kilmore east is worthy of discussion for the area is also growing and could provide services for heathcote users.

    Still all yak and no action in Vic.

    On the subject of SG to Seymour how would this work ?
    Posted: 18 Feb 2019 08:22
      Carnot Chief Commissioner

    If Wallan is completed or or by some amazing foresight Seymour is done I would suggest this would be the time to run via the airport as no diesel would be required and diesel trains are far from suitable for the airport line. Kilmore east is worthy of discussion for the area is also growing and could provide services for heathcote users.

    Still all yak and no action in Vic.

    On the subject of SG to Seymour how would this work ?
    freightgate
    Yep, I was thinking the same.  Run 25 kV AC electrics all the way from SCS to Wallan via Airport.  It raises the prospect of whether SRL also goes 25kV too?

    Seymour would only go SG if Shepp does too in my opinion.  Convert the East BG track to SG in the process, and Northern BG Albion track to SG too.

    And then there's that old chestnut of HSR and running that via the airport - Make Airport link SG if that goes ahead?
    Posted: 18 Feb 2019 08:33

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