2019 Federal Election Thread

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
...agriculture is all ready being affected in this country with the longer warm periods of the year. there is no doubt about this don
Dangersdan707
Australia is a continent with extremely unpredictable and unreliable weather patterns that has frustrated even the most ardent weather scientists. The fact that the climate is variable over a long period of time is a matter of fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'climate change'.

Read up on things like Goyder's Line and the extreme rain event that occurred in the mid-1970's. What we are seeing in 2019 is entirely natural and has nothing at all to do with carbon dioxide.

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  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

...agriculture is all ready being affected in this country with the longer warm periods of the year. there is no doubt about this don
Australia is a continent with extremely unpredictable and unreliable weather patterns that has frustrated even the most ardent weather scientists. The fact that the climate is variable over a long period of time is a matter of fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'climate change'.

Read up on things like Goyder's Line and the extreme rain event that occurred in the mid-1970's. What we are seeing in 2019 is entirely natural and has nothing at all to do with carbon dioxide.
don_dunstan
Thanks, Tony.
When does the lease expire on your electoral office? Will be requiring new premises on or about may 19. Zalie. Very Happy
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

I posted up a video link earlier in this thread and the expert view is that unless we get unanimous agreement between states, and fed govt in terms of concrete policy direction, and stick with it, one way or the other, pro fossil fuels or pro renewables, note the OR, we will have high power prices for decades to come. Time to consider rooftop solar?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
"Renewable energy" is not cheaper.

If you had to pay fully for your on roof solar panels, they would become profitable about the time it is to replace the panels.

Then the problem of what to do with the expired panels.
Donald
Solar panels are still being produced by the Chinese at below cost in order to send German manufacturers broke - therefore they're still being heavily subsidised at the production end. When the price war is over the cost of panels is estimated to double throwing all the present cost models out the window.

Secondly, direct subsidies to renewable energy sources here in Australia total $2.8 billion p/a according to a recent article in the Financial Review. This includes direct and indirect subsidies to wind and solar including the mandatory 7.5% payment from each an every power bill to support the carbon fairy eradication program.

There's no way that renewable energy would be cost-competitive without these extremely generous compulsory subsidies; to top it all off Bill Shorten's plan to transition to a completely renewable country by 2030 is estimated to cost $1,000,000,000,000 or a thousand billion dollars. There's no way this is in the least bit affordable for a country of 25 million people, we'll be sent broke by the expense of transitioning to 100% renewables.

The majority of solar panels being produced only have a useful life of 10-15 years at the most - so you have to keep renewing the renewables. What happens to all the toxic heavy metals in the solar panels after they're life-expired - landfill?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Thanks, Tony.
When does the lease expire on your electoral office? Will be requiring new premises on or about may 19. Zalie. Very Happy
michaelgm
Tony Abbott didn't give a damn about the car industry workers he was consigning to the scrap-heap and he generally doesn't care about the poor or the working class in this country. I'm no Tony Abbott: My concern is solely with the poor of this nation who are being expected to foot the bill for this stupid carbon folly because they're captive to the grid and can't afford the middle-class subsidies being offered through these stupid home solar systems.

That none of you here (with the exception of RTT_Rules and Donald) seem to give a flying fig about the working poor is a terrible indictment.

Shame on all of you.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
With Lake Eyre filling with all the rains from Queensland, next year should be a good year for Wimmera farmers.
It is called a cycle for a good reason - it is.   Nothing that is occurring now hasn't happened before and will happen again unless the alarmists reduce the volume of CO2, then plants will not survive.  (One good thing about this is the vegans will be the first to go.)
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

...agriculture is all ready being affected in this country with the longer warm periods of the year. there is no doubt about this don
Australia is a continent with extremely unpredictable and unreliable weather patterns that has frustrated even the most ardent weather scientists. The fact that the climate is variable over a long period of time is a matter of fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'climate change'.

Read up on things like Goyder's Line and the extreme rain event that occurred in the mid-1970's. What we are seeing in 2019 is entirely natural and has nothing at all to do with carbon dioxide.
don_dunstan
Dear oh dear.  I used to be a climate skeptic.  Not anymore.  
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-well-have-climate-models-projected-global-warming

Look, Australia is going through a hot and dry patch at present due to Ocean temp anomalies, but there is an overall trend to warmer temps in recent decades.  If anything the IPCC projections have been on the conservative side.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Clive Palmer has lodged an application with the court requesting the AEC not provide a startup view of the election results until all polls have closed across the country including those on Christmas Island.  If successful the ABC will not have much to talk about until around 9pm AEST.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I disagree, Most people I know are willing to pay higher Power prices for clean energy.
So, you don't pay your own power bills by your own admission but you think "most people" would prefer higher power bills if it meant the warm inner glow of saving the planet. Nah, sorry. I'm trying to manage a household, I don't give a damn about imaginary carbon fairy - that's entirely an invention of people like Al Gore, Tim Flannery and the Holmes a'Court family who are all making money off the coal scare campaign.
don_dunstan
Remember your BFF Tony? I said Most people I know are, you however are the exception to this. How many people you know think climate change is real or not don? (BTW Why do you use that name your not even left leaning). Maybe for your mob don but from Last nights HACK on 3xJ they discussed what my generation views as the biggest issue and that is climate change and the environment while the lowest was taxes.
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/whats-up-in-your-world/11021316
Don, you may be wise and old but your clearly outnubered and in the minority on this as human based produced Co2 has increased dramatically since the the 1920s (mass production of car, ect). How many humans in your household? Is this staged by the Rich Commie Jewish Chinese to create money? you think yes! The world will be better with less pollution and you know it don but refuse to admit it. Love how you don't cover that coal will eventually run out and we will be forced to renewables. Alas Reinforcing my point further that the polluting for $$$$$$$$$ is literally what you want. Cheep Power over a decent planet to live on

If privatisation was solely responsible for higher electricity prices then why do the states with the highest uptake of 'renewables' have the highest electricity prices - coincidence?
Don Dumbstan

Reading a bit too much of Murdoch? Yes, coincidence indeed, your home state is being used as a testing ground for the rest of the nation.


Sorry Dangersdan but you don't pay your own way - come back to me when you are an adult and your opinion will change. Manage a household, pay a mortgage or rent and pay utilities and then tell me how happy you are to pay the highest electricity charges in the world to banish the evil carbon fairy.
DonDumbstan

Privatisation of the energy industry has lead to this, not use of renewables. this is typical undermining me because I'm young and 'an entitled spoilt millennial eating avocado toast'. I have not lived long yes, but I want a decent place to live when I'm your age not some overpopulated and polluted hellhole. Most people as I said that I have come into contact too agree. Age and generation has nothing to do with this Don, We can have a civilised debate about the planets future and energy or I can call you a blind old fool and you in return an immature uneducated indoctrinated posh ect.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Feisty  young fella, fair enough.your the ones that are going to have to pick up the tab because of current generations recalcitrance
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Clive Palmer has lodged an application with the court requesting the AEC not provide a startup view of the election results until all polls have closed across the country including those on Christmas Island.  If successful the ABC will not have much to talk about until around 9pm AEST.
x31
I don't have enough swear-words for the abomination that is Clive Palmer, now he's trying to imply that nobody will vote for him in SA/WA if they see that no-one is voting for him on the east coast.

I hope he loses harder than ever.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I totally agree with the no publishing of counting or even exit polls until the last polling booth has closed.

I'm currently in India and they are currently going through their elections which takes weeks due to the logistics involved for the workds biggest and ine of the poorest democracies.  NOTHING is allowed to be published from the booths that have completed voting until the magic date when everything is completed.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I totally agree with the no publishing of counting or even exit polls until the last polling booth has closed.

I'm currently in India and they are currently going through their elections which takes weeks due to the logistics involved for the workds biggest and ine of the poorest democracies.  NOTHING is allowed to be published from the booths that have completed voting until the magic date when everything is completed.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I totally agree with the no publishing of counting or even exit polls until the last polling booth has closed.
"RTT_Rules"
Why?

What other forms of censorship do you like?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Dear oh dear.  I used to be a climate skeptic.  Not anymore.  
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-well-have-climate-models-projected-global-warming

Look, Australia is going through a hot and dry patch at present due to Ocean temp anomalies, but there is an overall trend to warmer temps in recent decades.  If anything the IPCC projections have been on the conservative side.
Carnot
The models changing all the time is no good - the further out they try to predict these things the more unreliable the 'science' becomes. I have a Melbourne friend who is convinced that increasing CO2 is a precursor to ice ages in the past. It's also true that sea levels have changed dramatically and the end of the last small ice age was only 10,000 years ago, relatively recent in earth's history.

It's interesting to speculate if the opposite happened to all the 'esteemed proven science'; we always laugh about how people aren't used to driving in snow and ice in Australia - full stop - and what that would mean for weather patterns here depending on how severe it is.

Also remember that even in recent history climate has been severely impacted by massive volcanic eruption like Krakatoa 1883 and Tambora 1815 caused severe winters and very mild summers for some years afterwards, there's all sorts of natural ways in which the climate changes suddenly - it's why I don't worry too much about increasing CO2 because its entirely natural and the earth will deal with it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Remember your BFF Tony? I said Most people I know are, you however are the exception to this. How many people you know think climate change is real or not don? (BTW Why do you use that name your not even left leaning). Maybe for your mob don but from Last nights HACK on 3xJ they discussed what my generation views as the biggest issue and that is climate change and the environment while the lowest was taxes.
Dangersdan707
You (and everyone else here) should know by now that I am not a Tony Abbott fan, especially for his closure of the car industry which I think was abominable and incredibly short-sighted. Climate change is an incredibly complicated issue and if you're genuinely interested keep reading about the history of the earth further.

Start your research by telling me what your household kw/h and daily charge is, don't stay ignorant of how much electricity costs and what your footprint is - really.

I'm not that old but I've lived long enough to be cynical beyond my years... I've been independent from home since I was 20. Paying bills, rent/mortgages, etc will make you grey too, believe me. Power in particular is an insult, every one of those bastards that sold the power networks in the nineties promised us it would lead to lower prices, now South Australia has the most expensive domestic electricity in the world. Its privatisation plus renewable energy fad plus foreign ownership plus clever tax structures plus plus plus... the poor old consumer (and industry) have been bled dry.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, you may be wise and old but your clearly outnubered and in the minority on this as human based produced Co2 has increased dramatically since the the 1920s (mass production of car, ect). How many humans in your household? Is this staged by the Rich Commie Jewish Chinese to create money? you think yes! The world will be better with less pollution and you know it don but refuse to admit it. Love how you don't cover that coal will eventually run out and we will be forced to renewables. Alas Reinforcing my point further that the polluting for $$$$$$$$$ is literally what you want. Cheep Power over a decent planet to live on
Dangersdan707

No, I don't believe any of those things - I believe it's people like the Holmes a'Courts, the Al Gores and the Tim Flannery AND the Malcolm Turnbulls of this planet who have made lots of money selling their catastrophic vision to government and private industry.

Follow the money.

What makes you think the planet won't be decent to live on - CO2 is a completely natural gas and the planet has 'suffered' through much higher concentrations than this in the past.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
On Facebook my current game is to unfollow any political post if I can. Some are direct shares from friends, so they unforuately stay.  Just contributing 0% to this discussion ! Wink

Regards,
David Head
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Why can’t a private company finance and build a coal-fired power station? As the industry is now privatised, how does a government choose a company to subsidise over its competitors? What happens with the surplus power? As it’s now a national market, why isn’t this a Federal problem rather a State one?

(Rhetorical questions. Refer Jeff Kennett et al.)
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Why can’t a private company finance and build a coal-fired power station?
kitchgp
Because it is faaaaaar more expensive than investing in renewables & storage!

There is plenty of articles online backing this up; stop being so lazy.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
You (and everyone else here) should know by now that I am not a Tony Abbott fan, especially for his closure of the car industry which I think was abominable and incredibly short-sighted. Climate change is an incredibly complicated issue and if you're genuinely interested keep reading about the history of the earth further.
Don dunstan
I know, was just pulling you leg Razz. I don't Doubt that but what you are doing is saying 'its nothing' and ignoring the massive increases that human industrialisation has added to the atmosphere.

Start your research by telling me what your household kw/h and daily charge is, don't stay ignorant of how much electricity costs and what your footprint is - really.
Don dunstan

Couldn't tell you that mate, due to not knowing I'm a fair amount based off 2 adults and 3 children plus animals
I'm not that old but I've lived long enough to be cynical beyond my years... I've been independent from home since I was 20. Paying bills, rent/mortgages, etc will make you grey too, believe me. Power in particular is an insult, every one of those bastards that sold the power networks in the nineties promised us it would lead to lower prices, now South Australia has the most expensive domestic electricity in the world. Its privatisation plus renewable energy fad plus foreign ownership plus clever tax structures plus plus plus... the poor old consumer (and industry) have been bled dry.
don dunstan
Lucky, my generation shan't be that lucky, I do not doubt paying bills makes you grey and angry alas conformity and economic control. Privatisation should never have occurred, just the majors jumping on the neoliberal economic bandwagon of 'the market solves everything'. its a mix of factors, quiet unfortunate that green power gets thrown in, probably could have been better managed by a government.
No, I don't believe any of those things - I believe it's people like the Holmes a'Courts, the Al Gores and the Tim Flannery AND the Malcolm Turnbulls of this planet who have made lots of money selling their catastrophic vision to government and private industry.
Don dunstan
Pulling ya leg and exaggerating your comments. The Parasite of capitalism leaches onto anything that could generate profit, Look at the Fallout  shelter industry that existed back in the 50's, I have no doubt that there are people profiting with 'saving' and polluting the planet. People have also make F#%Ktones of money digging and burning black rocks.  
Follow the money.
Don dunstan
The Money flows both ways, C A P I T A L I S M
What makes you think the planet won't be decent to live on - CO2 is a completely natural gas and the planet has 'suffered' through much higher concentrations than this in the past.
Don dunstan
A+ for Don! CO2 is a natural gas! would you rather live in Beijing? That is why! the planet could end up like that, horrible undecent to live on and it could spiral downwards from there. The Planet has suffered much through its billion year existence (however long) but this is the first time a lifeform has caused it not a natural cycle.
1
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Couldn't tell you that mate, due to not knowing I'm a fair amount based off 2 adults and 3 children plus animals
Dangersdan707
Terrible answer, now-days they make ignorant people pay, you should know these things if you're running a household. Cents per kw/h and daily charge please - if you care about the planet you should know this.
I know, was just pulling you leg Razz. I don't Doubt that but what you are doing is saying 'its nothing' and ignoring the massive increases that human industrialisation has added to the atmosphere.
Dangersdan707
Human pollution since the industrial revolution has been affecting the environment - even natural evolution has been affected by human activities as early as the 1700's, possibly even earlier given the neolithic (agrarian) ages began around 10,000 BC.
Lucky, my generation shan't be that lucky, I do not doubt paying bills makes you grey and angry alas conformity and economic control. Privatisation should never have occurred, just the majors jumping on the neoliberal economic bandwagon of 'the market solves everything'. its a mix of factors, quiet unfortunate that green power gets thrown in, probably could have been better managed by a government.
Dangersdan707
I don't disagree with any of that - it's all the fault of people like Keating and Hawke who first introduced the neo-Thatcherism that has destroyed Australia's social and political fabric since the early 1980's. Nobody voted for it but we got it anyway.
Pulling ya leg and exaggerating your comments. The Parasite of capitalism leaches onto anything that could generate profit, Look at the Fallout shelter industry that existed back in the 50's, I have no doubt that there are people profiting with 'saving' and polluting the planet. People have also make F#%Ktones of money digging and burning black rocks.
Dangersdan707
They do but all I'm trying to say is that it's not as simple as its being depicted in the media or popular press, you need to research yourself and see who is driving agendas and why. Take Get Up! for example, it's very well-funded for something that sprang out of nowhere. Actually it's just a George Soros front. Now that's not a conspiracy - if you follow the news you'd realise it's pretty much true.

Read more about everything and decide the truth for yourself is all I can suggest. In the meantime I'm voting for a new coal-fired power plant for South Australia, I think we really badly need it here more so than that stupid dolt Steve Marshall's NSW high-voltage interconnector.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I totally agree with the no publishing of counting or even exit polls until the last polling booth has closed.
Why?

What other forms of censorship do you like?
Valvegear
In what universe does it make sense that 10% of the population could be headed to the polls while the early results and occasionally the likely outcome be actually known?

Its simple, when Perth polls close, then the TV stations can start their broadcast and publish the exit and real count.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Why can’t a private company finance and build a coal-fired power station? As the industry is now privatised, how does a government choose a company to subsidise over its competitors? What happens with the surplus power? As it’s now a national market, why isn’t this a Federal problem rather a State one?

(Rhetorical questions. Refer Jeff Kennett et al.)
kitchgp
Millmerran Coal power station in Qld was built and commissioned by 2002, 100% private funding, 850MW of capacity for $1.5B (2002).

It is and was always owned I believe by the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund and AIG Histar Capital.

It became operational when Qld power prices were hovering in the mid $40/MWh and lowered power prices to mid $30/MWh.

Adjusted for inflation
The capital cost is $2.3B
Power price is $52/MWh

The coal mine that feeds the power station is dedicated for the power station and not exposed to the international market prices.

The Qld govt later built Kogan Creek coal power station near by and I believe Australia's youngest and last coal power station and because Kogan uses a larger single turbine rather than twin turbines like Millmerran it came in cheaper at $1.2B 5 years later for only slightly less output. Being 40% efficient it uses 40% less coal than some of its older cousins in NSW and Qld. It also has its own dedicated coal mine.

Now compare the power prices vs the current power prices in NSW and SA and basically yes building a coal power station now on similar basis would mean the power station would be making roughly 75% profit on its power wholesale prices. So anyone telling you coal power stations are not viable is talking through their ar$e.

The only reason no one will build one is for fear of what the govt will do to the coal power station producers in the future. What sort of punitive taxes will they face. Gillard opened that door, so now no one trusts the ALP to invest in such technology.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Why can’t a private company finance and build a coal-fired power station?
Because it is faaaaaar more expensive than investing in renewables & storage!

There is plenty of articles online backing this up; stop being so lazy.
DirtyBallast
Actually complete BS and the data used to argue against leaves critical factors out, such as is its despactable and uses assumptions that there are alt's available when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.

On a per MW output basis, PV solar is the cheapest, but its on;y sunny 8-12h a day.
Wind does come in close 2nd, but again, what to do when there is no wind.

For non-dispatchable supplies like Wind and Solar you need a despatcable additional generational capacity and once you start building twice the generation output and paying for spot prices in gas and coal, the prices well exceed that of coal or CCGT and even nuclear. Which is why no one is running an entire grid or large industry on solely solar and/or wind.

If you have large amounts of hydro, then yes wind and solar can make sense to phase out coal, but alas Australia does not and never will economically.

So, Kitchup is not being lazy, just not falling for the BS.

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