XPT replacement thread 2019

 
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
RTT_Rules
I agree.  Interstate rivalry has prevented cross border interchange for manufacturing and intellectual property rights, particularly between NSW and Victoria.  Heaven forbid - a NSW train manufactured in Victoria and vice-versa!  There's no greater example of this than the failure of the NSW government to seek advice from their Victorian cousins (AFAIK) in the design, construction and operation of the Light Rail network, which is so far proving to be a disaster.  Melbourne after all has one of the world's largest tram networks and you would think that they would have just a little bit of expertise in this area.  Similarly, Melbourne didn't take too well to its experiment with DD trains, manufactured in Sydney.

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  a6et Minister for Railways

If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
RTT_Rules
What gets up my nose in this area is I know there are more than enough manufacturers in NSW that are capable of the manufacture of trains of all kinds even allowing for some companies who have shut up shop owing to o/seas competition and seeming preferences given there by the current state government.

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

How absurd? With all due respect to the Spaniards or Koreans, how can state governments preference other nations over taxpayers outside their state? Are we a Commonwealth? Where is our nation building potential?
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
What gets up my nose in this area is I know there are more than enough manufacturers in NSW that are capable of the manufacture of trains of all kinds even allowing for some companies who have shut up shop owing to o/seas competition and seeming preferences given there by the current state government.

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
a6et
Any reference for the above reasoning?

Anyway, tram rails are a specific profile not offered by the Whyalla works (did they bid?) and yes the Whyalla works have won other rail contracts since that time.

Cheers
  a6et Minister for Railways

If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
What gets up my nose in this area is I know there are more than enough manufacturers in NSW that are capable of the manufacture of trains of all kinds even allowing for some companies who have shut up shop owing to o/seas competition and seeming preferences given there by the current state government.

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
Any reference for the above reasoning?

Anyway, tram rails are a specific profile not offered by the Whyalla works (did they bid?) and yes the Whyalla works have won other rail contracts since that time.

Cheers
arctic
References for the rails was in NSW newspapers and included the element that the feds stepped in with the contract for ILR rails to be made in Oz, at the time the Whyalla works were under threat of closure.

The aspect that NSW did not look to getting the rails done at Whyalla for no other reason than they wanted to help the Spanish steel company, rather than an Oz one. There was no talk with Whyalla to see if they could profile the rail for the trams, it was simply announced by the NSW government through the premier.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I agree.  Interstate rivalry has prevented cross border interchange for manufacturing and intellectual property rights, particularly between NSW and Victoria.  Heaven forbid - a NSW train manufactured in Victoria and vice-versa!  There's no greater example of this than the failure of the NSW government to seek advice from their Victorian cousins (AFAIK) in the design, construction and operation of the Light Rail network, which is so far proving to be a disaster.  Melbourne after all has one of the world's largest tram networks and you would think that they would have just a little bit of expertise in this area.  Similarly, Melbourne didn't take too well to its experiment with DD trains, manufactured in Sydney.
Transtopic

The issues with the Sydney light rail has nothing to do with the track or trams used and where they are manufactured it is more to do with the route taken through george street, restrictive speed limits and ausgrid unable to supply consistent power to the network for some reason. Why shouldn't we ask the europeans to help build this new network when they have built plenty of them in Europe and there is nothing that Melbourne could have bought to Sydney since their system is completely different to what we built.

We have bought rolling stock off Melbourne before in the Xplorer and there are plenty of people who complain about them on Railpage and yet a Melbourne company had a chance to tender but pulled out once they realised their design was 30 years old and not what the NSW government was looking for in a more efficient and modern train then just a SG Vlocity. There in lies the issue with just giving it to a Victorian, QLD or WA company. There is no innovation.

Melbourne's failure with the 4D wasn't to do with where they were manufactured as much as DD's just weren't going to work with the Melbourne system. The 4D may have looked like a Tangara but from my understanding it certainly didn't share much else with it and the 4D was manufactured in Newcastle and not Sydney.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
a6et

I'm sorry but where is your proof for this as being fact. The track for the Sydney light rail was not made in Spain but Austria. The steel plant in SA never made grooved light rail and if you don't make the product then how can the NSW Government order it from them.

The IWLR is mostly heavy rail profile and is why it would have been made in Australia.
  a6et Minister for Railways

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?

I'm sorry but where is your proof for this as being fact. The track for the Sydney light rail was not made in Spain but Austria. The steel plant in SA never made grooved light rail and if you don't make the product then how can the NSW Government order it from them.

The IWLR is mostly heavy rail profile and is why it would have been made in Australia.
simstrain
It was in the media both TV and newspapers, at the time when the Whyalla plant was all but ready to close up shop owing to lack of orders, certainly the submarine contracts and their share on top of the ILR rails has been what saved them.

I had not heard that the rails were made in Austria, only place mentioned was Spain.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?

I'm sorry but where is your proof for this as being fact. The track for the Sydney light rail was not made in Spain but Austria. The steel plant in SA never made grooved light rail and if you don't make the product then how can the NSW Government order it from them.

The IWLR is mostly heavy rail profile and is why it would have been made in Australia.
It was in the media both TV and newspapers, at the time when the Whyalla plant was all but ready to close up shop owing to lack of orders, certainly the submarine contracts and their share on top of the ILR rails has been what saved them.

I had not heard that the rails were made in Austria, only place mentioned was Spain.
a6et
I do not recall this being said ever. Why would any standing premier or transport minister ever say this publicly even if it was what they believe. I've searched and can't find anything at all to back up your assertions in the local media. Maybe you can point me to something that I may have missed but otherwise you are just sprouting fake news or your own beliefs. The reason why it was sourced from Austria is because they were making the rail profile needed and Arrium wasn't making any light rail profile at all.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Spain made the urbos 3 for the inner west light rail and one of the companies involved in the cselr construction was spanish but not the rail for the Cselr.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

It's only a tram to get people to places.  It's not the savior of the local economy.
  a6et Minister for Railways

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?

I'm sorry but where is your proof for this as being fact. The track for the Sydney light rail was not made in Spain but Austria. The steel plant in SA never made grooved light rail and if you don't make the product then how can the NSW Government order it from them.

The IWLR is mostly heavy rail profile and is why it would have been made in Australia.
It was in the media both TV and newspapers, at the time when the Whyalla plant was all but ready to close up shop owing to lack of orders, certainly the submarine contracts and their share on top of the ILR rails has been what saved them.

I had not heard that the rails were made in Austria, only place mentioned was Spain.
I do not recall this being said ever. Why would any standing premier or transport minister ever say this publicly even if it was what they believe. I've searched and can't find anything at all to back up your assertions in the local media. Maybe you can point me to something that I may have missed but otherwise you are just sprouting fake news or your own beliefs. The reason why it was sourced from Austria is because they were making the rail profile needed and Arrium wasn't making any light rail profile at all.
simstrain
I don't put out fake news, I leave that to the politicians and other experts.  When was the contract awarded for LR, also at what time was the rails for the metro ordered and who made that rail?

Just because you cannot find any reference to the news regarding the Spanish deal, does not mean that I am wrong either.  The announcement was made on TV by the premier, I don't read many newspapers either so don't know if it was in that arena, besides that to read the newspapers one has to subscribe to them, and that's been the case now for some years.

ps, could the Spanish works have sub contracted to the Austrian steel works?
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
What gets up my nose in this area is I know there are more than enough manufacturers in NSW that are capable of the manufacture of trains of all kinds even allowing for some companies who have shut up shop owing to o/seas competition and seeming preferences given there by the current state government.

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
Any reference for the above reasoning?

Anyway, tram rails are a specific profile not offered by the Whyalla works (did they bid?) and yes the Whyalla works have won other rail contracts since that time.

Cheers
References for the rails was in NSW newspapers and included the element that the feds stepped in with the contract for ILR rails to be made in Oz, at the time the Whyalla works were under threat of closure.

The aspect that NSW did not look to getting the rails done at Whyalla for no other reason than they wanted to help the Spanish steel company, rather than an Oz one. There was no talk with Whyalla to see if they could profile the rail for the trams, it was simply announced by the NSW government through the premier.
a6et
Maybe it was the metro you are thinking of? - those rails were made in Spain: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-01/nsw-decision-to-use-spanish-steel-in-rail-project-angers-sa/7291440  In this case it may have been possible for the Whyalla works to have bid. There was a competitive tendering process for that one.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
I agree.  Interstate rivalry has prevented cross border interchange for manufacturing and intellectual property rights, particularly between NSW and Victoria.  Heaven forbid - a NSW train manufactured in Victoria and vice-versa!  There's no greater example of this than the failure of the NSW government to seek advice from their Victorian cousins (AFAIK) in the design, construction and operation of the Light Rail network, which is so far proving to be a disaster.  Melbourne after all has one of the world's largest tram networks and you would think that they would have just a little bit of expertise in this area.  Similarly, Melbourne didn't take too well to its experiment with DD trains, manufactured in Sydney.
Transtopic
A say this as a proud Victorian but in a lot of ways I agree with Sims. As regards to the Light Rail what can Sydney possible learn from Melbourne? How to run an old legacy network, because that is what Melbourne's network is. The majority of their fleet are old high floor trams dating from the 1970's and 80's. And instead of helping the Dandenong plant to tool up to produce more E Class Trams, the Government has decided to spend $250 Million on conducting C6 overhauls on old high floor trams.

When it comes to Rolling Stock procurement. NSW is far far better than Victoria. Take for Instance the Introduction of the Waratah's compared to the Xtrapolis. NSW has introduced 102 8 car double deck trains in 10 years. Here in Victoria 101 6 Car Trains in 18 years. The Waratah is a very complex and sophisticated train, whereas the Xtrapolis is a cheap bog standard train from a long obsolete platform. And Vic still has not got one HCMT set in revenue passenger service.

NSW is currently commissioning their InterCity D Set Fleet, 111 of them which they hope to introduce completely by 2022. It has taken 16 years to introduce 76 3 Car Velocitys. In addition NSW are introducing 29 Bi Mode trains for their Longer Distance Routes due to enter service in 2023. By 2023 when NSW has got all its sophisticated D sets in Service, we in Victoria will still have old H Type and N Type carriages still on our rails pulled by 1980's vintage locos, and that is a flaming disgrace.

I would not be surprised if Victoria purchased all the withdrawn regional stock from NSW!

Michael
  a6et Minister for Railways

If one state has seen the closure of its manufacturing sector, then another can be used to assemble or construct.

Further to what I have said previously, when putting out tenders, Australian sheet metal should be used.

Time to stop with the excuses and put Australia to work.
Agree, trains bought in sufficient volume should be forced to be assembled in Aust with a min amount of local content. This still provides plenty of scope for competition.

I know Sim's seems to think the whole thing will arrive in a box but typically the basic frame and body is at least manufactured in the country with traction, control and other similar systems imported and installed. Sydney trains is now large enough to have almost permanent ongoing supply of trains to replace expansion and retirement. Brisbane and Perth between the two of them kept EDI Marybough busy for the best part of 3 decades.

The problem is the state premiers are often too pig headed and self focused to worry about Made in Australia if its not in their state.
What gets up my nose in this area is I know there are more than enough manufacturers in NSW that are capable of the manufacture of trains of all kinds even allowing for some companies who have shut up shop owing to o/seas competition and seeming preferences given there by the current state government.

My mind also goes back to when the rails were ordered for the LR and tram tracks where the contracts were given to Spain for their supply, reasoning was that Spain had big unemployment and the premier along with transport minister saw a need to help them out.  At that time the Steel works in SA were in dire trouble and canvassed the different governments for them to be more involved in steel deliveries for rail, the feds came good by awarding them the contract to supply rail for the ILR, it at least provided a degree of certainty for them, but, has there been any other new contracts awarded for supplying steel products for the Australian market?
Any reference for the above reasoning?

Anyway, tram rails are a specific profile not offered by the Whyalla works (did they bid?) and yes the Whyalla works have won other rail contracts since that time.

Cheers
References for the rails was in NSW newspapers and included the element that the feds stepped in with the contract for ILR rails to be made in Oz, at the time the Whyalla works were under threat of closure.

The aspect that NSW did not look to getting the rails done at Whyalla for no other reason than they wanted to help the Spanish steel company, rather than an Oz one. There was no talk with Whyalla to see if they could profile the rail for the trams, it was simply announced by the NSW government through the premier.
Maybe it was the metro you are thinking of? - those rails were made in Spain: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-01/nsw-decision-to-use-spanish-steel-in-rail-project-angers-sa/7291440  In this case it may have been possible for the Whyalla works to have bid. There was a competitive tendering process for that one.
arctic
Arctic, while this helps fill in the aspect of the rail that was used for the metro from memory I am sure that both the metro and LR tracks were each announced at around the same time.  Our premier was very much boasting about the aspect of helping Spain with their unemployment woes at the time and saw it as a benefit for NSW, moreso Sydney.  I would not be surprised if the contract for the metro could well have been sub let for it to be produced in Austria.  I honestly never saw anything public about the awarding to Austria of the Metro track.

To me there is no reason why the rails could not have been produced in Whyalla
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

We have to start doing things ourselves, keep some level of heavy industry running, provide incentives etc.

We have to keep something up our sleeve in the national interest, rather than the interests of other nations.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Maybe it was the metro you are thinking of? - those rails were made in Spain: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-01/nsw-decision-to-use-spanish-steel-in-rail-project-angers-sa/7291440  In this case it may have been possible for the Whyalla works to have bid. There was a competitive tendering process for that one.
Arctic, while this helps fill in the aspect of the rail that was used for the metro from memory I am sure that both the metro and LR tracks were each announced at around the same time.  Our premier was very much boasting about the aspect of helping Spain with their unemployment woes at the time and saw it as a benefit for NSW, moreso Sydney.  I would not be surprised if the contract for the metro could well have been sub let for it to be produced in Austria.  I honestly never saw anything public about the awarding to Austria of the Metro track.

To me there is no reason why the rails could not have been produced in Whyalla
a6et
For the Metro - yes they probably could have been, for the trams, requiring grooved rails, not without an expensive re-tool which would likely make them totally uncompetitive. Its interesting to note Melbourne trams also get their tram rails from Austria (the VoestAlpine works) https://www.voestalpine.com/blog/en/mobility/21-years-in-down-under/. A nice steelworks I went to a couple of times for some process tuning.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Do I wish that more manufacturing could be done locally yes but if there is a competitive tender which bombardier competed in and they put up the same train as we bought in the 90's while UGL/CAF put up much more modern and efficient train then what do you really expect. The new bi mode train will reduce carbon emissions and fuel costs significantly compared to the SG vlocity that bombardier was proposing until they pulled out of the race.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Sims, the UK experience yas been that these CAF trains have not been delivered on time, and they have had a lot of teething issues as one would expect them being more complex.

I fail to see the benefit. Most of the NSW line has no overhead wires, unlike the electrification going on in Northern England.

Once the CAF trains move beyond the Sydney overhead wiring, the train is possibly overengineered and overpriced for Australian conditions.
  Upven Locomotive Driver

Sims, the UK experience yas been that these CAF trains have not been delivered on time, and they have had a lot of teething issues as one would expect them being more complex.

I fail to see the benefit. Most of the NSW line has no overhead wires, unlike the electrification going on in Northern England.

Once the CAF trains move beyond the Sydney overhead wiring, the train is possibly overengineered and overpriced for Australian conditions.
ANR
Is "Australian conditions" a euphemism for lower expectations? We could try Stadler, CAF, Alstom, Bombardier, etc. Stadler Flirt's seem popular. Heck why not a double-decker for the XPT replacement, it's not like it's a commuter train stopping every 3 kilometers so the "dwell time" argument can be thrown out.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Sims, the UK experience yas been that these CAF trains have not been delivered on time, and they have had a lot of teething issues as one would expect them being more complex.

I fail to see the benefit. Most of the NSW line has no overhead wires, unlike the electrification going on in Northern England.

Once the CAF trains move beyond the Sydney overhead wiring, the train is possibly overengineered and overpriced for Australian conditions.
ANR

What has the UK experience got to do with us? The UK have there own specifications and every train has teething issues. The Xplorer still has them after 25 years of operation. The trains are working fine in Sardinia and other parts of Europe but you just want to pick out the one that is having the most issues.

The overhead helps because it reduces the amount of fuel used and the train is actually much simpler with electric traction motors then with the extremely unreliable transmissions used in the xplorer and vlocity. It is much better for when the train is sitting at Central station and not spewing out harmful diesel emissions. As for Australian conditions you need something over engineered and as for price it costs the same as what a new xplorer from bombardier would have cost if not cheaper.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Sims, the UK experience yas been that these CAF trains have not been delivered on time, and they have had a lot of teething issues as one would expect them being more complex.

I fail to see the benefit. Most of the NSW line has no overhead wires, unlike the electrification going on in Northern England.

Once the CAF trains move beyond the Sydney overhead wiring, the train is possibly overengineered and overpriced for Australian conditions.
Is "Australian conditions" a euphemism for lower expectations? We could try Stadler, CAF, Alstom, Bombardier, etc. Stadler Flirt's seem popular. Heck why not a double-decker for the XPT replacement, it's not like it's a commuter train stopping every 3 kilometers so the "dwell time" argument can be thrown out.
Upven
The aspect of Australian conditions is more relevant than thought, primarily owing to the different temperature extremes along with the terrain here I Australia, and that applies very much to NSW.

Consider the summer temperatures in Australia all over, and especially NSW in this case, compare them to Europe and those countries that have temps anywhere near we do, likewise the terrain/grade and the like.  The classic examples of summer temps, extremes and the like especially in summer can be found especially in England where there are warnings issued for older people to be careful in going out when the temps reach 28degree, a further warning is issued with the recommendation that elderly and those not well should stay indoors when it reaches 30degrees.  I would love a summer where we did not get over 30 or better still 28.

We had issues on the XPT and their predecessors in the Deb sets especially on the Main North, from Wingen - Ardglen, and then from Limbri - Woolbrook in the summer owing to the need of being in high throttle range in the hot summer weather where it was a juggling issue in maintaining the T/Table with consideration of the motors and their heating.  On flatter terrain and even at higher speeds, not that we got to the max very often, you were not in full throttle for long periods.

The old Deb Sets and even the CPH that worked the Wollongong - Moss Vale link had to have extended radiators also to stop at Summit Tank to top the water up. Both are now gone but the Deb sets in particular were juggling acts and problematic in maintaining their timetables,  The Debs had problems on the same grades as the XPT but in addition they had them on the 1:40's north of Armidale.  There also was always extra oils placed at Glenn Innes and Tenterfield for the motors and transmission's just in case.

Its likely that motors these days are better but the aspect of climate considerations for this country is certainly something to be included in the specs.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Sims, the UK experience yas been that these CAF trains have not been delivered on time, and they have had a lot of teething issues as one would expect them being more complex.

I fail to see the benefit. Most of the NSW line has no overhead wires, unlike the electrification going on in Northern England.

Once the CAF trains move beyond the Sydney overhead wiring, the train is possibly overengineered and overpriced for Australian conditions.

What has the UK experience got to do with us? The UK have there own specifications and every train has teething issues. The Xplorer still has them after 25 years of operation. The trains are working fine in Sardinia and other parts of Europe but you just want to pick out the one that is having the most issues.

The overhead helps because it reduces the amount of fuel used and the train is actually much simpler with electric traction motors then with the extremely unreliable transmissions used in the xplorer and vlocity. It is much better for when the train is sitting at Central station and not spewing out harmful diesel emissions. As for Australian conditions you need something over engineered and as for price it costs the same as what a new xplorer from bombardier would have cost if not cheaper.
simstrain
I actually like the idea of the dual power of the new trains, which they will be of great benefit and possibly provide the best returns over the Blue mountains especially on the down services, if the main west was fixed as far as the alignments were concerned and the wires went up to Bx would make for a much better economy as well.  Not as much will be had on the South though, with only the Short North being the other beneficiary of the dual power.

On the North, on a return trip, they get 320 odd Kilometres of wired operations from Central - BMD & return. Currently the XPT's have to take on fuel in both directions at Grafton, for the return working, leading unit in both directions. The distance from Grafton to Roma St is the longest section for them but I cannot find anywhere that provides the distance from the border to Roma St, currently the NSW distance for the Grafton-Border is shown as 180km.s a total of 360Km's each direction, only slightly longer than the short north distance.  

The combined distances on the North would save a good amount of costs of dieseline over the Northern & Western lines even in the short distances. If a NSW government ever decided to put the wires up to Maitland/Telerah that would also be repaid in not that long a time overall. Meaning the only need for DMU types would be for the MBK/Scone and Dungog trains.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
The overhead helps because it reduces the amount of fuel used and the train is actually much simpler with electric traction motors then with the extremely unreliable transmissions used in the xplorer and vlocity. It is much better for when the train is sitting at Central station and not spewing out harmful diesel emissions.
simstrain
You keep making the assertion without backing it up with evidence. The VLocity is one of the most reliable DMUs in the world: https://cummins.com.au/sites/au/files/file_attachments/Case%20Study-VLocity.pdf

Mechanical transmissions are compact and these days extremely reliable, which is why most purpose-built DMUs use them - as opposed to the EMU/DEMU platform that CAF's XPT replacement is based on.

As for whether CAF's foreign-designed, foreign-built offering will perform reliably in NSW's notorious rail environment - time will tell. I hope that they will heed the lessons of the original XPT...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The overhead helps because it reduces the amount of fuel used and the train is actually much simpler with electric traction motors then with the extremely unreliable transmissions used in the xplorer and vlocity. It is much better for when the train is sitting at Central station and not spewing out harmful diesel emissions.
You keep making the assertion without backing it up with evidence. The VLocity is one of the most reliable DMUs in the world: https://cummins.com.au/sites/au/files/file_attachments/Case%20Study-VLocity.pdf

Mechanical transmissions are compact and these days extremely reliable, which is why most purpose-built DMUs use them - as opposed to the EMU/DEMU platform that CAF's XPT replacement is based on.

As for whether CAF's foreign-designed, foreign-built offering will perform reliably in NSW's notorious rail environment - time will tell. I hope that they will heed the lessons of the original XPT...
LancedDendrite

That is nothing more then an ad. Where are the actual numbers to back this up? Or maybe if you look at this you will see that it isn't that reliable. https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/5806542/vline-has-a-reliability-shocker-with-levels-not-seen-since-2016/

NSW's main issue is the curves and climbs which the new DEMU will be much better suited to especially across the blue mountains and to Newcastle where it will be running on the overhead.

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