The PTUA have thoughts on the free tram zone (not that you would believe everything Bomen says).  The the free tram zone crowding trams to the point where the system is not working not not performing?

As a union leader, I would have expected him to advocate more trams & drivers, rather than less passengers.

Public Transport Users Association

its great, If you don't have a myki

its great, If you don't have a myki

Its not great if you are elderly and are trying to get on a tram in the free zone as they are usually chockers

At times and i mean rarely i have tried to use a tram in the melbourne City area it has been near impossible to get on.  

Is the solution more trams?

User pays. Problem solved.
PTV is NOT a registered charity, and this service shouldn't be the exclusive domain of free loaders who are predominantly residential types fresh to the city taking the pIss with a free service every weekend.

Regards

Ps - In actual fact, what's to be said for returning the city circle train as a compliment to this???

Regards

User pays. Problem solved.
PTV is NOT a registered charity, and this service shouldn't be the exclusive domain of free loaders who are predominantly residential types fresh to the city taking the pIss with a free service every weekend.

Regards

Ps - In actual fact, what's to be said for returning the city circle train as a compliment to this???

Regards

Bringing back the City Circle train would be a great improvement for transport around the CBD, particularly after lunchtime on weekdays when there is no direct service from the City Loop stations to either Flinders Street or Southern Cross.

The city circle line would be useful if it could be easily integrated with the new Metro 1 from a passenger perspective the Metro 1 does not connect with SCS.

Free Tram Zone created demand and this demand needs to be met with supply.  If it is not then we have a shortfall and overcrowding.

At times and i mean rarely i have tried to use a tram in the melbourne City area it has been near impossible to get on.  

Is the solution more trams?

Not more trams, just modern trams with adequate capacity.

Trams have always been crowded with intra-CBD traffic, even in the fare paying (and no City Loop) days. You need to establish what percentage of users are actually freeloaders, which is a bit difficult given such journeys are not logged. As has been mentioned many times elsewhere, most people travelling in the Free Tram Zone will have already paid for it with a public transport journey from outside the FTZ. (Short journeys have been made less attractive by the increased spacing between tram stops.)

The whole issue of inner Melbourne interchanging now and in the future needs to be looked at. Some of the crowding on trams has been caused by running trains direct to or from Flinders Street. For example, to get to Melbourne Uni from the Sandringham line you have to travel all the way through the CBD from Flinders Street whereas as those from the east and south-east interchange at Melbourne Central. (Interchanging at Melbourne Central is another story, since developers lengthened the journey some 2 - 3 mins by forcing people to walk past their shops.) Some passengers from the west would find it easier to catch a tram up Bourke or Collins Street from Southern Cross rather than change to a crowded City Loop service at North Melbourne.

Metro Tunnel 1 will increase demand on trams in Collins Street as passengers from Town Hall head east or west, whereas previously they had direct access to Parliament, Flagstaff or Southern Cross. A similar situation will occur with La Trobe Street trams at State Library. If Metro Tunnel 2 runs via Parkville, Flagstaff and Southern Cross, a lot of commuters will be dumped in the north-west of the CBD with trams being a major option for completing their journey.

There are other non-tram interchange issues. If the Frankston and Craigieburn lines are through-routed via the City Loop then the only point for a direct interchange with some (most) regional services (eg Geelong and Ballarat) and the proposed Melbourne Airport line will be at North Melbourne. Getting to Southern Cross will require 2 interchanges. Future interchanging at Clifton Hill, Caulfield and Footscray is predicated on an equal number of people transferring from one full train as do from the other, which may not be the case. The Suburban Rail Loop may also affect some of the above. Perhaps interchanging should be discussed in a separate Melbourne Suburban thread.

People that appear to have had their laziness encouraged by jumping on a tram for a short journey (assumed to be on a fine day, not pouring rain or 35^oC+), rather than walk, and added to the sardine-tin feel that plagues trams throughout the CBD, to paraphrase a Melbourne newspaper, are really just participating in the Melbourne public transport experience, which will increasingly involve interchanging.

I frequently use the no 11 tram from North Fitzroy to the CBD. To come home, I board in Collins Street at either Elizabeth Street or Swanston Street. The source of the overcrowding is quite obvious. Business people coming from the Queen/William Streets area are saving time using the free tram rather than walking. Some alight at Swanston Street, and even more get off at the 101 Collins Street stop. The final few travel to Spring Street, including a few of the well-heeled gents on their way to the Melbourne Club. From there onwards, there are usually setas available for everyone.

I frequently use the no 11 tram from North Fitzroy to the CBD. To come home, I board in Collins Street at either Elizabeth Street or Swanston Street. The source of the overcrowding is quite obvious. Business people coming from the Queen/William Streets area are saving time using the free tram rather than walking. Some alight at Swanston Street, and even more get off at the 101 Collins Street stop. The final few travel to Spring Street, including a few of the well-heeled gents on their way to the Melbourne Club. From there onwards, there are usually setas available for everyone.

Is it OK if you commute into the city by train, and therefore even if there was no free tram zone, you would still be entitled to travel from Queen Street to Spring Street without further charge?

Is it OK if you commute into the city by train, and therefore even if there was no free tram zone, you would still be entitled to travel from Queen Street to Spring Street without further charge?

All I commented upon was the source of the crowds. I had no comment to make about the free travel, and still don't.

Is it OK if you commute into the city by train, and therefore even if there was no free tram zone, you would still be entitled to travel from Queen Street to Spring Street without further charge?

All I commented upon was the source of the crowds. I had no comment to make about the free travel, and still don't.

Fair enough. I catch the route 12 in the middle of the day, outbound, from Southern Cross, and the little A class trams are packed when I board. The Casino and the first stop at the South Melbourne shops seem to see most of the crowds disappear.

Is it OK if you commute into the city by train, and therefore even if there was no free tram zone, you would still be entitled to travel from Queen Street to Spring Street without further charge?

All I commented upon was the source of the crowds. I had no comment to make about the free travel, and still don't.

Fair enough. I catch the route 12 in the middle of the day, outbound, from Southern Cross, and the little A class trams are packed when I board. The Casino and the first stop at the South Melbourne shops seem to see most of the crowds disappear.

Metro Tunnel 1 will increase demand on trams in Collins Street as passengers from Town Hall head east or west, whereas previously they had direct access to Parliament, Flagstaff or Southern Cross. A similar situation will occur with La Trobe Street trams at State Library. If Metro Tunnel 2 runs via Parkville, Flagstaff and Southern Cross, a lot of commuters will be dumped in the north-west of the CBD with trams being a major option for completing their journey.

Interesting theory, but I would have thought that since MT is below the Loop and given road congestion, a good number of those will interchange to Loop trains to complete their journey. Ditto for MM2. Change Flagstaff for Parliament, Clifton Hill for FSS, Parkville for Melbourne Central.

The city circle line would be useful if it could be easily integrated with the new Metro 1 from a passenger perspective the Metro 1 does not connect with SCS.

Codswallop. If coming from Sunbury, change at Footscray as currently. From other Northern lines, change at North Melbourne as currently. If coming from Dandenong, change at South Yarra.

Easier in nearly every case!

Fair enough. I catch the route 12 in the middle of the day, outbound, from Southern Cross, and the little A class trams are packed when I board. The Casino and the first stop at the South Melbourne shops seem to see most of the crowds disappear.

Both outside the Free Tram Zone.

Interesting theory, but I would have thought that since MT is below the Loop and given road congestion, a good number of those will interchange to Loop trains to complete their journey. Ditto for MM2. Change Flagstaff for Parliament, Clifton Hill for FSS, Parkville for Melbourne Central.

Metro Tunnel 1’s stations are not directly below the Loop. Town Hall starts at Flinders Street and extends to just north of Collins Street. State Library starts at La Trobe Street and extends to the City Baths. Assuming your standard average passenger alights in the middle of the platform, it will be 200 metres (horizontal) or so to the platforms at Flinders Street or Melbourne Central. It will be just as easy or easier to access trams in Collins Street or La Trobe Street.

There are too many interchange options to discuss fully here. However, as an example, a Dandenong line passenger that currently uses Parliament could exit at Town Hall and catch a Collins Street tram. There are no Flinders Street direct Parliament trains (even if the City Circle was reinstated) so he/she would have to continue to State Library and catch a train to Parliament. Also, trams provide more stops. (Interchanging at Caulfield sort of defeats the purpose of the system.) A Dandenong line passenger heading for Docklands or William Street that currently gets off at Southern Cross could catch a Collins Street tram from Town Hall.

Metro Tunnel 2 is obviously still just a loose proposal but the route needs consideration, terrain notwithstanding. If the bulk of the Mernda and Werribee line people want to go to the centre or east of the CBD (the west still being very much business hours) the route should reflect this, not dump them in the northwest of the CBD. Interchanging at Clifton Hill, for example, would require enough Parkville passengers from a Hurstbridge train to balance east-CBD from Mernda passengers. (Because of the non-reversal of the Clifton Loop, AM and PM would be different.)

The City Loop provided 5 distribution points in the CBD. Prior to the early 80s ‘everybody’ jumped on a tram to or from either Flinders or Spencer Street Stations. Now that is being wound back. Potentially, Dandenong & Sunbury lines will have only 2 points, Frankston & Craigieburn lines only 3 (through-routing) and Mernda & Werribee lines only 2 (if Metro Tunnel 2 is via Flagstaff and Southern Cross). Whilst a lot of commuters will use other trains or walk, a significant proportion of the interchange load will be borne by trams.

......... If coming from Dandenong, change at South Yarra. ........

Caulfield.

I thought it was common knowledge (or at least, a popular theory at the time) that the Free Tram Zone was created because there was no way for ticket inspectors to enforce Myki use on crowded city trams. Rather than having ticket inspectors trying to push through packed trams or get swamped at stops as dozens of passengers streamed past, they gave up on enforcing ticket use in the CBD and moved onto lurking at the fringes of the free tram zone (especially on the Melb Uni stops) to nab fare evaders there.

I see both the PTUA, ticket collection and those supporting free tram zone point of view, so I think the answer is simple. If you are travelling outside the city, you have a ticket so no issue being technically free over this section. However for those who rarely catch the tram and don't have Myki and for those who do but just travelling around the city there must be an alt in the middle.

For say $5 to 10/weekor $40/mth, you have unlimited access to the CBD/free tram zone. No swiping required and marked on your Myki card.

It is just about impossible to catch the 96 or 109 (and the laughable A-class-only 12) anywhere between Crown and Spring St even when it's nearly midnight. Yarra Trams really needs a "More Trams More Often" campaign to one-up the Metro Tunnel.