Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 02 Jul 2019 08:35
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dubbo XPT already stops at Tarana as well as Rydal on request.  It would make more sense for the Bathurst Bullet to have permanent stops at these stations and Wallerawang as well,  and allow the XPT, or any future Regional service, to run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Bathurst is considered to be part of the Intercity network.

Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dubbo XPT already stops at Tarana as well as Rydal on request.  It would make more sense for the Bathurst Bullet to have permanent stops at these stations and Wallerawang as well,  and allow the XPT, or any future Regional service, to run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Bathurst is considered to be part of the Intercity network.

Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana
Transtopic

The XPT doesn't go in to the city in the morning like the bullet does. I still believe a more frequent local service between lithgow and bathurst or orange is a better option for a connection to the DD network for this area.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The age old issue.  If a train goes there, lets stop there.  Lets stop everywhere.

And then lets complain that the train takes too long to get to Sydney so lets drive instead.....

My message for the Tarana Valley - use this service now you have it.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dubbo XPT already stops at Tarana as well as Rydal on request.  It would make more sense for the Bathurst Bullet to have permanent stops at these stations and Wallerawang as well,  and allow the XPT, or any future Regional service, to run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Bathurst is considered to be part of the Intercity network.

Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana
Transtopic


Dubbo XPT is west in the AM, east in the PM. Very unhelpful for the residents of Tarana who might need to get to, say, Lithgow.

Wallerawang is a closed station.
  craigfitz1 Train Controller

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dubbo XPT already stops at Tarana as well as Rydal on request.  It would make more sense for the Bathurst Bullet to have permanent stops at these stations and Wallerawang as well,  and allow the XPT, or any future Regional service, to run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Bathurst is considered to be part of the Intercity network.

Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana


Dubbo XPT is west in the AM, east in the PM. Very unhelpful for the residents of Tarana who might need to get to, say, Lithgow.

Wallerawang is a closed station.
s3_gunzel

A very sensible decision....and should also be heavily promoted to folk from nearby Oberon, who will now have a user-friendly way for getting into Sydney for the day or for longer. And presumably at Opal Card prices, rather than Regional Fares.

Meanwhile, it is high past time for Wallerawang to have a similar service offered.
I think the patronage would be significant enough to make it worthwhile. Wallerawang is a decent-sized town.
And the departure time in the morning would be fairly reasonable, being closer to 7-00 than 6-00.
It would also give folk from nearby towns like Portland a convenient way to get into the city for the day (or longer).

I do take the point that stopping at every little byway can add journey time, but the Tarana and Wallerawang stops do make much sense and help with local connectivity in a significant way.
If the Bullet needs to save some journey time, then perhaps review the need to stop at both Mt Vic and Springwood (both of which are very well served by other services).

In the long term, a couple of more Bathurst-Lithgow shuttles could perhaps remove the need for the XPT to stop anywhere between Bathurst and Lithgow.

All in all, an interesting change in thinking with NSW Trains, who now seem to take seriously suggestions from local communities for better rail services, rather than a default decision of 'no' or 'it is too hard'. (Other examples: the coming mid-week Griffith service, the planned second Bathurst daily train, the addition of Millthorpe to the network, the coming extra Singleton service....).
Now how much of this change of heart comes from within NSW Trains, as opposed to being from their political masters, is another matter.

-Craig
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

There are no bathurst to lithgow shuttles at the moment and until the new regional rolling stock is opertational there is not enough rolling stock to provide this service in addition to the bullets.
  Travelling Hooker Locomotive Fireman

Location: Follows the weather up and down the coast
Much as I like Tarana railway station, where are the Locksley, Sodwalls and Raglan boosters?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Offer the stops between Lithgow and Bathurst to the Bullet

If the train stops for people to get on, great a service has been created.

If the train fails to stop due to lack people, then no time lost.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dubbo XPT already stops at Tarana as well as Rydal on request.  It would make more sense for the Bathurst Bullet to have permanent stops at these stations and Wallerawang as well,  and allow the XPT, or any future Regional service, to run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.  Bathurst is considered to be part of the Intercity network.

Bathurst Bullet stop will be a boost for Tarana


Dubbo XPT is west in the AM, east in the PM. Very unhelpful for the residents of Tarana who might need to get to, say, Lithgow.

Wallerawang is a closed station.
s3_gunzel
I'm well aware of that, and that's why the Bullet should already be stopping at Rydal, Tarana and potentially Wallerawang in both directions.  The existing XPT service and a likely future morning Up and evening Down service when the new Regional trains come into operation should run express between Bathurst and Lithgow and vice versa.  The Bullet services should pick up the intermediate stations in both directions. If it adds 5 minutes to the timetable, it's not the end of the world.  If it encourages greater patronage, then it will be worth it.

I know Wallerawang is a closed station, but there's no reason why it can't be re-opened, just as they've recently done with Millthorpe for Dubbo XPT services.

I'm often critical of this government's rail policies, but in this instance, I'm prepared to give them credit where credit is due.  They are at least attempting to improve accessibility to the rail system for regional communities, which has been sadly lacking in recent times.
.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Just to add to my previous post, there is an opportunity to start and terminate the later Bullet service from and to Orange, where there has been lobbying from the Orange community for such a service.  The existing Bullet from Bathurst starts very early and it is impracticable and hardly user friendly to start even earlier from Orange while maintaining the same timetable.  The later Bullet service would allow for a more acceptable and user friendly starting time from Orange, although still in the wee hours.  

Combined with a morning and afternoon Dubbo XPT/Regional service, this would give Orange and Bathurst in particular, a vastly upgraded rail connection with Sydney.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

Wallerawang should also be a stop. This town is even bigger than Tarana, and it is far enough away from Lithgow. Why should its residents bus it or or drive into Lithgow when the train can just STOP there?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Wallerawang should also be a stop. This town is even bigger than Tarana, and it is far enough away from Lithgow. Why should its residents bus it or or drive into Lithgow when the train can just STOP there?
ANR
Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
RTT_Rules
Retain stop at Mt Vic as a transfer to Blue Mts trains, maybe drop Katoomba and Springwood. Apart from Rydal and Tarana, the only other extant stations that could be added to the Bullet are Wallerawang and Raglan - Brewongle, Locksley and Sodwalls are long gone. Orange Bullet will require stabling and crewing arrangements, easy enough when the new regional trains start, but maybe not so practical yet. Remember, there is no stabling at Bathurst either, current Bullet returns to Lithgow in the wee hours, a timetabled service that I imagine few (if any) use.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Wallerawang should also be a stop. This town is even bigger than Tarana, and it is far enough away from Lithgow. Why should its residents bus it or or drive into Lithgow when the train can just STOP there?
Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
RTT_Rules

why not katoomba or mt victoria at the very least?
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
As “on request” and set-down-only (up direction, pick up only for down trains), it may work.

Problem is the more stops the train makes, the less competitive with car travel. There is already the convenience factor (train at a fixed time, car leaves when you’re ready). If you convert the Bullet into the Bathurst Snail (even if it’s only a perception), then the train will lose out.

My ongoing bugbear on the Mudgee route is a 2-and-a half hour bus ride to Lithgow, connecting to a 3 hour milk run (all to Penrith, then at least 3 more stops to Sydney) = 5.5 hours.

Or drive in 3.5, or fly in 1 (plus 15 minutes to the city).

Same principle applies to Bathurst. Or Orange. Or Canberra for that matter.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
Retain stop at Mt Vic as a transfer to Blue Mts trains, maybe drop Katoomba and Springwood. Apart from Rydal and Tarana, the only other extant stations that could be added to the Bullet are Wallerawang and Raglan - Brewongle, Locksley and Sodwalls are long gone. Orange Bullet will require stabling and crewing arrangements, easy enough when the new regional trains start, but maybe not so practical yet. Remember, there is no stabling at Bathurst either, current Bullet returns to Lithgow in the wee hours, a timetabled service that I imagine few (if any) use.
NSWRcars
No,
For Mt Vic, have a decent cross platform transfer onto a spark at Lithgow and off you go, which currently there isn't.

For Katoomba, potentially ok instead of Springwood as now there is a current connection, assume this is retained.

The current Springwood stop does not provide a connection, so unless there was demand for the west of Lithgow stations to Sprinwood, then delete it. Save time, focus on stopping where there are currently no trains stopping.

Dsiclaimer to above, need to look at the OPAL data to see where these people on the Bullet are actually going and match it as practical as possible. To save the Bullet time, I'm trying to link stops with connections to intermediate  stations beyond that connection stop.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As “on request” and set-down-only (up direction, pick up only for down trains), it may work.

Problem is the more stops the train makes, the less competitive with car travel. There is already the convenience factor (train at a fixed time, car leaves when you’re ready). If you convert the Bullet into the Bathurst Snail (even if it’s only a perception), then the train will lose out.

My ongoing bugbear on the Mudgee route is a 2-and-a half hour bus ride to Lithgow, connecting to a 3 hour milk run (all to Penrith, then at least 3 more stops to Sydney) = 5.5 hours.

Or drive in 3.5, or fly in 1 (plus 15 minutes to the city).

Same principle applies to Bathurst. Or Orange. Or Canberra for that matter.
SinickleBird
Hence focus on extra stops being in the Bullet territory, not the Katoomba/Mt Vic/Lithgow services.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Springwood is not needed for the bullet since there is nothing at Springwood of necessary value and I have no issue with that station being dropped. Springwood just happens to be as far as the wide rolling stock can go at the moment. Either katoomba or mt vic should be chosen for interchange on to the electric network in the mountains.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Springwood is not needed for the bullet since there is nothing at Springwood of necessary value and I have no issue with that station being dropped. Springwood just happens to be as far as the wide rolling stock can go at the moment. Either katoomba or mt vic should be chosen for interchange on to the electric network in the mountains.
simstrain
With the new rollingstock everywhere and upgrades to the track etc etc, going forward there should be a cross platform connection at Lithgow and Katoomba (current timetable). No other stops in the mountains required until Penrith.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
Retain stop at Mt Vic as a transfer to Blue Mts trains, maybe drop Katoomba and Springwood. Apart from Rydal and Tarana, the only other extant stations that could be added to the Bullet are Wallerawang and Raglan - Brewongle, Locksley and Sodwalls are long gone. Orange Bullet will require stabling and crewing arrangements, easy enough when the new regional trains start, but maybe not so practical yet. Remember, there is no stabling at Bathurst either, current Bullet returns to Lithgow in the wee hours, a timetabled service that I imagine few (if any) use.
NSWRcars
The primary focus should be on where potential passengers between Orange/Bathurst and Lithgow want to go.  I suspect most would have destinations in the Sydney metro area.  There may be some who want to go to Lithgow or Katoomba which are the major towns in the Blue Mountains region.  Access to any other stations in the Blue Mountains will be possible by changing at either Lithgow or Katoomba to the electric Intercity service.  Timetables will need to be synchronised to allow for convenient interchange.  I don't see the need for the Bullet to stop at either Mt Victoria or Springwood, as there would be few if any passengers wanting to alight there.  These stations already have their Intercity service.

With regard to stations between Bathurst and Lithgow, Raglan and Brewongle are within minutes drive of Bathurst and there's no need for extra stops there.  The other closed stations are in small villages which don't warrant extra stops.  My suggestion is that the only stops between Bathurst and Lithgow should be Tarana, Rydal and Wallerawang.  This isn't going to add any significant increase in journey time.  The Dubbo XPT and its later upgrading with the new regional fleet should run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.

My suggested stopping pattern is -

Bathurst
Tarana
Rydal
Wallerawang
Lithgow
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I acknowledge that overnight stabling at Bathurst and also potentially Orange will have to be established, together with rostering of staff.  I know a driver based in Lithgow who regularly works the Bullet service and he said it makes a long day when you have a very early morning start to drive the train from Lithgow to Bathurst for the morning service to Sydney and then have to return from Bathurst to Lithgow at the end of the later shift.  With an increase in services, this could surely avoid this unnecessary working.

If the second Bullet service were to be extended to and from Orange as I suggested in my earlier post, then stations serviced between Orange and Bathurst would also have to be considered.  But that's another story.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
Retain stop at Mt Vic as a transfer to Blue Mts trains, maybe drop Katoomba and Springwood. Apart from Rydal and Tarana, the only other extant stations that could be added to the Bullet are Wallerawang and Raglan - Brewongle, Locksley and Sodwalls are long gone. Orange Bullet will require stabling and crewing arrangements, easy enough when the new regional trains start, but maybe not so practical yet. Remember, there is no stabling at Bathurst either, current Bullet returns to Lithgow in the wee hours, a timetabled service that I imagine few (if any) use.
The primary focus should be on where potential passengers between Orange/Bathurst and Lithgow want to go.  I suspect most would have destinations in the Sydney metro area.  There may be some who want to go to Lithgow or Katoomba which are the major towns in the Blue Mountains region.  Access to any other stations in the Blue Mountains will be possible by changing at either Lithgow or Katoomba to the electric Intercity service.  Timetables will need to be synchronised to allow for convenient interchange.  I don't see the need for the Bullet to stop at either Mt Victoria or Springwood, as there would be few if any passengers wanting to alight there.  These stations already have their Intercity service.

With regard to stations between Bathurst and Lithgow, Raglan and Brewongle are within minutes drive of Bathurst and there's no need for extra stops there.  The other closed stations are in small villages which don't warrant extra stops.  My suggestion is that the only stops between Bathurst and Lithgow should be Tarana, Rydal and Wallerawang.  This isn't going to add any significant increase in journey time.  The Dubbo XPT and its later upgrading with the new regional fleet should run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.

My suggested stopping pattern is -

Bathurst
Tarana
Rydal
Wallerawang
Lithgow
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I acknowledge that overnight stabling at Bathurst and also potentially Orange will have to be established, together with rostering of staff.  I know a driver based in Lithgow who regularly works the Bullet service and he said it makes a long day when you have a very early morning start to drive the train from Lithgow to Bathurst for the morning service to Sydney and then have to return from Bathurst to Lithgow at the end of the later shift.  With an increase in services, this could surely avoid this unnecessary working.

If the second Bullet service were to be extended to and from Orange as I suggested in my earlier post, then stations serviced between Orange and Bathurst would also have to be considered.  But that's another story.
Transtopic
You are not serious. Tonight's WN17 had very few passengers on it. Orange, catch the XPT. Orange would need an Xplorer service.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Stops should be
Organge/Bathurst all to Lithgow including most of the most of the existing closed stations as alert driver for stop and guard to get off.

Springwood
Penrith
Paramatta
Central
Retain stop at Mt Vic as a transfer to Blue Mts trains, maybe drop Katoomba and Springwood. Apart from Rydal and Tarana, the only other extant stations that could be added to the Bullet are Wallerawang and Raglan - Brewongle, Locksley and Sodwalls are long gone. Orange Bullet will require stabling and crewing arrangements, easy enough when the new regional trains start, but maybe not so practical yet. Remember, there is no stabling at Bathurst either, current Bullet returns to Lithgow in the wee hours, a timetabled service that I imagine few (if any) use.
The primary focus should be on where potential passengers between Orange/Bathurst and Lithgow want to go.  I suspect most would have destinations in the Sydney metro area.  There may be some who want to go to Lithgow or Katoomba which are the major towns in the Blue Mountains region.  Access to any other stations in the Blue Mountains will be possible by changing at either Lithgow or Katoomba to the electric Intercity service.  Timetables will need to be synchronised to allow for convenient interchange.  I don't see the need for the Bullet to stop at either Mt Victoria or Springwood, as there would be few if any passengers wanting to alight there.  These stations already have their Intercity service.

With regard to stations between Bathurst and Lithgow, Raglan and Brewongle are within minutes drive of Bathurst and there's no need for extra stops there.  The other closed stations are in small villages which don't warrant extra stops.  My suggestion is that the only stops between Bathurst and Lithgow should be Tarana, Rydal and Wallerawang.  This isn't going to add any significant increase in journey time.  The Dubbo XPT and its later upgrading with the new regional fleet should run express between Bathurst and Lithgow.

My suggested stopping pattern is -

Bathurst
Tarana
Rydal
Wallerawang
Lithgow
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I acknowledge that overnight stabling at Bathurst and also potentially Orange will have to be established, together with rostering of staff.  I know a driver based in Lithgow who regularly works the Bullet service and he said it makes a long day when you have a very early morning start to drive the train from Lithgow to Bathurst for the morning service to Sydney and then have to return from Bathurst to Lithgow at the end of the later shift.  With an increase in services, this could surely avoid this unnecessary working.

If the second Bullet service were to be extended to and from Orange as I suggested in my earlier post, then stations serviced between Orange and Bathurst would also have to be considered.  But that's another story.
You are not serious. Tonight's WN17 had very few passengers on it. Orange, catch the XPT. Orange would need an Xplorer service.
nswtrains
I don't get your point.  Could you elaborate a little further.
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller


I seem to recall the Bullet stop at Springwood was lobbied for when the service first started. In any case, actual Bullet stops east of Lithgow are a minor timetable tweak that can be changed as needed. The current Up connection with an all stopper at Katoomba is convenient in the current timetable, but could just as easily be made elsewhere in another timetable.

As for Wallerawang, while there is no reason it could not be added as a Bullet stop, I wonder if anyone would use it? Wallerawang is a spread out town, and who is going to make their way from Portland or Lidsdale to change for a train to Lithgow?
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
The XPT doesn't go in to the city in the morning like the bullet does. I still believe a more frequent local service between lithgow and bathurst or orange is a better option for a connection to the DD network for this area.
simstrain
Could this potentially provide a faster service to Sydney considering the better performance of EMU trains compared to DMU's? this could be especially true when the NIF arrives.

Should the stopping pattern be:

Orange
Millthorpe (d)
Blayney (d)
Bathurst
Tarana (d)
Rydal (d)
Wallerawang (d)
Lithgow
---change for electric service---
Katoomba
Penrith
Parramatta
Central

I would hope that any timed gained stopped at Tarana, Rydal, or Wallerawang would be saved back with the faster acceleration of an electric train.
Given that Lithgow is an island platform, changing trains should be relatively easy.

If the second Bullet service were to be extended to and from Orange as I suggested in my earlier post, then stations serviced between Orange and Bathurst would also have to be considered. But that's another story.
transtopic
Could make them all demand stops, it would make no sense for people living further away from Sydney to get a cheaper trip (Opal fares) than people living closer (regional fares).
The only problem is if having on demand stops actually saves any time? even if a train doesn't stop at all between Orange and Bathurst and Lithgow, it's still timetabled to arrive at these locations at a set time right? Could arriving into the Sydney metropolitan area ahead of schedule result in being stuck behind a suburban anyway?
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

The only problem is if having on demand stops actually saves any time? even if a train doesn't stop at all between Orange and Bathurst and Lithgow, it's still timetabled to arrive at these locations at a set time right?
Ethan1395
You just add a couple of minutes slack to the timetable.

On-demand stops aren’t about time savings, rather cost of providing the service. I have caught the XPT from Katoomba to Rydal. From memory the fare was about $6, which wouldn’t even cover the cost of brake pad wear on the XPT, let alone the fuel used to accelerate out of Rydal.

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