Boris Johnson - New British PM

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
* This is the reason that we are in this mess, the original referendum had no criteria to define the meaning of the result and ensure that a narrow result would be treated as undecisive. Even Nigel Farage said that a 52-48 result should be treated as undecided!
justapassenger
Don't assume it won't be even wider next time if the parliament doesn't deliver the will of the people.

The EU has been playing dirty to try and run out the clock on an agreement, they don't want the UK with its 50-million odd residents to leave their legislative influence - a foundation member cuts-and-runs - how will it look when the UK does really well as a consequence of its complete exit?

Scotland won't have an EU to leave for, the experiment will be over.

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  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Don't assume it won't be even wider next time if the parliament doesn't deliver the will of the people.
don_dunstan
I think you read the talking points incorrectly.

The official pro-Brexit line on this to date has been to mumble incoherently, not to suggest actually calling it and seeing how it goes.

Would it not be the case that seeking the approval directly from the people is the most democratic way of moving forward?

The EU has been playing dirty to try and run out the clock on an agreement,
don_dunstan
You're a very unconvincing liar, I hereby award you the Gold Howard trophy for outstanding endeavour in the field of bulls!t and rat-fµckery.

It's actually the UK which has been vacillating about the way forward and asking the EU for extensions to the timeframe from that set out by the treaty they agreed to, not the EU.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
One of the major drawbacks of a hard Brexit will be the reintroduction of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.  Having recently driven all over Ireland, the only change you notice when crossing the border is the change in road signs from miles to kilometres.  It would be a travesty if customs and border controls were reintroduced.  After a period of relative peace, this outcome should not be taken lightly.

I'd suggest that the only reason why the Conservative Party is taking a hard line on Brexit is because they are reliant on the support of the Northern Ireland reactionaries to remain in government.  The only way to resolve this impasse is for another election.  Boris may find that he has no control over this outcome.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Trump, Johnson and Morrison.  Hardly inspiring leaders at all.
And the extreme "wokeism" of the Left will keep these guys in charge for a while....
I put it down to the self interest of large corporates (and media like Murdoch) more than anything the left does.  I see the left as a reaction to the dominance of the right, not the other way around.
The dominance of the Right at the present time is a reaction to the lunatic leftism and fanatic identity politics of the elite...

Johnson - educated at Eton and Oxford and you say the elites are part of the problem Laughing
bingley hall
And Bob Hawke?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Should he attempt to wave through a no-deal Brexit without the authority of the Parliament, I think we would find that the Queen's officers would find ways to stall it until he can demonstrate that there is confidence in his position.
justapassenger
Why should the Queen's officers need to stall until he can demonstrate confidence in his government? The Queen's officers already have the result of the single largest voter turn out at a referendum ever. 52% of that makes it hard to question legitimacy. Perhaps instead the Queen's officers ought to question the legitimacy of the opposition in Parliament?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I think you read the talking points incorrectly.

The official pro-Brexit line on this to date has been to mumble incoherently, not to suggest actually calling it and seeing how it goes.

Would it not be the case that seeking the approval directly from the people is the most democratic way of moving forward?
justapassenger
They did that in 2016. James Cameron in his wisdom tried to kill off the Euroskeptics in his party once and for all by affirming their presence in the EU - and guess what? They didn't get the result they wanted and Cameron had to resign.

If you seriously think another referendum would have a different result then you're as deluded as all those London-centric dolts who thought the rest of the country agreed with their world view the first time around.
You're a very unconvincing liar, I hereby award you the Gold Howard trophy for outstanding endeavour in the field of bulls!t and rat-fµckery. It's actually the UK which has been vacillating about the way forward and asking the EU for extensions to the timeframe from that set out by the treaty they agreed to, not the EU.
justapassenger
You're just upset because it's not unfolding in the manner that you want it to - fair enough. That the Conservative Party and parliament are unable to reach an internal agreement on the manner of Brexit isn't surprising in the least.

The UK's 'net' contributions to the EU are in the region of 9 billion pounds - of course Brussels bureaucrats want them to stay in if possible; it's about keeping their power and money.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Should he attempt to wave through a no-deal Brexit without the authority of the Parliament, I think we would find that the Queen's officers would find ways to stall it until he can demonstrate that there is confidence in his position.
Why should the Queen's officers need to stall until he can demonstrate confidence in his government? The Queen's officers already have the result of the single largest voter turn out at a referendum ever. 52% of that makes it hard to question legitimacy. Perhaps instead the Queen's officers ought to question the legitimacy of the opposition in Parliament?
Aaron
It's insane to think that a second referendum is the answer (somehow) - the people delivered their verdict in 2016 and since then it's the government that has been incapable of implementing it.

Despite all the scare campaigns Britain will be better off out of the EU and if they ask the public again then they'll get the same result.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Why should the Queen's officers need to stall until he can demonstrate confidence in his government?
Aaron
Because the Commons passed a majority motion against proroguing the Parliament for the purpose of passing through a no-deal Brexit.

Until shown otherwise in a vote on the floor of the Commons, he doesn't have parliamentary support for a no-deal Brexit.

The Queen's officers already have the result of the single largest voter turn out at a referendum ever. 52% of that makes it hard to question legitimacy.
Aaron
The chief proponent of Brexit himself said it was an indecisive result, looks like that's pretty clear cause to seek decisive ratification before making what would be called a major constitutional change if the UK were a country with a constitution.

If Brexit is so great, why not put it to the people again to seek a decisive outcome? Maybe put four options on the ballot paper this time: Brexit (no deal), Brexit (negotiated), Defer, Abandon.

Perhaps instead the Queen's officers ought to question the legitimacy of the opposition in Parliament?
Aaron
The current MPs were all elected more recently than the referendum, and most of them with two-candidate breakdowns far greater than the Brexit referendum margin.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

JAP! Put four options on the ballot paper? Thanks, most hilarious thing I've heard in sometime. No need to reinvent that wheel.
Referendum has been conducted and a clear result. You only require 50.1% of a business to have control.

BoJo, has been chest thumping, see if he can deliver. If not, on your bike like May.

Have spoken to a mate in The Midlands and he is fuming, we voted, make it happen, at any cost. His words not mine.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
JAP! Put four options on the ballot paper? Thanks, most hilarious thing I've heard in sometime. No need to reinvent that wheel.
Referendum has been conducted and a clear result. You only require 50.1% of a business to have control.

BoJo, has been chest thumping, see if he can deliver. If not, on your bike like May.

Have spoken to a mate in The Midlands and he is fuming, we voted, make it happen, at any cost. His words not mine.
michaelgm

Why did your mate vote for something when it was never explained to him how it would actually be achieved? A bit like buying a new car and not checking it has a motor in it.

Don says May failed miserably, but all she did was try to work with the poisoned chalace that was handed to her. Conman Boris knew this so ran away until May 'failed'. Johnson and Farage are cowardly curs that disappeared post the vote instead of facing up to the results of their actions, neither ever elucidating as to how Brexit could actually be achieved.

Only an A grade simpleton would think that Brexit was a simple question of 'Yes' or 'No' and could be achieved without any significant negotiated financial, political or legislative changes.

Like kids in the sandpit faaaarken.

You choose your leaders and place your trust As their lies wash you down and their promises rust You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns And the public wants what the public gets
Paul Weller
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@DonDunstan Britain will be better off. Based on what? You have no idea.  Trying researching what the EU is about and how poor areas in the UK like Cornwall and Merseyside has benefitted from EU grants.

If you want to talk utter tripe like a little Johnny Englander then fine but fact Leave.org breached Electoral law. Once the red lines were drawn by Ms May e.g. Freedom of movement was removed from negotiations it was always impossible to get a deal even approachimg what the UK has now. And the Office of Budgetary Responsibility states that a No Deal Brexit will wreak havoc on the UK economy.

And Boris Johnson is a lying self interested upper class twit who has stated that he will give tax cuts to the wealthy.

Michael
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Why did your mate vote for something when it was never explained to him how it would actually be achieved? A bit like buying a new car and not checking it has a motor in it.
bingley hall
A brilliant analogy

The UK was sold a pup - when will they realise this?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

David (unless he turned his hand to film directing, eg The Abyss).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
@DonDunstan Britain will be better off. Based on what? You have no idea.  Trying researching what the EU is about and how poor areas in the UK like Cornwall and Merseyside has benefitted from EU grants.

If you want to talk utter tripe like a little Johnny Englander then fine but fact Leave.org breached Electoral law. Once the red lines were drawn by Ms May e.g. Freedom of movement was removed from negotiations it was always impossible to get a deal even approachimg what the UK has now. And the Office of Budgetary Responsibility states that a No Deal Brexit will wreak havoc on the UK economy.

And Boris Johnson is a lying self interested upper class twit who has stated that he will give tax cuts to the wealthy.

Michael
mejhammers1
Michael if I've learned one thing from this board its not to argue with you.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@DonDunstan. Thats because you have no argument Don. Keep drinking the Brexit cool aid.

Michael
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Don says May failed miserably, but all she did was try to work with the poisoned chalace that was handed to her. Conman Boris knew this so ran away until May 'failed'. Johnson and Farage are cowardly curs that disappeared post the vote instead of facing up to the results of their actions, neither ever elucidating as to how Brexit could actually be achieved.
bingley hall
Yes and no - she didn't explore the option of bypassing parliament altogether as I think Boris is about to explore. I guess the fundamental point is that the will of the people is going to be pushed through regardless of whether parliament agrees to its ultimate legislative form. Johnson has been deliberately employed by the governing Conservatives precisely because they need something to happen before the end of the year or be seen as incompetent and unable to deliver a result they themselves asked the British public to vote on.

People keep carping on about how impossible it will be for the UK to return to a pre-EU legal environment as if it's insurmountable ... it isn't, it's just that there's a lot of institutional resistance especially from those businesses that did really well out of a completely open EU albeit with its own international tariffs. Things change.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
@DonDunstan. Thats because you have no argument Don. Keep drinking the Brexit cool aid.

Michael
mejhammers1

If you want to talk utter tripe like a little Johnny Englander then fine but fact Leave.org breached Electoral law. Once the red lines were drawn by Ms May e.g. Freedom of movement was removed from negotiations it was always impossible to get a deal even approachimg what the UK has now. And the Office of Budgetary Responsibility states that a No Deal Brexit will wreak havoc on the UK economy. And Boris Johnson is a lying self interested upper class twit who has stated that he will give tax cuts to the wealthy.
mejhammers1
No, Michael - I can't be bothered with you because you spew the exact same opinionated unfounded rubbish that you accuse everyone else of doing yet you can't see the irony. Apparently self-awareness isn't in your lexicon - fair enough.

But how could I even respond to what you said above anyway, it all exactly fits that criteria - blah blah referendum unfair blah May wuz spiked blah Boris is an upitty twit... blah.


Whatever.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@DonDunstan Really Don. So what if I trashed Boris. You his dad or something. Turnbull has got nothing on that throbber. And stop bringing everyone else into it. I am arguing with you and you alone, stop speaking for others,

You just have to look up any reputable news agency about Boris. Never kept a promise in his life. Makes up stories that gets him fired from the Times.

But of course he says what you like to hear. And I just happen to disagree with you. What I said about Teresa May, dont get me wrong I cannot stand her, getting any sort of a deal is nigh impossible. David Davis was Brexit Minister and achieved a big fat zero. Britain will be better off, not even the most ardent Brexiter is saying that Don. They are now claiming that they voted to be worse off. Any negotiation must abide by EU Rules. All of the EUs rules and regs are published and readable.

The fact that you get cross over me criticising a posh half wit who has Foreign Secretary got a British citizens jail term lengthened speaks volumes Don. Don, Boris Johnson stands for nothing but Boris Johnson. He was a remainer until he saw that by being a leaver he could shore support from the Tory sceptics. He banked on leave losing. They won and he and others were like deer in headlights. You just do not like facts Don.

Opionated. Gees Don I am in league 2 compared to you. Not my fault that  I am holding up a mirror and you do not like what you see.


Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Oh and I forgot Don. No one has the power to bypass Parliament. That is why when Teresa May tried to she was taken to court and lost. This is not opinion, it is fact. Yet another you chose to overlook to suit your agenda. Try looking up some.

Michael
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I just wonder what would be the outcome of a second referendum in the light of the insurmountable difficulties and consequences, which weren't previously apparent in achieving Brexit, in whatever form?  It seems to me as someone from afar that many pro-Brexiteers in the original referendum were overly influenced by populist propaganda, downplaying the negative consequences in leaving the EU.

When London loses its status as the financial capital of Europe, with the resultant loss in prestige and jobs, then they might sit up and take notice.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
When London loses its status as the financial capital of Europe, with the resultant loss in prestige and jobs, then they might sit up and take notice.
Transtopic
Maybe it won't.
  RedEyeExpress Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Many wouldn't lament the loss of some high-end finance industry jobs Wink
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@don Dunstan Deutsche Bank has already moved some swap trading to Frankfurt.  Not to mention the 500 billion pound worth of euro bond business that London was handling.

@RedEyeExpress The Car Industry will be decimated because they rely on just in time delivery of components.

Michael
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
@don Dunstan Deutsche Bank has already moved some swap trading to Frankfurt.  Not to mention the 500 billion pound worth of euro bond business that London was handling.

@RedEyeExpress The Car Industry will be decimated because they rely on just in time delivery of components.

Michael
mejhammers1
Deutsche Bank, that esteemed financial institution about to hit the kerb. Well if they're moving out of London then everyone should probably do the opposite!

No, Michael, you still haven't presented a shred of conclusive evidence about the negative impact of Brexit; it's all just speculation and alarmism.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
@don Dunstan Deutsche Bank has already moved some swap trading to Frankfurt.  Not to mention the 500 billion pound worth of euro bond business that London was handling.

@RedEyeExpress The Car Industry will be decimated because they rely on just in time delivery of components.

Michael
Deutsche Bank, that esteemed financial institution about to hit the kerb. Well if they're moving out of London then everyone should probably do the opposite!

No, Michael, you still haven't presented a shred of conclusive evidence about the negative impact of Brexit; it's all just speculation and alarmism.
don_dunstan
And you're yet to prove that Brexit will be positive besides from conjecture.

Christ if the UK wants to do trade with its nearest neighbours it's gonna have to follow EU regs anyway....

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