Boris Johnson - New British PM

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
‘The LNP will abolish Medicare’ is the same leftist smeg in Australia that Thatcher was faced with the NHS when she was in power - all confected outrage.
Aaron
It's also disingenuous to say that the Liberals haven't come out with good social policies of their own - Menzies legislated the beginnings of a national health system with the National Health Act (1953) and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (1960), he also tipping in for aged care and disability support for the first time ever.

It was a different time for the Liberals though, Menzies would be regarded as a socialist with his introduction of public health programs and protection of the working class via the tariff system.

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  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

@DonDunstan Irony?  Please explain? I bet you cant or you will just say something pithy and dismissive. Same old Don.

You know you are calling for the UK Labour party to be abolished because they do not align with your views. You all know what that leads to.

I am not going to respond to your reply. Clearly you are happy with Boris crooked lying Johnson. Because you know he is on my side.


Michael
No, I'm calling for them to be replaced with something that it representative and electable - nothing more, nothing less. Corbyn's Labour stood for bugger all as far as I can tell and the British public rightly rejected it. So British Labour needs to be replaced with something that people can actually VOTE FOR. It's not rocket science.

And I said nothing about Boris Johnson, you're reading too much into what I say.
No Don. One word did it. Brexit. The average voter in the UK would not have a clue whether leaving the European Union was to their advantage or not. However, a simply little catch word like Brexit always gets the mugs in. They will be sorry when Britain is reduced to the pauper state of Europe. They do not know what they have done.
Yes Brexit did do it. Just look at the gains that Conservative made. All leave areas, that in normal times they would not vote Tory in a Pink fit. And many said as much. Brexit and Corbyn. And the UK has given itself a massive punch in the face.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

mehjammers1, Dan and Don (who like the post) got some numbers on those UK fares being the highest in continental Europe? - Which incidentally while you’re at it could you also advise of a source that even places the UK in continental Europe, because, well, I am in continental Europe right now, and the UK ain’t smeg here.

The UK enjoys some actually quite cheap fares (thanks actually to acts of the parliament under the near universally hated BR days).
A quick look will reveal that Britain has some of the most expensive rail fares in Europe (mainly peak fares on London intercity lines) as well as some of the cheapest, because they have traditionally had a very peaky demand on the rail system and have used the fares system to shift leisure travel to off peak times using advance tickets tied to travelling on a particular train.

The yield management strategy has worked fairly well, as there is a gradual shift towards white collar businesses in London adopting Core Business Hours so people can reliably be on site in the middle of the day while having flexible start/finish times. This allows workers to take advantage of off peak fares if they so desire, while still pulling in the premium salaries that come with working in central London.

They could simplify the fares structure and have it meet in the middle, but they would lose the benefit of the yield management system.

The franchise operators run a profit margin of about 3% on average, which makes it a good deal for Britain because there is no way that BR ever managed to get their public sector wastage down to even 20%.  That is why the last Labour government (a centre-left government which governed for all of Britain and would have kicked Bozo's butt in last week's election, not a Corbynist regime) committed to the system and worked to advance it rather than roll it back.

You just imagine the prices of a season ticket. I know my sister was paying 5500 pounds a year London to Cambridge a journey of 55 miles. Of course you having to catch a certain train is a condition.
Assuming the normal 232 working days per year (48 weeks, minus 8 bank holidays) that's £11.85 for each trip in or out. At current exchange rates that is A$22.96.

Ballarat is a similar distance from Melbourne, and a Myki ticket in the peak costs $22.20.

Considering that Cambridge-London offers a far higher level of service than Ballarat-Melbourne (modern EMUs vs DMUs, over 150 trains each day spread across three different London terminals) I would say that the 76¢ premium makes it a steal.
justapassenger
Thank you for you well though out reply. I has not thought of it that way. Victoria rail system is really years behind that of the UK.

I think it is now 5 London Termini because of Thameslink. St Pancras International, Blackfriars, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street and London Bridge.

Michael
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Thank you for you well though out reply. I has not thought of it that way. Victoria rail system is really years behind that of the UK.
mejhammers1
Season tickets are very good value, being discounted against normal return fares which themselves are (in an idiosyncratic UK practice) often only £1 more than a single for the same trip.

I think it is now 5 London Termini because of Thameslink. St Pancras International, Blackfriars, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street and London Bridge.
mejhammers1
I've looked up a few more details, it depends on whether it's a ticket to London Terminals or to London Thameslink.

London Terminals is valid at 5 stations: London Kings Cross, London Liverpool Street, London St Pancras International (on the Thameslink platforms) and with a change of trains to Moorgate and Old Street (a through station on the Moorgate line, but part of the London Terminals group for ticketing purposes). An annual season ticket to London Terminals is £5108 (£11.00 per trip).

London Thameslink is valid at 6 stations - London St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge, Elephant & Castle. An annual season ticket to London Thameslink is £5428 (£11.69 per trip) so it would seem this is what your sister has.

The worst thing about the British ticketing system (inherited from BR, then hacked around with for 25 years by different operators) is the complexity, not the pricing. It could really benefit from walking away from the idea of there being a ticket from every station to every other station and embrace a zonal approach with different categories of services.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

‘The LNP will abolish Medicare’ is the same leftist smeg in Australia that Thatcher was faced with the NHS when she was in power - all confected outrage.
It's also disingenuous to say that the Liberals haven't come out with good social policies of their own - Menzies legislated the beginnings of a national health system with the National Health Act (1953) and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (1960), he also tipping in for aged care and disability support for the first time ever.

It was a different time for the Liberals though, Menzies would be regarded as a socialist with his introduction of public health programs and protection of the working class via the tariff system.
don_dunstan
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
nswtrains
Please explain!
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
Please explain!
RTT_Rules
Three decades of history and I'll ignore how they abolished Medibank. We have a Medicare system that's stretched to the limit with a heavily subsidised Private System which many cannot afford but have no real choice.
Classic LNP economics, socialise the losses, privatise the profits. Razz
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It's also disingenuous to say that the Liberals haven't come out with good social policies of their own - Menzies legislated the beginnings of a national health system with the National Health Act (1953) and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (1960), he also tipping in for aged care and disability support for the first time ever.

It was a different time for the Liberals though, Menzies would be regarded as a socialist with his introduction of public health programs and protection of the working class via the tariff system.
don_dunstan
Now you're really flat out trying to defend the LNP. Took awhile to break through that 'enemy of my enemy (Labor)' thing you played at but there you have it.

I don't believe the LNP would simply abolish Medicare (yes Don). It would be political suicide as Medicare is well entrenched whereas Medibank was not. Remember that one Don? They ensured 10's of billions was poured into a very profitable private system but it's not working anymore. They need (or is it want) to punish people who choose or need to rely on Medicare. It is ideological for both sides.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Happy Brexit Day!

  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Who cares?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Who cares?
Valvegear
They know not what they do but they will soon find out.
  C2 Junior Train Controller

Labours..2 Wong's don't make a White policy'. That's our hangover and it exists today. Didn't Bolt Start Morwell and bulid the power lines over Victoria to connect us to 24hr electricity. Now it's $10,000 for 500 metres of 240volt.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Who cares?
Valvegear
Yet another rare time that I agree with you - this is going to turn out to be the ultimate anti-climax. After all the teeth-gnashing and protests it will turn out in reality to be almost entirely inconsequential.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Who cares?
Yet another rare time that I agree with you - this is going to turn out to be the ultimate anti-climax. After all the teeth-gnashing and protests it will turn out in reality to be almost entirely inconsequential.
don_dunstan
The actual effects or outcomes of BRexit have all been safely locked away for the future with the UK operating as if its a member of the EU in most areas until the end of 2020 and in some cases longer.

While the pound remains low and some industries are still planning to relocate to the EU you know what business thinks of the Brexit.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
Please explain!
Three decades of history and I'll ignore how they abolished Medibank. We have a Medicare system that's stretched to the limit with a heavily subsidised Private System which many cannot afford but have no real choice.
Classic LNP economics, socialise the losses, privatise the profits. Razz
Groundrelay
Medicare is not stretched to the limit and how can that be anyway, it only pays for what its funded.

The Private Health System needs a subsidy because Australian's don't understand what it costs to run the health system. The Medicare levy is a joke in that its only partial funding, the rest being consolidated revenue.  Perhaps spend a few minutes going through the health budgets of the various states and Fed govt to work out what the health system really costs. Hence we have this convoluted funding arrangement.

The Private Health insurance system is also twisted to not support healthy people taking it out and I was one of them. We looked up the cost of private health insurance and then set up a monthly savings plan for a rainy day. The few times I went to hospital I paid private patient in public system. I also demand estimated costs up front by the Dr, something Australian's are not used to doing, OS such as Dubai its mandatory for every procedure, dental etc.

The so called subsidy is basically transferring the cost of private health insurance to pre-tax incomes.

My thoughts on how to resolve
- Medicare levy should be changed so its fully funding the health system. At least this way the cost is not hidden. I previously tried to work it out and its around 20-25%.
- Dental and glasses are funded by Medicare
- Bulk Billing is removed and you may a fee to Visit the Dr. Low income, chronically ill and well-fare people compensated after  many visits.
- For those with private health, they get a discount on medicare levy
- Medicare cards are also your medical history to eliminate Dr shopping and for all the practical reasons its beneficial health wise.

The reason I say remove Bulk Billing because having used one bulk billing Dr in Gladstone, they are screwing the taxpayer. ie to get a comment, "the blood test was negative" for my kid with nothing else required, required me to leave work 3h early, sit in a waiting room for 1hr and spend 30sec in with the Dr. The private practice we normally used would have told me that over the phone. (by chance, I later met the owner of that practice in India, Australian guy who used to work at the smelter, he wasn't a Dr and we had a very heated debate on how he admitted his business was screwing the taxpayers.)
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
Please explain!
Three decades of history and I'll ignore how they abolished Medibank. We have a Medicare system that's stretched to the limit with a heavily subsidised Private System which many cannot afford but have no real choice.
Classic LNP economics, socialise the losses, privatise the profits. Razz
Medicare is not stretched to the limit and how can that be anyway, it only pays for what its funded.
RTT_Rules
The very first line you write is so incredibly WRONG that it renders anything else you write below it unread-able.

The amount of money the Commonwealth is spending on health as a proportion of taxation revenues and GDP is going up all the time and will be 5.5% of gross domestic product in five years - discussed further here.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
RTT’s opening line is correct. Medicare does only pay as budgeted, the medicare levy doesn’t fully fund Medicare, but it was never intended to.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
RTT’s opening line is correct. Medicare does only pay as budgeted, the medicare levy doesn’t fully fund Medicare, but it was never intended to.
Aaron
The general point about it increasing as a liability to Aussie taxpayers in its entirety is correct though - you've got the expensive nature of health treatments plus ageing population. It's like Centrelink, these things are not bottomless pits of money and they'll get more expensive despite the private pensions and healthcare systems supposedly reducing their cost to taxpayers over time.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Medicare is not stretched to the limit and how can that be anyway, it only pays for what its funded.
The very first line you write is so incredibly WRONG that it renders anything else you write below it unread-able.

The amount of money the Commonwealth is spending on health as a proportion of taxation revenues and GDP is going up all the time and will be 5.5% of gross domestic product in five years - discussed further here.
don_dunstan
No its not, the govt dictates the budget for health care funding, this includes what Medicare will fund and how much.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT’s opening line is correct. Medicare does only pay as budgeted, the medicare levy doesn’t fully fund Medicare, but it was never intended to.
The general point about it increasing as a liability to Aussie taxpayers in its entirety is correct though - you've got the expensive nature of health treatments plus ageing population. It's like Centrelink, these things are not bottomless pits of money and they'll get more expensive despite the private pensions and healthcare systems supposedly reducing their cost to taxpayers over time.
don_dunstan
Then why the F did you say I was wrong?

The private school system is a means for parents to contribute more to the funding of their kids education and less from the state as the "subsidy" per child in the private sector is lower than the govt sector. Hence the more kids in the private school system the lower the cost is to the taxpayer.

The health system is exactly the same.

The Superannuation system is exactly the same.

All funding arrangements are all the same basic concept, the more you pay out of your pocket avoiding the govt sector, the less cost to the taxpayer. It doesn't get any simpler!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
RTT’s opening line is correct. Medicare does only pay as budgeted, the medicare levy doesn’t fully fund Medicare, but it was never intended to.
The general point about it increasing as a liability to Aussie taxpayers in its entirety is correct though - you've got the expensive nature of health treatments plus ageing population. It's like Centrelink, these things are not bottomless pits of money and they'll get more expensive despite the private pensions and healthcare systems supposedly reducing their cost to taxpayers over time.
Then why the F did you say I was wrong?

The private school system is a means for parents to contribute more to the funding of their kids education and less from the state as the "subsidy" per child in the private sector is lower than the govt sector. Hence the more kids in the private school system the lower the cost is to the taxpayer.

The health system is exactly the same.

The Superannuation system is exactly the same.

All funding arrangements are all the same basic concept, the more you pay out of your pocket avoiding the govt sector, the less cost to the taxpayer. It doesn't get any simpler!
RTT_Rules
No, even your examples are wrong - Commowealth expenditure on capital grants plus everything else for the 'independent' school sector is MORE than for state schools - ABC. Why do you think they can afford things like "wellness centres" (Geelong Grammar Toorak Campus) and Olympic swimming pools with move-able floors for yoga and basketball practice (Caulfield Grammar)? Rich parents + generous Commowealth funding = schools with insanely good facilities versus state-run and funded schools that are literally falling apart at the seams.

I call bullsh*t on your claims that private patients cost the public system less, that private school kiddies cost the Commonwealth less (they don't, they cost us more) and that superannuation has saved us money in pension costs (it hasn't).

Is there anything you say that is in the vaguest sense right? No wonder I seldom bother to read what you've written.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
don_dunstan
Well if you don't read it, you certainly make comment enough.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The LNP might not be game to abolish Medicare but they do degrade it.
Please explain!
Three decades of history and I'll ignore how they abolished Medibank. We have a Medicare system that's stretched to the limit with a heavily subsidised Private System which many cannot afford but have no real choice.
Classic LNP economics, socialise the losses, privatise the profits. Razz
Medicare is not stretched to the limit and how can that be anyway, it only pays for what its funded.
The very first line you write is so incredibly WRONG that it renders anything else you write below it unread-able.

The amount of money the Commonwealth is spending on health as a proportion of taxation revenues and GDP is going up all the time and will be 5.5% of gross domestic product in five years - discussed further here.
don_dunstan
The government makes decisions on health care funding including Medicare. They came up with the model and tweak it as it suits them.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Well if you don't read it, you certainly make comment enough.
RTT_Rules
It was the very first line that stood out like dog's balls that just begged to be corrected.
The government makes decisions on health care funding including Medicare. They came up with the model and tweak it as it suits them.
Groundrelay
There's multiple upward pressures on the health system not the least of which being the significant advances in the treatment of previously untreatable illnesses and cancers - they cost big $$$. PBS is feeling the pinch too because listing new and advanced drugs is costing the scheme billions. And all this is being compounded by the ageing of our own population and the addition of new entrants via the parental visa - it's the elderly who are costing the scheme the most because that's the point in life where you generally need all these medical interventions to keep you going.

I love Medicare and I think we're extremely lucky to have that system - apart from Europe these schemes don't exist in other parts of the world and we need to be cognesgant of keeping the scheme viable and healthy into the future.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well if you don't read it, you certainly make comment enough.
It was the very first line that stood out like dog's balls that just begged to be corrected.
The government makes decisions on health care funding including Medicare. They came up with the model and tweak it as it suits them.
There's multiple upward pressures on the health system not the least of which being the significant advances in the treatment of previously untreatable illnesses and cancers - they cost big $$$. PBS is feeling the pinch too because listing new and advanced drugs is costing the scheme billions. And all this is being compounded by the ageing of our own population and the addition of new entrants via the parental visa - it's the elderly who are costing the scheme the most because that's the point in life where you generally need all these medical interventions to keep you going.

I love Medicare and I think we're extremely lucky to have that system - apart from Europe these schemes don't exist in other parts of the world and we need to be cognesgant of keeping the scheme viable and healthy into the future.
don_dunstan
...and yet my original statement is still not wrong.

The rising cost of the govt funded medical system will be funded by forcing the healthy and the taxpayer to pay more via increased use of private health care, punitive taxes for those not using the private health insurance/care and increased demand on treasury as has been happening for the last few decades.

I know the lefties like to critise the govt (on either side) as attacking the grey population, but as you point out correctly (rare as it may be) the aging population needs to be funded and to do so will not just fall on the taxpayer, but also by ongoing trimming benefits to the grey population.

But in addition the govt is also doing other measures to fund the future growing grey population which include
- Baby bonus was to increase the reproduction rate and boost the population from mid-late 2020's, which ultimately had limited success and subsequently stopped due to ideology of new govt.

- Both failing that and in conjunction, the govt over the last 12-15 years has focused increasing the tax present and future base via immigration. Same strategy that has been applied for the last 200 years.

- Forcing future grey population off govt funded services and onto self funded services with the govt system regulated to a safety net, ie govt health care, OAP to Private health and SUPER and yes this also includes private education and the introduction and expansion of the original HECS.

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