Most peak time Dandenong trains already run express Caulfield to South Yarra so another track pair won't be beneficial unless the top speed is substantially different.It's middle of the road when it comes to need (1. City to Caulfield, 2. Caulfield to Dandenong, 3. Dandenong to Pakenham), it will come down to TPH and how many you can squeeze between South Yarra and Caulfield, which will eventually become a bottleneck if a new track pair Caulfield-Dandenong is built.
Most peak time Dandenong trains already run express Caulfield to South Yarra so another track pair won't be beneficial unless the top speed is substantially different.Did you look at the map and the amount of peak frequencies each track pair are likely to have?
O get over it.Most peak time Dandenong trains already run express Caulfield to South Yarra so another track pair won't be beneficial unless the top speed is substantially different.Did you look at the map and the amount of peak frequencies each track pair are likely to have?
10 Pakenham + 18 Clyde (and Rowville - which isn't likely to go ahead) + 3 La Trobe Valley = 31 TPH... minus 6-8TPH for a no Rowville scenario, we're still at 23 TPH.... and on one track pair (i.e the Caulfield-South Yarra/MM1 tunnel pair) mixing vline express and SAS Caulfield-Dandenongs? I don't think so - there'll be a need for another pair... and blimey, that's what the map shows.
O get over it.No. It's to allow express trains from the Dandenong to Pakenahm section (and VLine) to run Caulfield-Dandenong, allowing Cranbourne/Clyde to SAS between Caulfield and Dandenong (as well as Freight, and any train that could potentially run Frankston-Dandenong in 50 years time including Port freight and Mornington/Hastings)
All this foam so that 3tph from Gippsland can have an express. Saving what ? 30min?
Come back when those pax are prepared to pay $100+ for the luxury.
When/if Metro stump up for their own express from Dandy, than maybe Vline could tag along.
Don't hold your breath, much bigger issues for Metro in the next 20 years.
If a new port ever happens then that is a discussion for that Business case. Definitely in the probably never ever.O get over it.No. It's to allow express trains from the Dandenong to Pakenahm section (and VLine) to run Caulfield-Dandenong, allowing Cranbourne/Clyde to SAS between Caulfield and Dandenong (as well as Freight, and any train that could potentially run Frankston-Dandenong in 50 years time including Port freight and Mornington/Hastings)
All this foam so that 3tph from Gippsland can have an express. Saving what ? 30min?
Come back when those pax are prepared to pay $100+ for the luxury.
When/if Metro stump up for their own express from Dandy, than maybe Vline could tag along.
Don't hold your breath, much bigger issues for Metro in the next 20 years.
Close but no cigar, it's a play on NDP from 2018 (especially the Chadstone part).I always found it odd that so many lines were put SXS to FSS on that plan, but on twitter something has come up
https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielbowen/44646947024
^ Vlines and Pakenham in the ultimate scenario for the NDP will go back to direct to Flinders St via South Yarra. And ultimately another track pair is added Caulfield-South Yarra... I'm just taking it further west direct to SX and hooking it directly into one of the western Vline lines / metro lines.
Since that plan was published, the SRL has come into being, and Clayton is the point where it'll intersect: it's a logical point to split a large project up in phases.
There won't be any getting over it... the NDPs are the closest thing we have that are distinct non-foamer like. And yeah, there'll be higher priorities, but go back to the map I referenced, it's an ultimate plan/scenario, not necessarily prioritising projects in the short-medium term.If a new port ever happens then that is a discussion for that Business case. Definitely in the probably never ever.O get over it.No. It's to allow express trains from the Dandenong to Pakenahm section (and VLine) to run Caulfield-Dandenong, allowing Cranbourne/Clyde to SAS between Caulfield and Dandenong (as well as Freight, and any train that could potentially run Frankston-Dandenong in 50 years time including Port freight and Mornington/Hastings)
All this foam so that 3tph from Gippsland can have an express. Saving what ? 30min?
Come back when those pax are prepared to pay $100+ for the luxury.
When/if Metro stump up for their own express from Dandy, than maybe Vline could tag along.
Don't hold your breath, much bigger issues for Metro in the next 20 years.
As for building 20km of new tracks, squeezing/smashing stations along the way - its a big ask, and nowhere near the benefits of other more pressing tasks.
Frankily it would be easier, less disruptive and no more expensive to do a tunnel.
Not that I'm inviting foam on that $5-10B boondoggle. Its doable but just as unlikely.
There won't be any getting over it... the NDPs are the closest thing we have that are distinct non-foamer like. And yeah, there'll be higher priorities, but go back to the map I referenced, it's an ultimate plan/scenario, not necessarily prioritising projects in the short-medium term.I don't has as much faith as you in a diagram that has no status, and has as many holes as swiss cheese.
Frankston will run through to Werribee/Laverton/Williamstown with the balance terminating at Flinders St.Interesting blog post from Daniel Bowen today
Cross city changes Frankston Sandringham Werribee Williamstown direct, is this through routing? Dandenong anti clockwise all dayIs written as Rumour
I agree with taking Frankston and Werribee/ Williamstown out of the loop, this will increase capacity for more Dandenong lines and Cragieburn/Sunbury services through the loop, which is beneficial given the latter lines are over crowded and will grow more significantly due to being located at growth areas at the end of their respective lines.Interesting blog post from Daniel Bowen today
Cross city changes Frankston Sandringham Werribee Williamstown direct, is this through routing? Dandenong anti clockwise all dayIs written as Rumour
This not an offical plan, stop pushing it around as if it has been endorsed. It was leaked to Channel 9 and picked up by Daniel Bowen who went through how some of the proposed changes would play out. There is no context to the leaked document, it could have be one of a dozen different scenarios that PTV was developing. All of this was done without the knowledge that SRL was being planned by Development Victoria. Even if it was on the cusp of being released by PTV it is all null and void now thanks to the SRL.Close but no cigar, it's a play on NDP from 2018 (especially the Chadstone part).I know it's too much to ask for a map, but I'm finding it very difficult to follow this plan in text.From what I can tell it's basically quadding from Pakenham in to somewhere around Oakleigh, then building a dogleg tunnel from there to Chadstone, back around to Caulfield (!) and then straight to Southern Cross (!!), to add another track pair from the South East and Gippsland into the city.
Building a 10.2km direct tunnel from Caulfield to the city seems a bit of a stretch at this point, given the business case for doing the same thing from Sunshine on the other side hasn't got up (and there is far more regional travel coming in from the West than the South East).
It is very similar to what Rail Futures called the 'South-East FastLine' really (Page 81 here: https://www.railfutures.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/15329_MRP2050main_FinalPages.pdf). They want it by 2036, which means in reality it may be never/2066.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielbowen/44646947024
^ Vlines and Pakenham in the ultimate scenario for the NDP will go back to direct to Flinders St via South Yarra. And ultimately another track pair is added Caulfield-South Yarra... I'm just taking it further west direct to SX and hooking it directly into one of the western Vline lines / metro lines.
Since that plan was published, the SRL has come into being, and Clayton is the point where it'll intersect: it's a logical point to split a large project up in phases.
I've always been curious about the benefit of the driver change at Flinders Street or wherever where there is no storage yard, as I have with the Tram Hub at Bourke & William Sts. Trains have to run out of yards and run into them at ends of runs, so inevitably some drivers will be signing on at suburban yards, be relieved at FSS and travel back to yard as passenger, or v.v. with the driver relieving another at FSS and run the train in at the end of the shift.You can thank the RTBU for this archaic practice. For a decade now Metro has wanted to break drivers up into Network Groups and move driver change overs to stations outside of the core and to the end of the lines.
I agree with taking Frankston and Werribee/ Williamstown out of the loop, this will increase capacity for more Dandenong lines and Cragieburn/Sunbury services through the loop, which is beneficial given the latter lines are over crowded and will grow more significantly due to being located at growth areas at the end of their respective lines.The Werribee and Frankston lines are also quite busy as well. In fact all the lines you mentioned will get a capacity increase.
Hardly equivalent.As for building 20km of new tracks, squeezing/smashing stations along the way - its a big askIt's been done before. It wasn't that long ago that the line north of Keon Park was single track and ended at Epping.
Sure I appreciate that, of course Werribee and Frankston lines are still busy just to my knowledge not to the same extent as the Pakenham/Cranbourne, Cragieburn or Sunbury lines. Overall the timetable change should reduce delays by minimizing conflict between different lines.I agree with taking Frankston and Werribee/ Williamstown out of the loop, this will increase capacity for more Dandenong lines and Cragieburn/Sunbury services through the loop, which is beneficial given the latter lines are over crowded and will grow more significantly due to being located at growth areas at the end of their respective lines.The Werribee and Frankston lines are also quite busy as well. In fact all the lines you mentioned will get a capacity increase.
They're not that far behind as I understand it.Sure I appreciate that, of course Werribee and Frankston lines are still busy just to my knowledge not to the same extent as the Pakenham/Cranbourne, Cragieburn or Sunbury lines. Overall the timetable change should reduce delays by minimizing conflict between different lines.I agree with taking Frankston and Werribee/ Williamstown out of the loop, this will increase capacity for more Dandenong lines and Cragieburn/Sunbury services through the loop, which is beneficial given the latter lines are over crowded and will grow more significantly due to being located at growth areas at the end of their respective lines.The Werribee and Frankston lines are also quite busy as well. In fact all the lines you mentioned will get a capacity increase.
I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciatedCould be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?
Clifton Hill clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city
And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
Both Burnley and Northern loops will change in the middle of the day still. This will lead to this arrangement throughout the day (as long as I have everything thought out correctly)I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciatedCould be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?
Clifton Hill clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city
And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise