..........................................

Of course the remedy to this is the city loop untangling post MM1 to turn platforms 2 and 3 in the loop to a running pair Nth Melb to Richmond. Hopefully that comes sooner rather than later for operational legibility reasons

Means 2 interchanges between the Frankston - Craigieburn line and the Geelong, Ballarat & Bendigo lines, and possibly the Airport line, unless the RRL is connected at North Melbourne. A bit like Sandringham line users suffer now. The SRL may provide airport access for Craigieburn users.

..........................................

Of course the remedy to this is the city loop untangling post MM1 to turn platforms 2 and 3 in the loop to a running pair Nth Melb to Richmond. Hopefully that comes sooner rather than later for operational legibility reasons

Means 2 interchanges between the Frankston - Craigieburn line and the Geelong, Ballarat & Bendigo lines, and possibly the Airport line, unless the RRL is connected at North Melbourne. A bit like Sandringham line users suffer now. The SRL may provide airport access for Craigieburn users.

The City Loop reconfiguration (which seems to have dropped off as a project altogether, given the idea was to use the increase in capacity from Metro I as a cover to get it done) would mean Frankston-Craigieburn would become a through line using what are currently the Northern and Caulfield Loops, while Upfield and Sandringham (or Glen Waverley, depending on the stage of the Network Plan) would use the viaduct tracks as a complementary loop on the other side.

I am not sure how much real benefit you get from a single transfer journey - if all lines are running to a 5-10 minute frequency, average journey times overall will come down. Even with a City Loop reconfiguration you get most lines at Flinders St, or Melbourne Central.

Someone from Frankston Line for say Bendigo Could change at Caulfield for Metro Tunnel, then Footscray for Bendigo Line. Currently they have a train that likely stops all stations to Flinders St, then has no guarantee of going around the viaduct to Southern Cross to they may have a 3+ stage journey anyway.

Means 2 interchanges between the Frankston - Craigieburn line and the Geelong, Ballarat & Bendigo lines, and possibly the Airport line, unless the RRL is connected at North Melbourne. A bit like Sandringham line users suffer now. The SRL may provide airport access for Craigieburn users.

2 interchanges doesn't really matter if they happen at Melb Central and Spencer St (or Caulfield and Footscray). That's high frequency stuff.

I'd agree it would be bonkers if you had to interchange at Hastings and Corio, but that's not the case here.

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

Hi Doyle, it was not your post I was referring to.

I would expect the Burnley Loop will be fixed to avoid Caulfield Line Users Jumping from Parliament to Richmond in the PM Peak. That only leaves the Northern Loop doing the 12noon shuffle. I suspect that it will also be run in a fixed direction all day. Seems silly to have one group switching a 12. Switching at all has been silly since Jolimont Yard was removed over 30 years ago.

Lockie

That was my thinking, all 4 tubes and groups should be in a fixed direction all day 2 clockwise 2 anticlockwise

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

Hi Doyle, it was not your post I was referring to.

I would expect the Burnley Loop will be fixed to avoid Caulfield Line Users Jumping from Parliament to Richmond in the PM Peak. That only leaves the Northern Loop doing the 12noon shuffle. I suspect that it will also be run in a fixed direction all day. Seems silly to have one group switching a 12. Switching at all has been silly since Jolimont Yard was removed over 30 years ago.

Lockie

I don't think that's likely to happen given that Frankston Line users can transfer at Southern Cross. Passengers at Parliament can even choose to go to Flinders St instead (which may even be quicker than transferring at Richmond).

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

Hi Doyle, it was not your post I was referring to.

I would expect the Burnley Loop will be fixed to avoid Caulfield Line Users Jumping from Parliament to Richmond in the PM Peak. That only leaves the Northern Loop doing the 12noon shuffle. I suspect that it will also be run in a fixed direction all day. Seems silly to have one group switching a 12. Switching at all has been silly since Jolimont Yard was removed over 30 years ago.

Lockie

I don't think that's likely to happen given that Frankston Line users can transfer at Southern Cross. Passengers at Parliament can even choose to go to Flinders St instead (which may even be quicker than transferring at Richmond).

You don't think what is likely?

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

Hi Doyle, it was not your post I was referring to.

I would expect the Burnley Loop will be fixed to avoid Caulfield Line Users Jumping from Parliament to Richmond in the PM Peak. That only leaves the Northern Loop doing the 12noon shuffle. I suspect that it will also be run in a fixed direction all day. Seems silly to have one group switching a 12. Switching at all has been silly since Jolimont Yard was removed over 30 years ago.

Lockie

I don't think that's likely to happen given that Frankston Line users can transfer at Southern Cross. Passengers at Parliament can even choose to go to Flinders St instead (which may even be quicker than transferring at Richmond).

You don't think what is likely?

Is there more demand for a direct service from Parliament to Flinders Street, or a direct service from Flinders Street to Parliament?

That should answer the question about which way the Northern Group should run in the City Loop if you wanted to have it run one-way 24/7 and scrap the midday change in direction.

"CricketBall" eh? I don't want to know you; you broke my nose twice!

@Lockie91I'm not quite sure about the future loop arrangements if someone could help me out would be much appreciated

This is how I'm seeing it, Is this right?

Clifton Hill  clockwise (current)
Caulfied clockwise
Northern anticlockwise
Burnley anticlockwise
And Cross city

And will Flagstaff, Melbourne Central and Parliament platforms be
1 & 3 clockwise
2 & 4 anticlockwise
doyle


Could be wrong but I wouldn't expect any change to the Northern & Burnley groups which would continue to change direction in the middle of the day on weekdays as they do now.
Agree (1)  Disagree (1)  

I noticed that you disagree with this comment what exactly did you disagree with

Hi Doyle, it was not your post I was referring to.

I would expect the Burnley Loop will be fixed to avoid Caulfield Line Users Jumping from Parliament to Richmond in the PM Peak. That only leaves the Northern Loop doing the 12noon shuffle. I suspect that it will also be run in a fixed direction all day. Seems silly to have one group switching a 12. Switching at all has been silly since Jolimont Yard was removed over 30 years ago.

Lockie

I don't think that's likely to happen given that Frankston Line users can transfer at Southern Cross. Passengers at Parliament can even choose to go to Flinders St instead (which may even be quicker than transferring at Richmond).

You don't think what is likely?

I think i may have misread your post now but I was referring to all Caulfield group passengers using Burnley trains to get to Richmond.

I think ideally the Northern, Clifton Hill and Burnley Groups should run clockwise all the time, with Caulfield running anti clockwise. This simplifies train operations for passengers and Metro, to allow more frequent services.

This would allow passengers at all times of the day to complete quick one seat journeys between popular stations, which is not always possible at all times of the day. For example travelling from Richmond to Parliament, Flagstaff/Melbourne Central/Parliament to Southern Cross and Parliament to Flinders Street. Of course transfers between services will be required still, but with frequent services this will not be much of an issue (bearing in mind, many people have to transfer between services currently anyway).

In regards to the mentioned potential issue of Caulfield Group and Sandingham line passengers travelling on Burnley line services from loop stations to Richmond in the afternoon/evening peak to create a 'shortcut' to their services going the long way around the loop, this could be an issue. However I would argue post Covid travelling numbers are likely to be reduced in peak times, e.g Perth when I last checked which has far fewer restrictions than us has about 70% of pre-Covid public transport patronage, and I would expect something similar in Melbourne once we have eased restrictions further. My point being there should be more capacity on Burnley group trains to accommodate Caulfield Group/Sandringham passengers making this 'shortcut.'

Also if the northern group runs clockwise all the time, than some of these passengers who board at loop stations may travel instead to Flinders Street and interchange there, balancing out crowd numbers.

Or you could express Burnley down PM trains through Richmond, (which Metro did flag relatively recently) though I don't think this will be popular and Richmond is a very popular important interchange station with lots of offices nearby, so I don't like this idea.

I reckon that the Northern Group should be left the way it is.

Simply because the Northern Group is the only group that provides a direct connection between Flinders Street and Parliament and vice-versa.

So if you leave it the way it is, then you provide people with a Parliament to Flinders Street direct service on weekday AM and then a Flinders Street to Parliament direct service on weekday PM.

Seems like the fairest solution IMO.

Or you can make it anti-clockwise all day (so that people who have just missed a Burnley or Clifton Hill train at FSS can catch a Nothern train and catch up with the trains they want at Paliament) then avail a three-car train doing City Circle all day.

When I lived there I got sick to death of trying to remember what direction the various City Loop lines were running at different times of the day - before 1pm? After 1pm? Weekends/week-days? Having consistent running directions at all hours is a good move especially with the Swanston Metro coming on line in a few years.

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

How long would it take to build and open new tunnel portals for through running Frankston-Craigieburn? I'd think it's a 3 year project, so needs to start ASAP.

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

I would be surprised by stage 2.

This would require digging new tunnels from around Flagstaff to the surface at North Melbourne, and from Parliament all the way under what was the Jolimont railyards to at least Richmond Junction, if not further.

The North Melbourne ramp would be fun - it would have to fall from the level of the Caulfield loop (above the current North Melbourne loop) to run below Dudley St while probably crossing over the existing Northern Loop tunnel. It's also not exactly clear where you'd put a new ramp at Richmond - there's not a lot of room with the Tennis Centre and the tram line.

I'm sure you could do it, but I don't think the project would be simple or quick.

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

How long would it take to build and open new tunnel portals for through running Frankston-Craigieburn? I'd think it's a 3 year project, so needs to start ASAP.

No not as complex as made out. And a lot of the work can be pre-staged so that the actual shutdown swap over bit would be 6 months 0r so. Remember with this next 12/20 tt change remaining few Frankstons all come out of Caulfield Loop and once Metro 1 opens all the Dandenong/pakenham/Cranbournes come out of loop.  For the 6 - 7 month changeover Craigieburn/Upfield turn back at Southern cross & Flinders Street.

With the Caulfield loop a new ramp is built from the foot of Latrobe Street coming up to the alignment of new platform - 7 at North Melbourne.  With the Northern Loop a new ramp is built from Spring/Flinders St under Jolimont Yards to Up side Richmond Station.  The existing ramps no longer used are filled in .

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

How long would it take to build and open new tunnel portals for through running Frankston-Craigieburn? I'd think it's a 3 year project, so needs to start ASAP.

No not as complex as made out. And a lot of the work can be pre-staged so that the actual shutdown swap over bit would be 6 months 0r so. Remember with this next 12/20 tt change remaining few Frankstons all come out of Caulfield Loop and once Metro 1 opens all the Dandenong/pakenham/Cranbournes come out of loop.  For the 6 - 7 month changeover Craigieburn/Upfield turn back at Southern cross & Flinders Street.

With the Caulfield loop a new ramp is built from the foot of Latrobe Street coming up to the alignment of new platform - 7 at North Melbourne.  With the Northern Loop a new ramp is built from Spring/Flinders St under Jolimont Yards to Up side Richmond Station.  The existing ramps no longer used are filled in .

Kind of simple when you think about it.

There are two portals at North Melbourne. Come MM1 Day 1, the portal leading to Platform 3 & 4 is no longer going to be used. This is perfect for staging work as road headers could start digging in the old portal while Craigieburn services still use the other portal.

Both alterations are only 700m tunnels which can be dug by road headers. Shut down of the loop for six - nine months and its done.

With Dandenong & Sunbury Services in Metro 1 could you not through route Frankston & Craigieburn over the viaduct during the loop shut down ? Then giving the capacity back to Burnley once complete.

If a project was announced by 2022, it would be doable shortly after MM1 opens.

Lockie

With the Caulfield loop a new ramp is built from the foot of Latrobe Street coming up to the alignment of new platform - 7 at North Melbourne.  With the Northern Loop a new ramp is built from Spring/Flinders St under Jolimont Yards to Up side Richmond Station.  The existing ramps no longer used are filled in .

No need to fill them in unless you plan to use the space on top - even then you could probably get away with covering them up.

If a project was announced by 2022, it would be doable shortly after MM1 opens.

Could even be done before or in line with MM1 opening.

There is a logic and apparently  a long term plan to all of this .

- First up at next tt change remaining Frankstons out of loop short term, and Caulfield Loop runs ant-clockwise all day, on top Cligton Hill loop clockwise at all times as now,. (Signalling is set up in CAD Loop to handle this and new trains etc.)

- Then Metro 1 opens and 1. City Loop Re-configuration takes place  viz:  Caul;field & Northern Loops get straightened out by new access ramps at  Cremorne and North Melbourne with plat 6 Nth Melb becomes island plats 6/7. This creates a North / South track pair Craigieburn - Essendon - Flagstaff - Melbourne Central - Parliament - Richmond - South Yarra - Caulfield - Frankston. At that time Burnley Loop becomes anti-clockwise all day.  PLUS the big benefit of City Loop Re-Configuration available free tracks then allow for a new  cross city track pair on the surface -   Roxburgh Park - Upfield - Southern Cross - Flinders Street - Burnley - Glen Waverley .

Huge gain in peak capacity like 40,000 pax per peak hour simply by re-configuring the existing Caulfield and Northern Loops.  BUT really only one time to do it immediately on the heels of Metro 1 opening once the Dandenong/Pakenham/Cranbourne come out of Caulfield Loop onto Metro-1.

Seems that there are lots of ideas how to do a re-config.

What am I missing. Has anybody actually put a case for "why ???"

What is the purpose of "straighten out the loop" ?
It guarantees that nobody on the Frankston or Craigeburn lines can stop at FSS or SCS.
EDIT: also pax on Dandenong line, post MM1, cannot stop at SCS(from swap at Caulfield)

So too bad for a big chunk of pax, but good news to the handful (if any) that need to get from Frankston(line) to Craigeburn(line).
Where the hell are those 40,000 supposed to go?

cheers
John

Seems that there are lots of ideas how to do a re-config.

What am I missing. Has anybody actually put a case for "why ???"

What is the purpose of "straighten out the loop" ?
It guarantees that nobody on the Frankston or Craigeburn lines can stop at FSS or SCS.
EDIT: also pax on Dandenong line, post MM1, cannot stop at SCS(from swap at Caulfield)

So too bad for a big chunk of pax, but good news to the handful (if any) that need to get from Frankston(line) to Craigeburn(line).
Where the hell are those 40,000 supposed to go?

cheers
John

The point is that instead of having two lines on each side of the city joining and creating a bottle neck (which reduces paths into the City), you join lines at the City to create through-routes that maintains capacity.

So the thee through-routed pairs become:

Sandringham - Newport
Burnley Local to Upfield
Frankston to Craigieburn

Clifton Loop and Burnley Loop remain, so one of the pairs above goes via the loop.
Sandringham - Newport makes most sense given F-C could sustain HCMTs

Then at Newport, you can separate that into two, Newport Local (Williamstown and Point Cook via Altona) and Newport Express (Werribee/WV and Geelong), with Newport Local going as above and Newport Express going to Clifton Hill via Metro 2 connecting to the Mernda Line.

Then you look at having Burnley Local become full time Glen Waverley with Burnley Express being converted into Box Hill Local, with a Box Hill Express (four tracks Burnley to Box Hill, Local to Box Hill/Alamein/Oakleigh). The Box Hill Express would tunnel from Burnley to create Metro 3, another cross city route, probably to Sunshine to take some pressure of all the lines running through Metro 1 (Airport, Sunbury, Melton, WV)

All of this is to say that through-routing train lines is the most efficient for maximising peak capacity. At 2am it's a waste of money, but between 7a and 10a, 4p and 7p, we need every train we can get going through the core. We have ample track space except for the few single track sections, but in the core we need each sector to have dedicated tracks the whole way through.

Seems that there are lots of ideas how to do a re-config.

What am I missing. Has anybody actually put a case for "why ???"

What is the purpose of "straighten out the loop" ?
It guarantees that nobody on the Frankston or Craigeburn lines can stop at FSS or SCS.
EDIT: also pax on Dandenong line, post MM1, cannot stop at SCS(from swap at Caulfield)

So too bad for a big chunk of pax, but good news to the handful (if any) that need to get from Frankston(line) to Craigeburn(line).
Where the hell are those 40,000 supposed to go?

cheers
John

The point is that instead of having two lines on each side of the city joining and creating a bottle neck (which reduces paths into the City), you join lines at the City to create through-routes that maintains capacity.

So the thee through-routed pairs become:

Sandringham - Newport
Burnley Local to Upfield
Frankston to Craigieburn

Clifton Loop and Burnley Loop remain, so one of the pairs above goes via the loop.
Sandringham - Newport makes most sense given F-C could sustain HCMTs

Then at Newport, you can separate that into two, Newport Local (Williamstown and Point Cook via Altona) and Newport Express (Werribee/WV and Geelong), with Newport Local going as above and Newport Express going to Clifton Hill via Metro 2 connecting to the Mernda Line.

Then you look at having Burnley Local become full time Glen Waverley with Burnley Express being converted into Box Hill Local, with a Box Hill Express (four tracks Burnley to Box Hill, Local to Box Hill/Alamein/Oakleigh). The Box Hill Express would tunnel from Burnley to create Metro 3, another cross city route, probably to Sunshine to take some pressure of all the lines running through Metro 1 (Airport, Sunbury, Melton, WV)

All of this is to say that through-routing train lines is the most efficient for maximising peak capacity. At 2am it's a waste of money, but between 7a and 10a, 4p and 7p, we need every train we can get going through the core. We have ample track space except for the few single track sections, but in the core we need each sector to have dedicated tracks the whole way through.

so that all means the end game is Quad to Box Hill, MM2, MM3 - yeah that's gunna happen NOT.

In essence the two tunnels (Caulfield and Northern) are going to be exclusive use of Craigeburn and Frankston.

So again, WHY must you have a through-route.
Those existing loops (post MM1) can already service in & out on fully dedicated track, which HCS will bring up to near 30tph.
The only bottleneck being if Metro continue with the practice of parking at FSS, instead of treating it like any normal through station.

# 4 loops as is: Clifton, Ringwood, Craigeburn, Frankston. Probably ending the mid-day reverse shuffle.
# 2 biggies on MM1: Dandenong, Sunbury
# the rest through FSS & SCS, combining Newport & Upfield run to the preferred opposite of Sandringham or Glen Waverley .

On the viaduct that means 4+0+4 tracks maximum. Only 6 atm.
Bit of a squeeze using only 2 for "the rest". It's where a recently mentioned extra pair on the viaduct starts to make more sense than spagetti tunnels.

end foam?
cheers
John