The Aussie politics thread -

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The slow uptake of EV's in Australia is basically driven by one thing, lack of suitable models.
RTT_Rules
No, it's driven by the fact that they're twice as expensive as the average ICE car - and we have long distances that are not suited to electric cars.

Oh, and they're crap.

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  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
The slow uptake of EV's in Australia is basically driven by one thing, lack of suitable models.
Oh, and they're crap.
don_dunstan

Surely they couldn't be any worse than your average bogan Commodore or Falcon. There's good cars and bad cars of all descriptions, throwing blanket statements on them does nothing.

For what it's worth, the average Tesla Model 3 looks like a damn nice car to drive.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The slow uptake of EV's in Australia is basically driven by one thing, lack of suitable models.
Oh, and they're crap.

Surely they couldn't be any worse than your average bogan Commodore or Falcon. There's good cars and bad cars of all descriptions, throwing blanket statements on them does nothing.

For what it's worth, the average Tesla Model 3 looks like a damn nice car to drive.
Greensleeves
Range is dreadful unless (for example with Tesla) you buy the top spec Model 3, which including on-roads is very close to the hundred grand mark. You have to pay a very big premium if you want it to match the range and efficiency of an internal combustion car for long trips.

Depreciation is much worse than ICE cars partly because potential secondhand buyers are frightened off over the cost of replacement batteries - BMW's i3 is the worst offender. Retail on the i3 is $73,000 in Australia but secondhand ones can be bought for around $25,000 or less. Might also be because the i3 had an even-worse range than the Tesla model 3 and a lot of bugs being the first generation all-electric BMW.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
The slow uptake of EV's in Australia is basically driven by one thing, lack of suitable models.
Oh, and they're crap.

Surely they couldn't be any worse than your average bogan Commodore or Falcon. There's good cars and bad cars of all descriptions, throwing blanket statements on them does nothing.

For what it's worth, the average Tesla Model 3 looks like a damn nice car to drive.
Range is dreadful unless (for example with Tesla) you buy the top spec Model 3, which including on-roads is very close to the hundred grand mark. You have to pay a very big premium if you want it to match the range and efficiency of an internal combustion car for long trips.

Depreciation is much worse than ICE cars partly because potential secondhand buyers are frightened off over the cost of replacement batteries - BMW's i3 is the worst offender. Retail on the i3 is $73,000 in Australia but secondhand ones can be bought for around $25,000 or less. Might also be because the i3 had an even-worse range than the Tesla model 3 and a lot of bugs being the first generation all-electric BMW.
don_dunstan
Liar.

According to Carsales the cheapest i3 on the market at the moment is $35k, which is 40% more than $25k:

BMW i3 cars for sale in Australia - carsales.com.au

Actually, a 40% differential between reality and your imagination is pretty close for you.

$35k will buy you a 2014 model. That means it is 7 years old. Buying one from that year for 50% of its original value, despite its age, shows that it has retained value better than a lot of other cars out there, EV or not.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Range is dreadful unless (for example with Tesla) you buy the top spec Model 3, which including on-roads is very close to the hundred grand mark. You have to pay a very big premium if you want it to match the range and efficiency of an internal combustion car for long trips.

Depreciation is much worse than ICE cars partly because potential secondhand buyers are frightened off over the cost of replacement batteries - BMW's i3 is the worst offender. Retail on the i3 is $73,000 in Australia but secondhand ones can be bought for around $25,000 or less. Might also be because the i3 had an even-worse range than the Tesla model 3 and a lot of bugs being the first generation all-electric BMW.
Liar.

According to Carsales the cheapest i3 on the market at the moment is $35k, which is 40% more than $25k:

BMW i3 cars for sale in Australia - carsales.com.au

Actually, a 40% differential between reality and your imagination is pretty close for you.

$35k will buy you a 2014 model. That means it is 7 years old. Buying one from that year for 50% of its original value, despite its age, shows that it has retained value better than a lot of other cars out there, EV or not.
DirtyBallast
You haven't looked hard enough have you, child. There's i3's out there that are pretty much ready to be prawn boat anchors they're that useless, on the edge of their inbuilt obsolescence already after only half a decade on the roads. Their owners know it, the secondhand market knows it. Like all electric cars, they're just landfill waiting for a place to happen - meanwhile there's still internal combustion cars 20-30 years old chugging away on our roads showing no signs of needing new power cells.

Again, welcome back. Yet another one who couldn't stay away from my luminous intellectual presence here on this board.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Range is dreadful unless (for example with Tesla) you buy the top spec Model 3, which including on-roads is very close to the hundred grand mark. You have to pay a very big premium if you want it to match the range and efficiency of an internal combustion car for long trips.

Depreciation is much worse than ICE cars partly because potential secondhand buyers are frightened off over the cost of replacement batteries - BMW's i3 is the worst offender. Retail on the i3 is $73,000 in Australia but secondhand ones can be bought for around $25,000 or less. Might also be because the i3 had an even-worse range than the Tesla model 3 and a lot of bugs being the first generation all-electric BMW.
Liar.

According to Carsales the cheapest i3 on the market at the moment is $35k, which is 40% more than $25k:

BMW i3 cars for sale in Australia - carsales.com.au

Actually, a 40% differential between reality and your imagination is pretty close for you.

$35k will buy you a 2014 model. That means it is 7 years old. Buying one from that year for 50% of its original value, despite its age, shows that it has retained value better than a lot of other cars out there, EV or not.
You haven't looked hard enough have you, child. There's i3's out there that are pretty much ready to be prawn boat anchors they're that useless, on the edge of their inbuilt obsolescence already after only half a decade on the roads. Their owners know it, the secondhand market knows it. Like all electric cars, they're just landfill waiting for a place to happen - meanwhile there's still internal combustion cars 20-30 years old chugging away on our roads showing no signs of needing new power cells.

Again, welcome back. Yet another one who couldn't stay away from my luminous intellectual presence here on this board.
don_dunstan
So, post a link to prove you can buy one for $25k. Or are you lying/exaggerating?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
You haven't looked hard enough have you, child. There's i3's out there that are pretty much ready to be prawn boat anchors they're that useless, on the edge of their inbuilt obsolescence already after only half a decade on the roads. Their owners know it, the secondhand market knows it. Like all electric cars, they're just landfill waiting for a place to happen - meanwhile there's still internal combustion cars 20-30 years old chugging away on our roads showing no signs of needing new power cells.

Again, welcome back. Yet another one who couldn't stay away from my luminous intellectual presence here on this board.
So, post a link to prove you can buy one for $25k. Or are you lying/exaggerating?
DirtyBallast
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
You haven't looked hard enough have you, child. There's i3's out there that are pretty much ready to be prawn boat anchors they're that useless, on the edge of their inbuilt obsolescence already after only half a decade on the roads. Their owners know it, the secondhand market knows it. Like all electric cars, they're just landfill waiting for a place to happen - meanwhile there's still internal combustion cars 20-30 years old chugging away on our roads showing no signs of needing new power cells.

Again, welcome back. Yet another one who couldn't stay away from my luminous intellectual presence here on this board.
So, post a link to prove you can buy one for $25k. Or are you lying/exaggerating?
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
don_dunstan
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Fact Check on the many BS comments on EV's

i3 are boat anchors - After checking redbook.com.au, the 5 year old 2016 i3's and similar BMW 1 series have similar purchase and depreciation costs.

Verdict: incorrect

EV's depreciate faster than ICE - After checking in the past comparing early model Model S's with similar standard ICE models of other manufacturers, the Model S was actually holding its price better.

Some applies to hybrid as there is no evidence that hybrids depreciate faster

Verdict: incorrect

EV's are not suited to Australia larger distances - Most people would be lucky to drive all their cars in their house more than 300km from their home for the cars entire ownership. Moral of the story, most people don't buy an BMW 1 series if they plan to drive to Uluru. Many families have the family usually 4x4 or SUV that is used for the family driving holiday, pull the boat, camper trailer etc. However the other car is lucky to leave the city or town its based in.

As far as long distance travel, if yo live between the Sunshine coast and Adelaide, there is a large and growing network of fast chargers that would suit most driving.

While EV's are not available in all possible types and brands of cars, the demand for EV's will be subdued, however this will change dramatically by 2025.

Verdict: Mostly incorrect

fact that they're twice as expensive as the average ICE car - Nearly all EV cars currently on the market are if you ignore the fuel source are luxury cars or at least higher end models. Yes EV technology is currently more expensive, but not double as incorrectly stated by the OP. Historically the car industry always roles new technology out in the top end models and brands and as the technology gets cheaper with time, or driven by either market of govt forces its rolled out into lower cost brands and models. AC, EFi, 5 and 6 speed gear boxes, leather seats, parking sensors, cruise control, electric seats etc to name a few.

Battery technology is getting cheaper and with higher density over time. Only need to look at the development of the Model S battery which is the first mainstream model to be on the market for 10 years straight,

Also of interest that when Tesla introduced the Model S the battery Warranty was a fraction of today and they had plans battery exchange. Over time the warranty was progressively extended and the battery exchange program cancelled as not needed.

Verdict: Mostly incorrect

meanwhile there's still internal combustion cars 20-30 years old chugging away on our roads - Yes there are ancient cars on the road in Australia just like anything else. However the average age of cars in Australia is 10years, so 20-30 year old cars are very much the minority.

Even ignoring EV, such cars usually are either classics or older cars that have yet to be written off due to mis-adventure or major failure usually due to low km and careful drivers, but otherwise mechanically/body ok but with little or no resale value.  

Back to EV's there is no evidence to state that should an EV be operated in similar conditions that they cannot operate for 20-30 years as the battery's killer is cycles and how the battery was charged and discharged, not time.

Verdict: Mostly incorrect
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
DirtyBallast
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
don_dunstan
OK then, show the link to someone else to prove that you can buy an i3 for $25k. Or remain a liar.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
OK then, show the link to someone else to prove that you can buy an i3 for $25k. Or remain a liar.
DirtyBallast
You're an adult (I assume). Instead of trying to play a childish game of 'GOTCHA' which you seem to enjoy so much why not try putting in some meaningful dialogue into the conversation? Construct an argument - defend your position - and so on. I know that it's probably really hard for someone like you but give it a go.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Construct an argument - defend your position - and so on.
"don_dunstan"
This thought was brought to you by a man with a huge track record of point blank refusal to put up evidence when asked.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
OK then, show the link to someone else to prove that you can buy an i3 for $25k. Or remain a liar.
DirtyBallast
I'm going to agree with Don on yes there was an i3 for $25k. The i3 was up for wrecking after a guy in a 25 year old Falcon from Adelaide lost control and ran into it.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Construct an argument - defend your position - and so on.
This thought was brought to you by a man with a huge track record of point blank refusal to put up evidence when asked.
Valvegear
Okay, well let's go back a few months ago when you were making that demand on me - that I should present evidence of what I was talking about. In that case what you wanted evidence that wanting to be another gender (or 'transitioning' to another gender) was in fact a mental illness all on its own and not just something that could be fixed by hormones/surgery.

Some thirty or forty years ago there was absolutely no debate in psychological circles that wanting to be another gender was a mental illness. It actually had its own name - 'gender identity dysphoria'. People who expressed that desire were treated as though they were crazy and were given psychiatric and psychological treatments to try and help them accept the gender that they were born as.

Fast forward to the present day and you'd be in all sorts of trouble if you labelled someone who was 'gender confused' as being in any way mentally ill; there's a huge push to normalise people who feel that they were born into the wrong gender identity as if they have an intrinsic right to be the gender that they want to be and not the one that they were born with. Now as I recall you were asking me to present you with direct evidence that people who were gender identity confused as mentally-ill.

Obviously, that statement in itself is extremely simplistic and it doesn't encapsulate the whole range of people who are in that category - some of whom will obviously be made 'whole' by 'transitioning' into their preferred gender identity - and some of whom are not going to be 'cured' by doing that. Some of that cohort are just plain nuts and part of their pathology is presenting with that 'gender identity dysphoria'.

All that debate aside, your asking me to present an argument that gender identity issues are linked to mental illness is a massive task - like trying to explain the nature of existence in one paragraph. And there's no definitive answer - none at all. Its one of those things that can't be encapsulated easily and there's (obviously) going to be a lot of evidence either contrary or supporting either one of those positions. That's not counting the fact that what is considered normal and what is considered pathological has changed with time and (dare I say) fashion.

Are you beginning to get where I'm coming from? I can't possibly provide all the answers, all the evidence, all the research - to every single topic that we discuss here. And I certainly can't do that without offending some people - which I seem to have an easy ability to do.

Do your own research, come up with your own answers and present them here for discussion (preferably with links but I don't care if you link or not). That's the answer.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Welcome to the " Damn superior aren't you" club Dirty Ballast.

That's the comment you'll receive when the representative from SA has no more...has scraped the bottom of the barrel, has presented any and all conspiracy theories that he can offer on a particular topic.

Congratulations ????

Mike.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Okay, well let's go back a few months ago when you were making that demand on me - that I should present evidence of what I was talking about.
"don_dunstan"
No. Don. The one single example you want to quote just won't cut it.
Let's go back for the last few years and count the number of times you have refused to supply evidence in accordance with your standard method of, "I say this is a fact, but I have made no attempt to provide evidence to demonstrate it. Now it's up to you to look up some evidence if you want to prove me wrong, even though I didn't supply any in the first place".
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Welcome to the " Damn superior aren't you" club Dirty Ballast.

That's the comment you'll receive when the representative from SA has no more...has scraped the bottom of the barrel, has presented any and all conspiracy theories that he can offer on a particular topic.

Congratulations ????

Mike.
The Vinelander
Thanks mate.

Don thinks that he's playing us. Write something completely outlandish over and over again just to provoke responses for his titillation. Imagine how much time he spends trying to get all those cum stains out of his pants!

He's too stupid to realise that the rest of us get far more entertainment out of watching him implode.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Welcome to the " Damn superior aren't you" club Dirty Ballast.

That's the comment you'll receive when the representative from SA has no more...has scraped the bottom of the barrel, has presented any and all conspiracy theories that he can offer on a particular topic.

Congratulations ????

Mike.
Thanks mate.

Don thinks that he's playing us. Write something completely outlandish over and over again just to provoke responses for his titillation. Imagine how much time he spends trying to get all those cum stains out of his pants!

He's too stupid to realise that the rest of us get far more entertainment out of watching him implode.
DirtyBallast
IIRC, the last time I poked a barb at DD he responded with don’t you start and I haven’t.
Either have a pissing contest or deprive them oxygen.
Taking option B.

Mick.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Welcome to the " Damn superior aren't you" club Dirty Ballast.

That's the comment you'll receive when the representative from SA has no more...has scraped the bottom of the barrel, has presented any and all conspiracy theories that he can offer on a particular topic.

Congratulations ????

Mike.
Thanks mate.

Don thinks that he's playing us. Write something completely outlandish over and over again just to provoke responses for his titillation. Imagine how much time he spends trying to get all those cum stains out of his pants!

He's too stupid to realise that the rest of us get far more entertainment out of watching him implode.
DirtyBallast
The Donster has threatened to report me to the Moderators. I take absolutely no notice of course. Just to watch him lose his $hit whilst maintaining that he loves to wind us up is just so entertaining. I am from England and we just love to take the pi$$.


Michael
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Media reporting a forth woman has come forth with allegations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-22/fourth-woman-accuses-staffer-in-brittany-higgins-case/13178190
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Media reporting a forth woman has come forth with allegations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-22/fourth-woman-accuses-staffer-in-brittany-higgins-case/13178190
bevans
Parliament House will soon need a waiting room to accommodate the victims of this one particular fellow. If this scandal doesn't bring down Scomo then nothing will. On the other hand a man not fit to hold public office has ambitions to become the Nationals leader once again. And yet those Neanderthals up New England way still vote for him.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Media reporting a forth woman has come forth with allegations.
bevans
No, the media is reporting a fourth woman has come forth with allegations. Wink
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
OK then, show the link to someone else to prove that you can buy an i3 for $25k. Or remain a liar.
I'm going to agree with Don on yes there was an i3 for $25k. The i3 was up for wrecking after a guy in a 25 year old Falcon from Adelaide lost control and ran into it.
RTT_Rules
LOL, totes hilarious, RTT_Rules. And I didn't read any of your 'RTT_Rules ABC Fact Checker' posts on the renewable energy thread. The reason is that you confuse opinion with fact and you always refuse to link your 'facts'.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I only do links for people who are polite and respectful.
I invited you to prove that an i3 could be bought for $25k, but instead you proved what the rest of us know - that you are a liar.
And again, I only show links to people with a modicum of politeness. You are not in that category.

And anyway, how do you know that I didn't find an i3 for $25,000? They've been on the market for several years now, they depreciate faster than normal cars.

Damn superior aren't you.
OK then, show the link to someone else to prove that you can buy an i3 for $25k. Or remain a liar.
DirtyBallast
Okay I was wrong - the cheapest I could find a second-hand i3 was $35,000 for one in QLD.

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