Spelling and punctuation

 
  John of Melbourne The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Melbourne suburbs
Responding to some comments in the Victoria->B74 topic that were objected to as being off-topic...  Rolling Eyes

Come on guys, lighten up. I'm sure that you've both made spelling, grammer & punctuation mistakes in ure lifes...
"mars"
Not to the extent of many of the messages here, I haven't.

You two...are you english teachers? if so i can understand your buzz about speeling and grammer. If not get a life...havent you heard of "chat english"?
"Andy711549"
Spelling and grammar are for everyone, not just English teachers.  (Who do you think the English teachers teach?).  No, I haven't heard of "chat english".  Is that merely a description of lousy English or an attempt to legitimise lousy English by giving it a name?

Yes...but the reader has to be able to figure out what the heck is being said!!!
"ParkesHub"
Exactly!

Er, no actually, not exactly.  See my next comment.

parkes if you couldnt figure out what was meant than your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum
"Andy711549"
99% of the time I can figure out what is being said.  But I shouldn't have to figure it out!  I should be able to just read it and understand it without the extra effort of trying to figure it out.

And by the way, the "60+" comment was not very nice with regard to older people, many of whom are probably a lot smarter - and wiser - than you (and I'm not in that age category, by the way).

From my school days (and there are all sorts of variations):
    Which one is the idiot?  Punctuation does make a difference.

    Sponsored advertisement

      Nick Moss Station Master

    Location: Brisbane, QLD
    John - actually, I reckon that last one should read: "The teacher", said the student, "is an idiot" Razz

    He does have a point though - it isn't hard to use grammar, and it saves on a lot misunderstanding further down the track. Not to mention it looks a lot more professional. One forum I was a member of, the owner refused to do anything about his apalling grammar and spelling. The whole thing eventually came apart, and he had to put a lot of work in to get the community back together. It is certainly a turn off to new members to see the general forum populace not having much regard for good (or even passable) grammar. I have yet to see anything blatantly annoying, but then again, I have yet to read the vast bulk of this forum...

    No one likes people being pedantic about the way they speak/write, but at the same time, no one likes having to spend 10 minutes trying to work out what on earth is being said, when they shouldn't have to...

    NM
      jm1941 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Mount Gambier
    parkes if you couldnt figure out what was meant than your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum
    "Andy711549"
    99% of the time I can figure out what is being said.  But I shouldn't have to figure it out!  I should be able to just read it and understand it without the extra effort of trying to figure it out.

    And by the way, the "60+" comment was not very nice with regard to older people, many of whom are probably a lot smarter - and wiser - than you (and I'm not in that age category, by the way).
    "John of Melbourne"

    John interesting topic and some good points.

    Laughing Had to laugh at Andy's comment, "your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum"  Strange how some of the the younger set judge by themselves and perceive the over 60's, or even the older generations for that matter.

    If you get to read this post Andy, I'm one of the over 60+'s, so for those who may think like that, let's see how they fair by the time they reach the 60+ after going to the school of hard knocks for over 60+ years.  Is okay I forgive you, I realise you probably said this just as a "figure of speech"

    In our day a lot of us HAD to leave school at 14 (were lucky to reach grade 7 primary) to go out to work for a living and keep ourselves literally. I mean to leave home and support yourself at 14, no one else to help you either, not even the system. Was hard, but was the BEST teacher.

    In those early days, parents could not literally afford to give us the opportunity the youngsters of today "take for granted" of a higher education. But we were always taught basic reading, writing, and arithmetic and to TRY to spell correctly at least, so the person we are communicating with, can at the very least, understand what one is on about.  If one does not want to gain understanding, then why waste one's time here posting, and trying to communicate to all who read our posts in a gibberish language and often unreadable words.

    Even at 60+ I use "ieSpell" a post spell-checker that is part of my Internet Explorer for my posts, and not a hard thing to do either. My grandma, I mean grammar (little joke here) may not be tops, but everyone I communicate with seems to at least understand me so far. If I started using "Chat English" whatever that is, I presume it is that language that we all read over and read past their posts, so they never ever get their point of view across to most. Sad, as it is simply unreadable (no understanding) to the majority who read here.

    But then again everyone to their own I suppose. I came from an era we all understood each other, but I suppose it is "modern" to be so different one may never know what you say, or mean anymore. Wink

    Regards,
      T411 Moderator

    Location: Somewhere
    I tend to agree with the sentiments that the two John's the expressed here. I find that correct spelling and grammer makes it far far easier to understand what has been posted.

    I also accept that no one, including myself, is perfect but by at least trying to use correct grammer and spelling, that most of the time it does work out. The attitude of
    parkes if you couldnt figure out what was meant than your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum
    is quite unhelpful. Instead of attacking, how about double checking bfore hitting the submit button? Only takes a few seconds.
      Riccardo Minister for Railways

    Location: Gone. Don't bother PMing here.
    I also find it better if people can at least capitalise the start of the sentence, put full stops between sentences and try to get most of their spelling right.

    My biggest failing is 'there' vs' their' which I mix up a fair bit. Stream of consciousness sometimes happens.

    It would also help if people used extra colour, bolding, emoticons etc as one long slab of plain text looks impenitrable.
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    parkes if you couldnt figure out what was meant than your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum
    "Andy711549"
    99% of the time I can figure out what is being said.  But I shouldn't have to figure it out!  I should be able to just read it and understand it without the extra effort of trying to figure it out.

    And by the way, the "60+" comment was not very nice with regard to older people, many of whom are probably a lot smarter - and wiser - than you (and I'm not in that age category, by the way).
    "John of Melbourne"

    John interesting topic and some good points.

    Laughing Had to laugh at Andy's comment, "your obviously one of the 3 60+ members on the forum"  Strange how some of the the younger set judge by themselves and perceive the over 60's, or even the older generations for that matter.

    If you get to read this post Andy, I'm one of the over 60+'s, so for those who may think like that, let's see how they fair by the time they reach the 60+ after going to the school of hard knocks for over 60+ years.  Is okay I forgive you, I realise you probably said this just as a "figure of speech"

    In our day a lot of us HAD to leave school at 14 (were lucky to reach grade 7 primary) to go out to work for a living and keep ourselves literally. I mean to leave home and support yourself at 14, no one else to help you either, not even the system. Was hard, but was the BEST teacher.

    In those early days, parents could not literally afford to give us the opportunity the youngsters of today "take for granted" of a higher education. But we were always taught basic reading, writing, and arithmetic and to TRY to spell correctly at least, so the person we are communicating with, can at the very least, understand what one is on about.  If one does not want to gain understanding, then why waste one's time here posting, and trying to communicate to all who read our posts in a gibberish language and often unreadable words.

    Even at 60+ I use "ieSpell" a post spell-checker that is part of my Internet Explorer for my posts, and not a hard thing to do either. My grandma, I mean grammar (little joke here) may not be tops, but everyone I communicate with seems to at least understand me so far. If I started using "Chat English" whatever that is, I presume it is that language that we all read over and read past their posts, so they never ever get their point of view across to most. Sad, as it is simply unreadable (no understanding) to the majority who read here.

    But then again everyone to their own I suppose. I came from an era we all understood each other, but I suppose it is "modern" to be so different one may never know what you say, or mean anymore. Wink

    Regards,
    "jm1941"


    And I'm sure you had to walk 20 miles to school every day with bare feet in snow storms too? (Ok maybe not the snow storms) Laughing

    I'm only 17, and I hate this so called "Chat English"! Some abbreviations are okay, but most are annoying and shortened words annoy me!
      trainfreak Site Admin

    I can type fluently in both but, when I have the RP "uniform" on I talk properly. It depends on who or what I'm talking to!
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    I can type fluently in both but, when I have the RP "uniform" on I talk properly. It depends on who or what I'm talking to!
    "trainfreak"


    So can I, but I rarely use it as most of it smeg me.
      TheLoadedDog The Ghost of George Stephenson


    And I'm sure you had to walk 20 miles to school every day with bare feet in snow storms too?
    "Nexas"

    Aye, and it were oophill both ways laddie, and we we came 'ome, our dad would thrash oos tae sleep wi' broken bo'tle - if we were lucky! Aye, an' we wuz thankful for a'.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. Smile

    Seriously though, I post on a few messageboards, and whilst I seriously dislike grammar Nazis (heck, we all make typos), it is nice to see people make an effort to use correct English.

    Pet Peeves:
    - ALL "1337" type chat room English, lol. Special mention for the dreaded 'ur'.
    - aNy tYpinG LyK tHyS ( it looks STUPID, not cool )
    - there, their, they're (it's not hard)
    - 'loose' for 'lose'
    - 'less' when they mean 'fewer'

    That'll do me for now. Wink
      trainfreak Site Admin

    Yes, me too. It doesn't smeg me as such because I can read it myselfbut I hate to see people who use it all through posts. They are shprt, hgave no content and generally are smeg. The only time I ever use total slang is when I'm in a hurry. Its just that tiny bit faster Wink
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Yes, me too. It doesn't smeg me as such because I can read it myselfbut I hate to see people who use it all through posts. They are shprt, hgave no content and generally are smeg. The only time I ever use total slang is when I'm in a hurry. Its just that tiny bit faster Wink
    "trainfreak"


    Only time I use it is on Mobile Phone SMS when I don't wanna use another page and pay another cost. Even then I barely use it.

    What smeg me most is "Da"... ARGH!!!! Mad Hate that "Word" (shouldn't be considered one)

    Agreeing with TheLoadedDog™...

    I also hate 1337 SP34K!
    And have always hated TyPiNg LiKe ThIs as it really wastes time typing it.

    Although... using BRB and LOL are okay for me, as I use them a lot, in general most abbreviations are alright, it's just the shortened words that smeg me. Who needs to Shorten "The" to "Da"... really... its only 1 letter shorter...
      ParkesHub Chief Commissioner



    My biggest failing is 'there' vs' their' which I mix up a fair bit. Stream of consciousness sometimes happens.
    "Riccardo"


    Hmmm... I think some detention is in order for you, Riccardo!   Laughing

    Or maybe write 50 times:
    "I put their books over there."


    BTW, Andy's 60+ comment was in reply to a post I'd made but I did have a laugh about it, actually!
      jm1941 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Mount Gambier
    My biggest failing is 'there' vs' their' which I mix up a fair bit. Stream of consciousness sometimes happens.
    "Riccardo"

    You too,,,,,
    After all these years I still have to check on that one, but getting better at it since visiting the forums.  Wink

    And I'm sure you had to walk 20 miles to school every day with bare feet in snow storms too? (Ok maybe not the snow storms)
    "Nexas"

    No, not 20 miles in bare feet, but walked 3 miles. Oh yes we did wear shoes (parents could only afford one pair at a time in those days), was no arguments, or peer pressure which shoes to wear either.  LaughingLaughing Oh yes, no snowstorms here in S.A. either.  Wink

    Aye, and it were oophill both ways laddie, and we we came 'ome, our dad would thrash oos tae sleep wi' broken bo'tle - if we were lucky! Aye, an' we wuz thankful for a'.
    Sorry, I couldn't resist.
    "TheLoadedDog™"

    Good one nuke Laughing ya put it well.  

    Regards,
      mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

    Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
    It's not that hard to use proper spelling and grammar. Just get into the habit of doing it all the time - it shows that you are courteous enough to value other people's time deciphering what you've written higher than your own time checking to see that it's easy to decipher.

    Remember, the value of a forum like this is in the information that is published. If it's too much trouble to try to decipher the information, the forum's whole reason for existence is taken away.
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    It's not that hard to use proper spelling and grammar. Just get into the habit of doing it all the time - it shows that you are courteous enough to value other people's time deciphering what you've written higher than your own time checking to see that it's easy to decipher.

    Remember, the value of a forum like this is in the information that is published. If it's too much trouble to try to decipher the information, the forum's whole reason for existence is taken away.
    "mjja"



    All that stuff is simple to figure out tho, and easy to decipher, it's just annoying thats all.
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Theres one user here who frequently spells our country as "AusTralia"...

    Now THAT smeg me!
      Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

    Theres one user here who frequently spells our country as "AusTralia"...

    Now THAT smeg me!
    "Nexas"


    Yeah, it should be austRAILia!  

    _________________________________________________________
    SOAG
    A proud ausTRAIN.
      J549 Chief Train Controller

    About my 60+ comment...that was only for a laugh, also to get a point across which was a joke of a point anyway. I dont think of 60+ people in that sense Smile As for me im not against abreviations or for them. I have alot of ditzy friends who use it in which case i start to use it with them. When im talking to someone who doesnt use it i then use proper english and grammer. Although my spelling isnt always the best Razz  If someone who is over 60 could make my dad use a computer i'd be very happy. My father is in his 50 and computer illiterate. If he would take the time to learn soem basic internet and computer skills it would make life so much easier. (i wouldnt have to be his damned secratery Razz )
      zipitidoodah Chief Commissioner

    Disclaimer:
    I don't claim to be the God of English, and I don't claim to never make the mistakes I hate myself! Also I realise some people find all of this more difficult or weren't taught properly in the first place.

    The things that commonly annoy me, and this is in general everyday use of English: (some of which have already been pointed out):
    [list][*][b]Use of abbreviations or "chat"-style slang[/b] which forces the reader to stop to think what is actually being said.
    [*][b]Lack of capitalisation and general punctuation[/b], especially when it leads to difficulty in ascertaining exactly where the start and the finish of a sentence is. Conversely, excessive capitalisation is annoying. Basically it's only capitals if it's the start of a sentence, an acronym [u]or[/u] a [i]proper[/i] noun (eg. a name of a place or a person), NOT if you just feel the word should have capitals.
    [*][b]Poor and inaccurate spelling.[/b]
    [*]Use of "your" when it should be "you are" or "you're". To check it, try replacing it with "you are" and see if it still makes sense. If it does, then you should use "you're" and if it doesn't you should use "your".
    [*][b]Incorrect usage of "their", "they're" and "there".[/b] To check it:[list=1][*]If it makes sense when replaced with "they are" then you can use "they're".[*]If referring to an object as belonging to someone else, as in "it was their apples" then you should use "their".[*]If saying "over there" then you should use "there".[/list]I think the most common mistake is when people mean to say something like "they are going to fix the tap tomorrow" and they say "their going to fix the tap tomorrow" instead.[/list:o]
    [list][*][b]Apostrophes and plurals[/b]. Apostrophes are used to show either ownership or contractions.[list][*]Ownership: if the dog belongs to Jack, then it is "Jack's dog". If you need to add an apostrophe and an "s" to a name that already ends in "s", like "Charles", then you can make it "Charles's" or you can say "Charles' ". [u]The only exception is when using the word "it" to say that the "dog" belongs to "it", in which case [b]no[/b]apostrophe is used and you just say "its".[/u] The [b]only[/b] time you use "it's" with the apostrophe is when you could be saying "it is" instead.[*]Contractions: like converting "they are" to "they're" or converting "it is" to "it's".[/list]Now, if you want to make a word plural, ie. there is more than one of the object, like "dogs" or "cats", then most of us already know you just add an "s" unless it's a word like "sheep". [b]BUT[/b] you [u]never[/u] use an apostrophe and then an "s" because it's NOT a contraction and it's NOT showing ownership of anything. If you need to show ownership where the owner is a plural, like the toys that all the dogs were playing with, then the rule for showing ownership still applies: you have "dogs" (plural), and the word ends in "s", so you just add an apostrophe, optionally followed by an "s". In this case, you could say "Go and pack up the dogs' toys." If you had said "dog's toys" then you mean there is only one dog, and if you had said "toy's" instead of "toys" then you are just wrong!
    [*][b]Use of ie. and eg.[/b] ie. equates to "in other words" and eg. means "for example". ie. is often used when eg. should be used instead.
    [*][b]Starting a sentence with a number[/b]. Sounds stupid, but if you have to start a sentence with a number then it should be written in words, not in figures.
    [*][b]American spelling[/b] like "color" instead of "colour" and "standardize" instead of "standardise".
    [*][b]No paragraphs[/b] make a big wad of text hard to read. Ever noticed how newspapers paragraph all the time? That's so you can read it easily. Generally though, the people on the forums who do post lengthy posts paragraph anyway, so it's not much of an issue.
    [*][b]Technically incorrect grammar[/b], although this is only because I am quite pedantic!! Very Happy (like when people say "I'll try [u]and[/u] do it" when really they mean "I'll try [u]to[/u] do it")[/list]

    Most of all the apostrophes annoy me, like when "All CD's are 20% off". There is no reason to use an apostrophe so it should be "CDs". Similarly, if you were talking about G classes or VQDW wagons (to make it more relevant Smile ) you should not say "I saw lots of G's and VQDW's today" but instead "I saw lots of Gs and VQDWs today". The only problem I have with that is that it's tempting to use an apostrophe in some situations like that, however incorrect, just to ensure people understand what you say.

    Like I said at the top, I am pedantic so I take care to ensure anything I write is gramatically correct, but I know a lot of people don't care or don't know, so don't take it personally if you don't write "correctly" according to the above! Razz
      Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Another thing that smeg me, this time verbally instead of on the computer.

    Someone does something funny, and instead of laughing or saying "hehe" or something, people are now actually saying "L-O-L".

    I find this ridiculous, coz as you all know, LOL stands for "Laughing out Loud", used to tell people over the computer that you are Laughing (out loud). If you say "LOL", then you technically not Laughing, you are Speaking Out Loud.
      ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

    [quote="zipitidoodah"]
    [*][b]Incorrect usage of "their", "they're" and "there".[/b] To check it:[list=1][*]If it makes sense when replaced with "they are" then you can use "they're".[*]If referring to an object as belonging to someone else, as in "it was their apples" then you should use "their".[*]If saying "over there" then you should use "there".[/list:o]I think the most common mistake is when people mean to say something like "they are going to fix the tap tomorrow" and they say "their going to fix the tap tomorrow" instead.[/list]
    P[/quote]

    I think he's talking to you, Riccardo!!! Laughing


    [quote="zipitidoodah"]

    Most of all the apostrophes annoy me, like when "All CD's are 20% off". There is no reason to use an apostrophe so it should be "CDs". Similarly, if you were talking about G classes or VQDW wagons (to make it more relevant ) you should not say "I saw lots of G's and VQDW's today" but instead "I saw lots of Gs and VQDWs today". The only problem I have with that is that it's tempting to use an apostrophe in some situations like that, however incorrect, just to ensure people understand what you say.
    [/quote]

    The apostrophe implies ownership of the following noun:-

    "The cat's dinner is over there". i.e. The cat [i]owns [/i]the dinner[size=18][/size][size=24][/size]

    -and-

    "All cats like their dinner"

    No apostrophe as cats is plural.

    And:-

    "CDs are cheap at JB HiFi."

    No apostrophe as the plural is implied...as, remove the abbreviations, it would really read:-
    "Compact disks are cheap at JB HiFi."
      John of Melbourne The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Melbourne suburbs
    Apostrophes and plurals. Apostrophes are used to show either ownership or contractions.
    • Ownership: if the dog belongs to Jack, then it is "Jack's dog". If you need to add an apostrophe and an "s" to a name that already ends in "s", like "Charles", then you can make it "Charles's" or you can say "Charles' ". The only exception is when using the word "it" to say that the "dog" belongs to "it", in which case noapostrophe is used and you just say "its". The only time you use "it's" with the apostrophe is when you could be saying "it is" instead.
    "zipitidoodah"
    This applies to all pronouns, not just it.  Thus, hers, theirs, ours, etc. do not have apostrophes.
      Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

    (I promised myself I wouldn't do this, but I'm just a slave to temptation ....)

    zipitidoodah wrote:

    "NOT if you just feel the word should have capitals"
    "it was their apples"

    Laughing

    In fairness, I'm annoyed by bad grammar and bad spelling as well.  I don't mind the chat-english, though - I enjoy the challenge!
      Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

    Location: Botany NSW
    No one likes people being pedantic about the way they speak/write, but at the same time, no one likes having to spend 10 minutes trying to work out what on earth is being said, when they shouldn't have to...

    NM
    "Nick Moss"


    And just as importantly, there's the Archives aspect to consider, especially with, for example, spelling.

    Note that a large number of the posters here think that the a place called "Eveleigh" is spelt "Everleigh" and than have pity on anyone looking for information later.
      jm1941 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Mount Gambier
    [quote="zipitidoodah"]
    [b]Incorrect usage of "their", "they're" and "there".[/b] To check it:

    [*] If it makes sense when replaced with "they are" then you can use "they're".
    [*] If referring to an object as belonging to someone else, as in "it was their apples" then you should use "their".
    [*] If saying "over there" then you should use "there".[/quote]
    Well put together zipitidoodah.

    I always had trouble with "their" and "there", as to which one to use. Was only in later years I got around this when I went to type "their" or "there". The only way I could get it right, was to remember to equate [u]here[/u] as to [u]there[/u].
    I went over th[u]ere[/u] yesterday. H[u]ere[/u], th[u]ere[/u], both have [u]ere[/u].
    So if the ball went over their fence, it was [u]eir[/u]. ([i]as you say belonging to someone else[/i])

    It is strange how at times we use complicated ways to arrive at something simple. Have no trouble last couple of years since using forums and emailing. This has taught me a lot as to the importance of English and at least basic grammar ([i]if there is such a word as basic grammar[/i]) which I dearly hated at school, (some 48 years ago) but since having a computer I soon realised these two, English and grammar are important in communicating properly.

    Before computers I never wrote letters, all communication was verbal, face to face, or over the phone. So for us old farts the computer has sort of made us go back to school. YUK, but of course, necessary.

    I wonder how many did read all of your post and at least digested a little. Wink

    Regards,

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