New Car Set FN3 and other V/Line fleet changes

 
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Car set FN 11 - (N11) had BCZ259 removed today and was replaced by N16 + BCZ 259.

FN11 had a few problems since return from Newport, with toilets Airconditioning and Power Assisted closing doors.

Set SN7 in its current formation  is due to be shopped on or around 29 December 2008, for power door mods to S cars and removal of ACN21 for Rebuild.
Car BCZ257 shall be shopped for conversion to ACZ257 in early 2009.


Set FN 8 is presently under exam at Newport and should return pre christmas.  N 4 & SH 30 + BIH 187 under refurbishment will re appear next year.

2 x Sprinters involved in accidents 7011/7012 are also under repairs & refurbishment.

7001 & 7020 remain out of service due to brake faults.

VLH 33 was observed in the West Melbourne Wash today - its first wash in over 12 months - looks slightly better.

With regards to the push/pull sets, is it necessary to have 2 carriages with guards compartments in the set?. If it does need them maybe they be turned around to have the compartment at each end instead of having one in the middle of the set.
That way people with bicycles know where they can stand instead of getting caught out and running along the platform trying to find a compartment or even worse placing their bikes in the doorways.


Doors on "H" sets do not operate if the cars are facing the opposite way Ie One Set with van east one set with Van west, nor do MU cables etc. Not possible, reversed sets would have to be rewired I believe.

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  aussiebbq Assistant Commissioner

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Set SN7 in its current formation  is due to be shopped on or around 29 December 2008, for power door mods to S cars and removal of ACN21 for Rebuild.
"SN7"


So this means I only have about two weeks to get a photo, better get a move on. Can anyone tell me (normal) what services to Geelong it is used on?
  r707 Chief Commissioner

Location: Here
SN7 always runs only on the 16:55 Marshall Mon-Fri, and one of the morning ups (can't remember which)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

IIRC there is a total 59 H cars made of 55 VLP H cars and the four MTH ex Stony Point = 59 .

So if there are to be 7 x 7 car push/pull sets for outer suburban services, plus 2 x 5 car sets that would chew up all available cars viz:  49 + 10 = 59 .

Lengthening platforms (as others have mooted) )on the Bacchus Marsh and Sunbury lines to hold 7 H cars would provide a substantial increase in overall peak hour capacity .

If 7 car H sets are run one would think that they would just be hauled by a single N class, as VLP does not have enough P class to front 7 sets push/pull and in any case 2 x P class on 6 H cars are straining their guts out and laying down a smoke plume ; let alone asking them to handle 7 cars .

(Brings back memories of the old 0658 Up Geelong in the late 1970's struggling along with a single T expected to haul 7 - 8 wooden bodied W cars . )
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

But if the P class locos where aquired from PN there would almost be.....
and allowing one set out for maintenance, etc, 6 sets running would have enough P locos.

The main advantage of Push -  Pull working is to eliminate the need for run arounds, saving time, also the P class could be modified for DOO.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

If you were running with a single N doesn't the electricity load become a problem...I never seem to be able to get a clear answer on this and people always seem to disagree...

As far as I am aware the cables in the H sets can only have a load for 5 carriages going though them before the cable overheats...so unless you also have a powervan at the other end a single N class can only haul a 5 carriage set.

Also I believe that P class locos can only provide enough HEP power for 4 carriages.

I believed this was 2 more reasons for running 6 carriage H's as Push Pulls.

Anyone please correct me if this is wrong...
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
SN7 always runs only on the 16:55 Marshall Mon-Fri, and one of the morning ups (can't remember which)
"r707"


The up service usually run by SN7 is the 0747 South Geelong, along with the 1655 Marshall down (usually departing from 3B).

On the topic of push-pulls, haven't there been 8-car push-pulls before? Usually for football specials on the Geelong line.

Thing is, if V/Line currently only have 8 P Class locos, there's no point making 7 sets designed solely for push-pull operation. I am a fan of having all loco-hauled sets be a minimum of five cars, though, especially for interurban-only H sets.

Also, does it seem worthwhile lengthening the platforms at Sunbury for seven H cars when they'll be eventually electrified? That said, they would probably need to be lengthened to handle suburbans anyway.
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

With regard to the removal of the BIH cars from the exsisting push pulls, some time ago,  this is and shows how double standards exsist , the reason I believe was that the trains where over the length of the down platform at Diggers Rest, Melton and Rockbank, yet VSH-FSH-VLH sets run to Seymour, and are outside the platform at Donnybrook and Heathcote Junction, as well the 1515 Echuca always has the half the rear VL off the platform at Diggers Rest. - whats the difference..
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

A lot of the H cars have been fitted with heavier electric cabling for the HEP removing car limitations. These cars are in the five car sets.

Originally as converted from Harris Cars the old control cable was used for the HEP and this cable had/has a limitation of FOUR cars .

The P class HEP units are capable of supporting 4 H cars .

So a 4 + 3 push/pull H set can be run with 2 x P class units .

If VLP acquired the P class from PN it would give a total 13 P class which is not enough for 7 push/pull sets . However if there were 6 sets to traffic then it would be tight but it could work .

The push/pull would allow for tight turnarounds on Sunbury / Bacchus Marsh and with tight car working one could obtain probably two return peak trips with each set in both the am and pm peaks .
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
If VLP acquired the P class from PN it would give a total 13 P class which is not enough for 7 push/pull sets.
"kuldalai"

Why not N+P push pulls - N class one end and and the P on the other? It avoids the loco availability issue, and gives the consist a bit more grunt.

Geelong football specials have 2x P class and 8 cars, Airshow specials have had 2x N class and 8 cars.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

There was an issue with using N class on H set push/pull sets in that when the loco dynamic brake was applied the doors released .  IIRC this issue has now  been resolved.  

Yes a push/pull with an N on one end and a P on the other would give plenty of grunt .

Another option is recabling of the remaining cars and loco on one end and a driving trailer on the other end .
  aussiebbq Assistant Commissioner

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Another option is recabling of the remaining cars and loco on one end and a driving trailer on the other end .
"kuldalai"


Wasn't this how the H sets were originally going to be built, with a P permanently at one end an a driver trailer at the other?


SN7 always runs only on the 16:55 Marshall Mon-Fri, and one of the morning ups (can't remember which)
"r707"



The up service usually run by SN7 is the 0747 South Geelong, along with the 1655 Marshall down (usually departing from 3B).
"Deanodriver"


Thanks for that guys, I will have to get down there and get a photo ASAP.[/quote]
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

The last scheduled run for set SN 7 shall be on 29 /12 on the 0850 Arrival at Southern Cross ex South Geelong,  the Set will then be hauled to Newport and ACN 21 removed - for conversion to BDN21 - the 5 x S cars shall re emerge mid jan early feb 2009 with power assisted doors and be united with car BCZ 257 - to become set Z 57.

The accommodation on the trains shall be all economy, as conversion -refurbishment - retrofit of car BCZ 2587 to ACZ 257 has been kyboshed  -it will remain in its present form, only turned to face the opposite direction., I believe.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

BDN 21  implies a 5 car sg set made up of  ACN, BN, BRN,BN, BDN . With the BDN being an ACN configuration with van , but fitted with Economy seating and accommodation for X number of wheelchair places  ???
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
The last scheduled run for set SN 7 shall be on 29 /12 on the 0850 Arrival at Southern Cross ex South Geelong,  the Set will then be hauled to Newport and ACN 21 removed - for conversion to BDN21 - the 5 x S cars shall re emerge mid jan early feb 2009 with power assisted doors and be united with car BCZ 257 - to become set Z 57.

The accommodation on the trains shall be all economy, as conversion -refurbishment - retrofit of car BCZ 2587 to ACZ 257 has been kyboshed  -it will remain in its present form, only turned to face the opposite direction., I believe.
"SN7"


Do you know what is tipped to run the 0747 up Sth Geelong/ 1655 down Marshall in the absence of SN7 then? Standard FN set I presume?
  vlocity160 V/Gunzel

The replacement set commencing PM Monday 29/12 will be an “FN” Set on the 0747 Up South Geelong & 1655 down Marshall Roster weekdays. The FN Set will remain on the runs for the first 2 weeks after 29/12 (whilst Geelong peak patronage is down for the holiday period) and commencing Monday 12/01 the set will be replaced with the spare VN set.
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
I have notices both of the Geelong super-expresses have been five cars made up of 3VL+VL. When I say the first one I thought cramming in 7 cars worth of people wouldn't work, but after I saw the second train I noticed there were no standees. I assume this is a holiday only thing, allowing more maintenance, or extra units on the busy 'daytripper' trains just after the end of peak?
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
The last scheduled run for set SN 7 shall be on 29 /12 on the 0850 Arrival at Southern Cross ex South Geelong.
"SN7"

I got some shots this morning, I assume it didn't run last Thursday and Friday due to the holiday timetable.

Empty cars to South Geelong:
[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D717_1779.jpg[/img]

[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D717_1787.jpg[/img]

And on the up outside Lara:
[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D718_1874.jpg[/img]

The ACN looks pretty ratty these days:
[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D718_1876.jpg[/img]



The set was only formed just over a year ago - this was the test run to Geelong on September 18, 2007:
[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D320_2089.jpg[/img]

This would have to be my favourite shot of it through. Razz
[img]http://wongm.railgeelong.com/vline-geelong/image/500/D380_8062.jpg[/img]
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
Vale set SN7; which consisted for the majority of its time as:-
ACN21-BS215-BS216-BS219-BS218-BS217
Friday 21st September 2007 - Monday 29th December 2008

In service for 465 days, of which approximately 320 of those was spent in running exclusively on the 1655 down Marshall / 0745 up South Geelong.

Some shots from this morning:-














Of more significance, this was the last run of ACN21 in its original form after around 26.5 years (entered service 14/05/1982). It will be the first ACN car to be converted to another car type - a 'BDN' type carriage (BDN21) which will run on standard gauge Albury services.






As stated, once fitted with power assisted doors, the S cars will be paired with BCZ257 to form set Z57; return of the Z sets!
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
For the record, SN7+BCZ257 will be transferred to Newport Workshops behind N464 tomorrow morning; at 0543. Initially it was to be transferred this morning.

If N464 sticks around at the shops, I gather it'll get white adhesive strips applied on the front. It's the last N class loco without them!
  Metro Transit Minister for Railways

Location: Error.
Error.
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I have notices both of the Geelong super-expresses have been five cars made up of 3VL+VL. When I say the first one I thought cramming in 7 cars worth of people wouldn't work, but after I saw the second train I noticed there were no standees. I assume this is a holiday only thing, allowing more maintenance, or extra units on the busy 'daytripper' trains just after the end of peak?
"wongm"


Why run the large trains if there's no need? Saves fuel then. It was amazing how few cars were at South Geelong this morning (got a park less than 50m from the platform instead of walking from Foster Street). Would've been less than half full.

Intriguingly, the 1729 down service still ran as seven cars, although there were a lot of empty seats when leaving Southern Cross.

I remember last summer the peak services only need four car V/Locities, and there were spare seats on those too.

Hopefully they can use this time to finish the platform extension at South Geelong (not that it'd need much more than gates and markings).
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller

I have notices both of the Geelong super-expresses have been five cars made up of 3VL+VL. When I say the first one I thought cramming in 7 cars worth of people wouldn't work, but after I saw the second train I noticed there were no standees. I assume this is a holiday only thing, allowing more maintenance, or extra units on the busy 'daytripper' trains just after the end of peak?
"wongm"


Last night's 17:29 Marshall was still a 7-car set, but the most empty I have ever seen it, so I have to admit was more enjoyable than usual. :p

EDIT: Just noticed the post above me already mentioned this.
  vlocity160 V/Gunzel

N464, N458, SN7 and BCZ257 left for Newport this morning. Quick overview of each:-

N464 - "E" Exam and possible fitting of white band - Anticipated return date 16/01/2009
N458 - "D" Exam - Anticipated return date 16/01/2009
SN7 - Power Door Installation to BS 215-219 - removal of ACN21 for to be announced conversion to Standard Guage as BDN21 & G exam - Anticipated return date to be announced
BCZ257 - Conversion to Part Set "Z57" - Anticipated return date to be announced
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I have notices both of the Geelong super-expresses have been five cars made up of 3VL+VL. When I say the first one I thought cramming in 7 cars worth of people wouldn't work, but after I saw the second train I noticed there were no standees. I assume this is a holiday only thing, allowing more maintenance, or extra units on the busy 'daytripper' trains just after the end of peak?
"wongm"


Last night's 17:29 Marshall was still a 7-car set, but the most empty I have ever seen it, so I have to admit was more enjoyable than usual. :p

EDIT: Just noticed the post above me already mentioned this.
"RATLSNAKE"


It seems that both nights were running as seven cars for some reason. Nice and quiet, I can get a decent sleep Smile

Maybe the cars used in that service are required for up services later that night?

Does anyone know about the 1640 down Marshall? I would imagine that it would be a four/five car train, since most of the train returns to Melbourne as empty cars anyway (IIRC).

vlocity160, can you confirm that ACN21 will become BDN21? Also, would the ACN-BDN modifications and the SG conversion happen at the same time, or would it be changed to a BDN and then kept on BG until the SG line is nearly ready?

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