P Class to heritage group

 
  Kooka Train Controller

Pretty good looking photo edit in my opinion. Looks similar to an X Class, except a few metres shorter. Does anyone think SGR would be interested in getting a P? P's operated regularly on the South Gippsland Railway during the 1980's - late 1990's.

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  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Of course they'd no doubt be interested, but the if one, or more, is actually able to be "handed out" is the only problem. Wink

As I'm sure each heritage group would love a 'freebie' loco that they could use or hire out and earn some revenue with... Smile

But I'd think that's a long way off yet, V/Lo's have a while to go yet before they completely replace loco-hauled services, let alone N's being replaced, unfortunately.

EDIT: I would think that VicRail would still be under the 50 year trademark protection, also. Have to speak to the relevant people about getting permission to use it, just like you would for V/Line tangerine era.

Wolfpac
  Kooka Train Controller

Of course they'd no doubt be interested, but the if one, or more, is actually able to be "handed out" is the only problem. Wink

As I'm sure each heritage group would love a 'freebie' loco that they could use or hire out and earn some revenue with... Smile

But I'd think that's a long way off yet, V/Lo's have a while to go yet before they completely replace loco-hauled services, let alone N's being replaced, unfortunately.

EDIT: I would think that VicRail would still be under the 50 year trademark protection, also. Have to speak to the relevant people about getting permission to use it, just like you would for V/Line tangerine era.

Wolfpac
"wolfpac"


SGR would probably try and get a P and if successful hire it out to a freight operator to earn revenue, as you were saying last post. T342 is SGR owned and on loan to El Zorro, just an example.
  gtrtorana Train Controller

Location: VIC, former home of the best loco's in OZ
When/if the day comes and a P class is preserved, I think it would be a shame to paint it in VR livery as it never ran like that and we already have a heap of loco's in VR already.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
SGR would probably try and get a P and if successful hire it out to a freight operator to earn revenue, as you were saying last post. T342 is SGR owned and on loan to El Zorro, just an example.
"Kooka"


Of course, that's what I've said, the problem first is IF and WHEN a P class loco comes up for preservation.

We certainly know who'd like one/several and what they'd do with it/them.

Will be a very long time yet before a P will be given out to any heritage operator. You would think PN would get first dibs on any surplus locomotives first.

Even longer still before anyone can think about painting one back to V/LINE Tangerine and Grey...

But we can be optimistic, but not much more than that, unfortunately...

Wolfpac
  AclassGunzel Deputy Commissioner

I suppose stranger things have happened like C class loco's retiring in the late 90's and the resurgence of VR on grain trains in 2009-2010.
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
I just want to see the OzRide loco preserved...
  redrattler4552 Station Master

You bet SGR would love one so we can do some major work on Y135. Then again what heritage group would knock one back.

You will find if Vic Track were to give them away or any rolling stock in the agreement you will find that it will state something of the following.

THE SAID ROLLING STOCK WILL NOT BE ON HIRED TO ANY OTHER ORGANISATION FOR ANY REASON!

You will find that will be the case. Why should Vic Track miss out on the cash and yes the groups would love the cash but they dont like the locos being leased out.

By the way V line are supose to do freight now so they need locos for that?
  james13 Chief Commissioner

Location: At the Skunk Works
......I would love to see either the Orange and Grey, OR, we could have the Orange and Silver ''Tea Cup Livery'' of VicRail......
"tranzitjim"

Here's a T class I prepared earlier. A P would look similar.

  Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!
......I would love to see either the Orange and Grey, OR, we could have the Orange and Silver ''Tea Cup Livery'' of VicRail......
"tranzitjim"

Here's a T class I prepared earlier. A P would look similar.

"james13"


It doesn't look right on a T...or even a P in fact. Then again, you can get some sucker who would buy it given the chance!
  412M Assistant Commissioner

Will be a very long time yet before a P will be given out to any heritage operator. You would think PN would get first dibs on any surplus locomotives first.

Why on earth would PN be given locos???????????????????

They are a private, for-profit company that has no reason to get them. If they want some locos, then they can get some of their locos sitting around doing nothing to be returned to service, as opposed to scrapping them. ElZorro is more desperate for locos, and so, they should be given Ps, assuming they are given to a for-profit company. Even this is questionable, as a for-profit company should pay to become the owner of any item (including a P or multiple ones).

As for heritage, they would best be used on all-steel car sets, with air-con/lights in use, as that is why they were given HEP units. They should be run on lines they were used on regularly, and in liveries they wore in service (although slight modifications would be acceptable, ie. SRV/SRHC logo instead of V/line or VicRail logo).
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Will be a very long time yet before a P will be given out to any heritage operator. You would think PN would get first dibs on any surplus locomotives first.

Why on earth would PN be given locos???????????????????

They are a private, for-profit company that has no reason to get them. If they want some locos, then they can get some of their locos sitting around doing nothing to be returned to service, as opposed to scrapping them. ElZorro is more desperate for locos, and so, they should be given Ps, assuming they are given to a for-profit company. Even this is questionable, as a for-profit company should pay to become the owner of any item (including a P or multiple ones).

As for heritage, they would best be used on all-steel car sets, with air-con/lights in use, as that is why they were given HEP units. They should be run on lines they were used on regularly, and in liveries they wore in service (although slight modifications would be acceptable, ie. SRV/SRHC logo instead of V/line or VicRail logo).
"412M"


As in first dibs on purchasing them. (Obviously a key word I'd left out of my post) Why give them away when you can make some money back on them? Either way, PN or ElZ would no doubt buy them first, then when they're done with them, if they're feeling generous enough on the day, then forward them onto preservation... IF...

However, they rarely pulled N/Z steel cars, (yes it did happen, I've seen the photos too!) obviously being purpose refurbished to haul the "Poor Man's XPT" with H cars and usually another P. I'm sure the livery purists would be up in arms if there was another 'inferior' livery running around...

In any case, any talk of passing P classes into heritage custody would be far, far, far off in the future, unfortunately.

Wolfpac
  VBAndy Chief Commissioner

Okay, now the foam is at intense levels. Excuse me while I get my raincoat.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Okay, now the foam is at intense levels. Excuse me while I get my raincoat.
"VBAndy"


Ya huh, although the poncho might be a good idea too! Shocked What I was trying to head off early way back with that (if slightly nasty!) post earlier.

Oh well, we could all see the massive foam wave come crashing over the horizon from the first post...  Laughing

Wolfpac
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Er - we're now on page 3, and the whole thing is still no more than a rumour.
Everybody relax.
  Maikha Moderator Not a gunzel

Has there been any confirmation yet? 3 Pages now and nothing.

It has been reported in one of the railway magazines that a P class member it to head to one of the heritage groups can anyone shed any light on this?
"RogersM"
What magazine is this?
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
Well no P Classes are headed to Steamrail!
"LowndesJ515"


I can confirm this much on behalf of Steamrail. That was on Page 1.
  Maikha Moderator Not a gunzel

Well no P Classes are headed to Steamrail!
"LowndesJ515"


I can confirm this much on behalf of Steamrail. That was on Page 1.
"LowndesJ515"
Noted, and I suspect this will be the same outcome with SRHC and 707 Ops.

It was more for RogersM to give some more details before being casted in the BS basket.
  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
It is very important for both SRHC and Steamrail to each recieve one complete train set of 1x P class and 1x H car set.

Given the P class where built for the H cars.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
It is very important for both SRHC and Steamrail to each recieve one complete train set of 1x P class and 1x H car set.
"tranzitjim"


I'd be inclined to disagree - while it's important to ensure things are preserved, there are many types of passenger rolling stock here in NSW where some cars are preserved, but certainly not a full train, and not to running condition. If one preserves a full operational set of every type of passenger car, then space will be at a premium. My opinion would be that as long as the important cars are retained (eg preserving the spirit of progress cars is a great thing), then as long as a couple of the other cars are retained, then you can't go too far wrong.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
It is very important for both SRHC and Steamrail to each recieve one complete train set of 1x P class and 1x H car set.

Given the P class where built for the H cars.
"tranzitjim"


The foam is really flowing now...

Given that nobody actually likes H sets, how do you think you are going to fill a train of those cars to make a tour viable?

A P class, yes this could be useful to a heritage operator in the future with the HEP generator. It would be ideal for trains with a small amount of aircon cars.

The only potential I could see for an operational H car would be to use an MTH with a DRC or Derm to get enough bums on seats to make a railmotor trip possibly viable (assuming the railmotors ever get back out on the mainline, which is a very big if)
  inter Train Controller

Location: Shrinking wheels
It is very important for both SRHC and Steamrail to each recieve one complete train set of 1x P class and 1x H car set.

Given the P class where built for the H cars.
"tranzitjim"


The foam is really flowing now...

Given that nobody actually likes H sets, how do you think you are going to fill a train of those cars to make a tour viable?

A P class, yes this could be useful to a heritage operator in the future with the HEP generator. It would be ideal for trains with a small amount of aircon cars.

The only potential I could see for an operational H car would be to use an MTH with a DRC or Derm to get enough bums on seats to make a railmotor trip possibly viable (assuming the railmotors ever get back out on the mainline, which is a very big if)
"VRfan"

And, no James, don't even think about it. Twisted Evil
  newington Chief Commissioner

Location: Here, very occasionally.
Sorry about crashing the thread a bit, but what is the the difference between a P and a low nose T?
  T251 Chief Train Controller

Location: Geelong
Sorry about crashing the thread a bit, but what is the the difference between a P and a low nose T?
"newington"

The P classes were rebuilt from flat top Ts in the 80s for hauling H sets. There are many differences between them, but the main one is that Ps have a generator for Head End Power (for the lights, a/c etc.), which the 60s era low nose Ts lack.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
Sorry about crashing the thread a bit, but what is the the difference between a P and a low nose T?
"newington"


Similarities are bogies and frame. LaughingLaughingLaughing

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