New 80 km/h blanket speed Goulburn to Junee - for everything

 
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Fresh off the press , due to the AK Test Cars last trip over the Goulburn Junee section the maximum speed limit has been reduced to 80 km/h .
Theres no limit to the damage the AK cars/train do and some think it should be banned ...

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  newington Chief Commissioner

Location: Here, very occasionally.
Fresh off the press , due to the AK Test Cars last trip over the Goulburn Junee section the maximum speed limit has been reduced to 80 km/h .
"BDA"
Thanks for the info
Theres no limit to the damage the AK cars/train do and some think it should be banned ...


Now That's a bit unwarranted
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Theres no limit to the damage the AK cars/train do and some think it should be banned ...
"BDA"


Without hearing all of the information, I do think this is a gross overreaction. The AK Cars operate to ensure the track is in good condition. I'd rather see ARTC put some effort into fixing the Main South, as (in my experience) it is in shocking condition (especially for passenger travel).

That's like exposing yourself to cold temperatures without wearing the proper clothing, then blaming the doctor for diagnosing you with the flu.
  FieldShunt74 Chief Commissioner

It's not an over-reaction, those AK cars are evil, eeeevvilllll!  Everywhere they go, the caution boards follow.  BDA is correct, if we got rid of the AK's and their ilk, we could have proper rough track, just as God and ARTC intended.





Can't you chaps recognise decent sarcasm when you see it?
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Can't you chaps recognise decent sarcasm when you see it?
"FieldShunt74"


Been a rather long and boring day, must have gone straight over my head on the first reading...
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What % of this track Is (or Is the was) rated at speeds higher than 80 km/h ?

A new track mostly on a new alinement Is needed between Douglas Park and Wagga Wagga to Improve the route.

But than with NSW virtually bankrupt ? one can't expect much ?
  X_Class Junior Train Controller

Location: Hunter Valley
The blokes at SFT & QR Junee will be about $100 a fortnight better off now...
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Give us a break , the news was that fresh I thought I'd better go for a run over it .
It turns out that it's only on the up side , AK set was still at Goulburn in the early hours BTW .

Actually the up road from Junee is a disgrace and it starts with the damaged switch that limits all up traffic to 10 km/h - luvly on a long train . 50 over the top of the Waterworks Hill and dozens of them dotted all the way to Goulburn and beyond . There is at least one 20 km/h caution and two 10 km/k cautions out there now .

Nope , us and the Tombies would be lucky to scrape ten bux out of the time difference given the hourly rate - for an express goodsie loaded at 1000/donk . We left early and passed through Goulburn not quite so early so no biggie .

The worm will have had a hard time out of it and probably stands to lose the most .
If the down line cops the same deal then they may as well run busses because it would  be faster .

Isn't every railie an incurable cynic ? Sarcasm rules .
  davo_1620 Chief Commissioner

Location: Nearest bottle shop or pub.
Maybe the AK cars have a casual job at the RTA? Out our way loads of roads have had their limits dropped from 100km to 80km, 80km to 60 km, and 60 km sections extended way out from what they were. Of course there has been no change to the conditions, and the local revenue raisers take full advantage of people driving the "old" way.
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
Who actually owns and runs the AK test cars train.
Whats the basis for it operating.
  Ben_Daui Deputy Commissioner

Here is a good explanation: http://www.robertstrains.net/history.html
  jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I can verify this. I went to melbourne on friday night for the gp on saturday and sunday and there were no speed restrictions, but there was on the way back to sydney on monday. A couple of times I was bounced from one side of the train to the other while walking to the buffet car. It was a wild ride.

the train certainly wasn't doing 80km/h all the way (between junee and goulburn). Sometimes I think I could have got out and walked faster. certainly the snails were going past at a faster rate then the train.

Just looking at the state of the tracks, they still seemed to be all boggy like on that abc show that I saw. There was a whole lot of concrete sleepers on the side of the track, so much waste of time, energy and resources. When are they going to fix it properly once and for all?
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
the train certainly wasn't doing 80km/h all the way (between junee and goulburn). Sometimes I think I could have got out and walked faster. certainly the snails were going past at a faster rate then the train.
"jedimasterc"


My understanding is that drivers just don't do the posted speeds due to the condition of the track.

When are they going to fix it properly once and for all?


People whinge and moan about RailCorp doing trackwork and shutting lines down completely over a weekend, but the end result is a thousand and one times better than the ARTC method - any given weekend shutdown track in section is typically ripped up completely and relaid from the bedrock up. Does the network have mudholes? Yeah, some, but they are few and far between, so are usually fixed a lot quicker.

ARTC need to work on a plan to just completely relay whole sections of track at a time instead of what they are doing now, as it's just not working...
  drover Chief Train Controller

Location: where caseyjones isn't
The long trains cant do the speeds due to all the TSR's,get off one and onto another,the track is S H I T,
  craigd Deputy Commissioner

Location: A Thinktank near you
ARTC have been caught out big-time with the cheapness of the rebuilding of the line between Melbourne and Albury/Wodonga so I expect that if the 'risk managers' decide to apply a blanket 80 kph speed restriction over a long section of track there are good reasons.

Remember that in some parts of the country (especially on the line between Tarcoola and Alice Springs) there have been long sections with 'permanent' 80 and 70 kph speed restrictions almost since the lines were opened.

In the specific case of Tarcoola to Alice Springs, many sections were built with recylcled rail pulled up from now-gone broad gauge lines in South Australia.

Craig.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Well according to an ARTC manager that went for a cab ride to Tombstone the Feds have decided to open the purse strings and splash a bit of cash .
I belive the plan is to run the sled gadget through a lot of it and increase the ballast depth . I guess this means whats underneath would need some ballast cleaning as well in places and to do this probably means using a BLX machine . Also theres supposed to be a couple of tampers running around exclusively for a while .
I was also told that the Bethungra Junee section on the down main will be re sleepered using better proven methods than side insertion .
The question was asked about the bridge between Tallong and Medway and the answer is that some new method of fixing its problems is in the wings .

It all came back to funding a maybe it was a bit of agitation thats made sum bux available .
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
It was always going to be fixable. ARTC was able to obtain billions of $ of long life capital assets. Pity the infrastructure was so run down by the previous state govs that they could do all that was required straight away. You can't turn around decades of neglect in a year or two.



Rolling Eyes
  crypticone Chief Train Controller

Location: Blue Mtns
Sled=Poor mans BLX

Regards
  a6et Minister for Railways

Well according to an ARTC manager that went for a cab ride to Tombstone the Feds have decided to open the purse strings and splash a bit of cash .
I belive the plan is to run the sled gadget through a lot of it and increase the ballast depth . I guess this means whats underneath would need some ballast cleaning as well in places and to do this probably means using a BLX machine . Also theres supposed to be a couple of tampers running around exclusively for a while .
I was also told that the Bethungra Junee section on the down main will be re sleepered using better proven methods than side insertion .
The question was asked about the bridge between Tallong and Medway and the answer is that some new method of fixing its problems is in the wings .

It all came back to funding a maybe it was a bit of agitation thats made sum bux available .
"BDA"


Unless there is a degree of ballast cleaning the sled is not likely to have a great impact at least for long term improvements.

The only way is create some decent hard beds with drainage points, & lay cleaned & fresh ballast on top.
  ContactBand Junior Train Controller

you can do all the sledding, ballast cleaning and tamping you want, its not going to fix the problem of the damaged capping layer that will pool water and create more bog holes.

Digging concrete sleepers into the capping layer= FAIL!
  jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
It was always going to be fixable. ARTC was able to obtain billions of $ of long life capital assets. Pity the infrastructure was so run down by the previous state govs that they could do all that was required straight away. You can't turn around decades of neglect in a year or two.



Rolling Eyes
"cootanee"


I think it is more the fact that they keep insisting that side insertion is ok rather then accepting that it isn't and redoing the line properly as per railcorp these days.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Something else he apparently mentioned was that 60 Kg rail is a lot more rigid than whats currently out there though it does have have a decent base under it .
He said old rail ends up with lots of minor kinks from hunting and it gets a kind of memory in it . New straight rail ("kinkless") should help prevent a lot of the lateral movement that adds something to rough riding .
He was asked if this new 60kg rail would eventually give Hunter Valley like standards and he said that it should proved the base underneath it is equivalent . He did mention something about this rail being better than the head hardened stuff up there but wasn't to specific .

Maybe perwaynut can add something to these points .
  a6et Minister for Railways

Something else he apparently mentioned was that 60 Kg rail is a lot more rigid than whats currently out there though it does have have a decent base under it .
He said old rail ends up with lots of minor kinks from hunting and it gets a kind of memory in it . New straight rail ("kinkless") should help prevent a lot of the lateral movement that adds something to rough riding .
He was asked if this new 60kg rail would eventually give Hunter Valley like standards and he said that it should proved the base underneath it is equivalent . He did mention something about this rail being better than the head hardened stuff up there but wasn't to specific .

Maybe perwaynut can add something to these points .
"BDA"


Is the rail & method he is talking about used in the Hunter the same as was done in the 80's?  If so the work that was carried out up there, despite some areas of sinking seems to have stood the test of time, although it was a dead set pain in operations even back then owing to the amount of trains that were still required to run, albeit most were not of the load & lengths seen today.

The significant part of what was done up there was the complete removal of the then existing track in cuttings with the ballast cleaned as it was removed. once they had got down to the water layer, the whole area was then drained out using pumps where needed & a full drainage system was set in place with old cleaned ballast placed back in which was covered with drainage mats.  Basically the same principle as used with underground AG pipes & covered with a sock.  

Bad cuttings also were deepened on the sides & had drain points set in place to allow any water to escape.

Only in the badly affected areas where water & mud lay there for times after rain did this happen, but was often dependent on the condition of the main road bed as the old ballast was taken up.  Certainly when it was finished the whole ride was incredible.

It would be a huge undertaking on the South, but at what cost?  The thing is that it would take years but would pay back in improvements but I would think that more long term advantage would be achieved by a realignment in those areas of steep grades & tight curves.

With the condition of the track as bad as it is, there would be no better time to get serious in this area of track work.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I agree better alignments would be the Champaign option but I can only guess as to what that sort of budget it would run to and getting the funding would mean cuts in other areas and you already know my views on that .
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
It was always going to be fixable. ARTC was able to obtain billions of $ of long life capital assets. Pity the infrastructure was so run down by the previous state govs that they could do all that was required straight away. You can't turn around decades of neglect in a year or two.



Rolling Eyes
"cootanee"


I think it is more the fact that they keep insisting that side insertion is ok rather then accepting that it isn't and redoing the line properly as per railcorp these days.
"jedimasterc"



Railcorp...  Shocked

Whilst their stewardship of metro Sydney may be excellent - did its manifestations take the same approach to the DIRN in the two decades before the ARTC lease  Question

Did they actually have any strategy to improve rail freight within NSW or was it left to NRC and One Nation funding to get anything done (how hard was putting the Parkes  triangle in)  Question

I’m sure if ARTC had the same funding per km as Railcorp in metro Sydney they wouldn’t need to look for project cost savings. If the tables were turned and Railcorp were left to maintain the DIRN I suspect much of the south between Goulburn and Junee would be single lined by now with plenty of speed restrictions especially in summer and no upside in sight.  Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

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