44's at Minto

 
  Nick-The-Great Station Staff

Location: Sydney
Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows why 4461 has been stored? Is it just surplus to requirements or has it suffered a failure? It seems to be being looked after as some graffiti was covered up in less than 48 hours, last week! Also, in the last couple of days, 4477 has joined it on that long siding. I wonder if it will stay for long?

Nick

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  Adam2013 Beginner

Hey
4461 is waiting for new wheels same as 4498 at cooks river, 4488 needs a new wleel after the derailment at yennora with 8037 .
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I believe Qube crews start up 4461 every so often too, to keep it ticking over. Obviously it can't go anywhere without wheels, but at least it's been looked after.
  Nick-The-Great Station Staff

Location: Sydney
Ah, thanks for that!  I had horrible visions of that poor loco gradually disappearing, piece by piece before the cutting torch arrived. It's good to know that they're being looked after.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Ah, thanks for that!  I had horrible visions of that poor loco gradually disappearing, piece by piece before the cutting torch arrived. It's good to know that they're being looked after.
Nick-The-Great
See the article about the NREC Gen-sets. Maybe these old smoke belching hulks will end up as scrap to be replaced by environmentally friendly gen-sets.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
See the article about the NREC Gen-sets. Maybe these old smoke belching hulks will end up as scrap to be replaced by environmentally friendly gen-sets.
"nswtrains"


Yes perhaps you had best see, read and comprehend the NREC thread which says that these units are going to Pac/Nat.

Qube own the 44 class.
  bjwh86 Chief Train Controller

How many 44's do QUBE own? Seen one yesterday at Granville heading in the Clyde direction at the head of a container train.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
How many 44's do QUBE own? Seen one yesterday at Granville heading in the Clyde direction at the head of a container train.
bjwh86
To answer your question, nine.

For further information:

http://www.railpage.com.au/locos/class/34/

and/or:

http://www.railpage.com.au/locos/browse/owner/23/
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Further to the original posts - 4477 and 4471 were both awake last night (Sunday night), and it appears as if 4471 had taken a train out with an MZ Class today. 4477 meanwhile is spending time time in the loco servicing area at the Sydney end of the MIST compound.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Yes perhaps you had best see, read and comprehend the NREC thread which says that these units are going to Pac/Nat.

Qube own the 44 class.
Black Hoppers
You don't say. I would not have known that unless you told me. If you cared to think about what I said it is possible someone like Qube could also acquire some. Foamers might like old 44's but for the general public they hardly present a good corporate image. Generally, I think you will find these old locos are on their way out.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Foamers might like old 44's but for the general public they hardly present a good corporate image.
nswtrains
I think you'll find the general public only care when a train breaks down, and even then they'd be completely ignorant of the age of the locomotives. However...

Generally, I think you will find these old locos are on their way out.
nswtrains

You're still spot on with this comment. They had their day. Then they were withdrawn. Then they were re-activated in desperation by private companies operating on stuff-all startup. Their time is coming to an end for a second time, as the operators sort out their spots in the market and start modernizing.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
I can't see Qube scrapping any locos just yet but I can't see them buying new wheels either, maybe they could offer them for sale and someone like Grain Corp or Sydney trains could buy them for track upgrading or an XPT shunter.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I can't see Qube scrapping any locos just yet but I can't see them buying new wheels either, maybe they could offer them for sale and someone like Grain Corp or Sydney trains could buy them for track upgrading or an XPT shunter.
Junction box
Please don't take offensive, but you're well off the mark here...

Firstly, if you can't see them buying new wheels, then you've missed the fact that they've bought six 1100 Class recently, to be followed up by an order of 6 SDA1 model locomotives from China.

As to why GrainCorp or Sydney Trains would want to purchase sixty year old ALCo locomotives, then you're dreaming. The 44 Class reached the end of their lives when they were withdrawn from government service - they're old, clapped out, fuel hungry, polluting, underpowered, maintenence intensive hulks. The only reason they continued in service after withdrawl is that the new private operators saw a cheap way to get horses to run their new trains - they sure as anything didn't have the money to buy brand new high horsepower units. The 44 Class have cascaded down from mainline service as "newer" locomotives have been introduced, and their current role is likely where they will finish. They're already living on borrowed time.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
The fact that they have made sixty years proves that with some TLC they will continue to haul, how many times did Freight Corp overhaul their ALCOs to provide in your words cheap horses, if Qube are still ordering locos then a 100G is still feasable for a set of wheels, with plenty of 80 and 442 poking about I reckon there is some hope for some 44cl power.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
The fact that they have made sixty years proves that with some TLC they will continue to haul
Junction box
*sigh*

TLC? Try MONEY. At what point does throwing thousands and thousands of dollars into clapped out, outdated technology  become throwing good money after bad?

how many times did Freight Corp overhaul their ALCOs to provide in your words cheap horses
Somebody
I never said this was about FreightCorp. That was a government organisation. It is a completely different world in the post privatization era. That being said, the same thing has happened. Repeatedly. The 44's have been done to death.

if Qube are still ordering locos then a 100G is still feasable for a set of wheels, with plenty of 80 and 442 poking about I reckon there is some hope for some 44cl power.
Somebody

I think you might be confused about how many 442's are still about - not many. One has been stripped for parts in Parkes to be scrapped, but aside from the operational ones, there are no spares lying around.

As for the 80's, you're right about there being plenty of those lying around, ready for the scrappers torch. Half of those are owned by Asciano though, so I doubt you'd find them willing to pass on parts to a competitor! Those owned by Greentrains might find themselves donating parts for the 44's, but that returns us to our original question...

...At what point does throwing thousands and thousands of dollars into clapped out, outdated technology  become throwing good money after bad?
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
If you overhaul the engine and buy some new wheels its not in the clapped out class and the four strokes are better on fuel than the 421 and 422 class.
How much did a 1100 class cost? Considering Qube stuck with its 600 class we might see a couple of green and gold 44s eventually.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
If you overhaul the engine and buy some new wheels its not in the clapped out class and the four strokes are better on fuel than the 421 and 422 class.
Junction box
How much have you extended the life on the unit by? You're just throwing good money into an old, outdated locomotive. I'm not comparing them to 421 Classes (mostly stored) or 422 Classes (aside from HL203 and for a brief period FL220, not used by Qube either).

How much did a 1100 class cost? Considering Qube stuck with its 600 class we might see a couple of green and gold 44s eventually.
Somebody
Qube do not own the 600 Class, they are owned by Greentrains, which is a leasing company.

You can hang onto your misty eyed nostalgia all you want, but the 44's days are numbered. They were withdrawn once, it was only by a miracle that they returned to our rails. Get your photos before they're gone, all the rationale in the world won't change the direction the big companies are heading, which is new motive power.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
PN still use 48 class which proves old motive power is still viable compared to nothing at all, each loco should be assessed on its mechanical condition and the viability of buying new parts not to mention each companies traffic demands.
The final twenty should be preserved in its entirety whether it be by their owners or historical societies for future use be it ballast trains or tourist lines, they are a great thing these pioneers are not sh1t boxes that are awaiting scrapping.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
PN still use 48 class which proves old motive power is still viable compared to nothing at all, each loco should be assessed on its mechanical condition and the viability of buying new parts not to mention each companies traffic demands.
The final twenty should be preaerved in its entirety whether it be by their owners or historical societies for future use be it ballast trains or tourist lines, they are a great thing these pioneers are not sh1t boxes that are awaiting scrapping.
Junction box

As with anything very old and mechanical, it takes a large bucket of money to keep it moving.
Unfortunately, not hopes and dreams.

Who should buy them off QUBE to preserve and then tip hundreds of thousands into them to keep them going?

We all would like to see old locomotives running about, but the reality is it can only go on so long, for reasons Railchase has more than needed to point out.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
I believe the days of 44s in commercial work are as good as over. Qube are beginning to store them, 5 are currently at Goulburn stored indefinitely. No they aren't for sale, but I wouldn't read anything into that.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
PN still use 48 class which proves old motive power is still viable compared to nothing at all, each loco should be assessed on its mechanical condition and the viability of buying new parts not to mention each companies traffic demands.
Junction box
PN are still using 48 Class because they NEED to use 48 Class on some of the more lightly laid branchlines around the state. If you were to see 48's hauling mainline coal, grain or container trains then your argument would carry weight, but they are almost always slaves to 81 Class when on the main lines, and are typically only used on the branches.

You've basically shot your own logic in the foot - if each locomotive should be assessed on the viability of buying new parts, then the 44's are done with!

The final twenty should be preaerved in its entirety whether it be by their owners or historical societies for future use be it ballast trains or tourist lines, they are a great thing these pioneers are not sh1t boxes that are awaiting scrapping.
Somebody
I'm sure Qube and the historical societies agree that, despite a large number of 44's already preserved, more money should be sunk into saving more of them. Meanwhile, some classes are barely, or not at all represented in preservation. Preservation societies don't have a bottomless pit of money, and if it meant the difference between saving a 422 and saving yet another 44, I know where I'd rather see my donations going.

Getting all misty eyed over a couple of old clunkers and making some random statements doesn't change the economic fact. As much as we love them, they're on the way out. You can either bleat about them staying in service, or you can get out there and make the most of the time you have left to see them.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
*SNIP*
You can either bleat about them staying in service, or you can get out there and make the most of the time you have left to see them.
Raichase
Or even go to a preservation mob and get dirty!  (If you don't already).
  wn514 Chief Commissioner

Location: at a skyhooks concert living in the 70's
PN still use 48 class which proves old motive power is still viable compared to nothing at all, each loco should be assessed on its mechanical condition and the viability of buying new parts not to mention each companies traffic demands.
The final twenty should be preserved in its entirety whether it be by their owners or historical societies for future use be it ballast trains or tourist lines, they are a great thing these pioneers are not sh1t boxes that are awaiting scrapping.
Junction box

ya see that is where you are wrong. they are sh1t boxes!!!
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Overlooked with all the rhetoric, 44's etc are near 60 years old, the crap thats come since haven't got a hope in hell of lasting that long, totally different build ethos back then, and a classic case for the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), the no tech loco's will at least attempt to keep going when things go wrong, everything built since gives up.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Overlooked with all the rhetoric, 44's etc are near 60 years old, the crap thats come since haven't got a hope in hell of lasting that long, totally different build ethos back then, and a classic case for the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), the no tech loco's will at least attempt to keep going when things go wrong, everything built since gives up.
alcoworldseries
I'm sure your theory carries weight in your own mind, but hows about you go tell the companies who are buying new motive power that. You think they're going to slap their forehead and say "oh, of course these new locos we're buying won't last sixty years. How silly of us. Better go refurbish the 44's and lash 'em up to please the train buffs". People need to pull their head out of their backsides and see the economic reality. It doesn't matter if the new locos won't last sixty years, they will last as long as the company needs them to last, at which point they will be replaced.

The important thing to remember here is the locos have not just lasted sixty years off their original construction. They've lasted sixty years because they've been forced to last for sixty years. They're always out of service getting repairs or work done, but they keep fixing them and forcing them back into service. They would have died a long time ago without money and plenty of repairs.

People can come up with whatever silly reasoning they want, old locos should have been scrapped years ago. Make the most of them whilst they're out, rather than coming up with "theories" as to why they'll stick around.

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