Sound and "Correct" Marker Lights in an Auscision A class

 
  N463 Locomotive Driver

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while, but haven't really had anything to say until now, so here goes...

I have an Auscision A class and want to fit sound to it. However, I also want the marker lights to work correctly (i.e. have the red lights only come on when it is running light loco).

I figure that this would require 6 functions (Headlight, White Markers and Red Markers at both ends).

So far I have thought of the following possibilities:
*M4 version of the Loksound (which the spec sheet lists as having 6 outputs)
*Non M4 Loksound (is there any way to use the "logic level" outputs to drive LEDs?)
*Non M4 Loksound & separate function only decoder

What are peoples thoughts on which would be the best way to proceed? Or should I try something else entierly?

Also how do the Loksound decoders handle the 4/6 outputs with a 8 pin plug? Are there extra wires that are not connected to the plug, or outputs not available on a 8 pin version?

Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.

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  Mansfield Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
A LokSound V4.0 8 pin decoder offers 6 lighting outputs. White, yellow, green and purple, plus Aux 3 & 4. Aux 3 and 4 must be direct wired off the decoder after local removal of the heatshrink material. As one would need to bin DC board and hardwire the decoder, the 8 pin plug becomes irrelevant.

Suggestions:
#1 end headlight - white wire
#2 end headlight - yellow wire
#1 end white marker - green wire (Aux 1)
#2 end white marker - purple wire (Aux 2)
#1 end red marker - Aux 3 solder pad on decoder
#2 end red marker - Aux 4 solder pad on decoder

#1 end is always with the battery box forward of the fuel tank on an EMD locomotive.

Check the LokSound manual for solder pad location on the ESU website.

All existing LEDs on the model are resistor protected, so you can direct wire from the decoder to the lighting PCBAs, i.e. no additional resistors are needed.

Don't trust red as being +ve and black as being -ve for the wiring, as the markers are actually reversed in polarity. Best to check each LED with a multimeter.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while, but haven't really had anything to say until now, so here goes...

I have an Auscision A class and want to fit sound to it. However, I also want the marker lights to work correctly (i.e. have the red lights only come on when it is running light loco).

I figure that this would require 6 functions (Headlight, White Markers and Red Markers at both ends).

So far I have thought of the following possibilities:
*M4 version of the Loksound (which the spec sheet lists as having 6 outputs)
*Non M4 Loksound (is there any way to use the "logic level" outputs to drive LEDs?)
*Non M4 Loksound & separate function only decoder

What are peoples thoughts on which would be the best way to proceed? Or should I try something else entierly?

Also how do the Loksound decoders handle the 4/6 outputs with a 8 pin plug? Are there extra wires that are not connected to the plug, or outputs not available on a 8 pin version?

Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.
N463

The alternative is a ZIMO MX645 sound decoder. It can handle up to 12 outputs, and comes with the 8 pin version with some extra wires, just wires or Plux versions. The down side is they have only a limited generic diesel sound set so you would need to buy a ZIMO MXULF sound down loader, and record you own sounds if you want the right GM sound. Doing this is not straight forward. There are now ZIMO manuals in English. I use ZIMO MX645 sound decoders for my H0 steam locomotives, but that's a different story.

Terry Flynn.
  N463 Locomotive Driver

A LokSound V4.0 8 pin decoder offers 6 lighting outputs. White, yellow, green and purple, plus Aux 3 & 4. Aux 3 and 4 must be direct wired off the decoder after local removal of the heatshrink material. As one would need to bin DC board and hardwire the decoder, the 8 pin plug becomes irrelevant.
Mansfield

Sorry about resurrecting this after so long, with too much time spent working, and not enough on trains. After purchasing a LokSound decoder last year,  I'm only just getting around to installing it.

Mansfield,

I've got the headlights working fine. The white market lights (AUX1/2) are also working fine.
But I'm running into trouble with the reds (AUX3/4). I can't get these to come on at all.
I've checked the wiring (many times) and I can't see any problems.

Are there any CV changes that I need to make to get the red lights working?
Is there anything else that I've missed?

N463
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Sorry about resurrecting this after so long, with too much time spent working, and not enough on trains. After purchasing a LokSound decoder last year,  I'm only just getting around to installing it.

Mansfield,

I've got the headlights working fine. The white market lights (AUX1/2) are also working fine.
But I'm running into trouble with the reds (AUX3/4). I can't get these to come on at all.
I've checked the wiring (many times) and I can't see any problems.

Are there any CV changes that I need to make to get the red lights working?
Is there anything else that I've missed?

N463
N463
Did you get your Aux 3 and 4 working yet?
I think Mike has been rather busy lately and may have missed your question. I should know the answer but for the life of me I cannot remember what I did Smile

Do you have decoder pro installed? Because in there you have to allocate functions. That is Function 1 is a bell on US engines, apart from National Rail we don't use bells so it is easy to make Function 1 sound on or off.
I seem to remember using a Digitrax PR3 and Decoder pro, moving functions about to accommodate the lighting functions.

As the red marker light (at least in Victoria went behind the Fireman only I overcome that problem by using a DCC Concepts
DCC Concepts  white and red led which have a Positive common (blue wire)
I put a heavy resistor on the white sides and allowed the red to be a little brighter. I just left the white lights on and turned the red on which overpowered the white on one side only
Cheers
Rod Young
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Sorry about resurrecting this after so long, with too much time spent working, and not enough on trains. After purchasing a LokSound decoder last year,  I'm only just getting around to installing it.

Mansfield,

I've got the headlights working fine. The white market lights (AUX1/2) are also working fine.
But I'm running into trouble with the reds (AUX3/4). I can't get these to come on at all.
I've checked the wiring (many times) and I can't see any problems.

Are there any CV changes that I need to make to get the red lights working?
Is there anything else that I've missed?

N463
N463
The Aux3/4 outputs of the LokSound are 'logic only' meaning they need additional circuitry to actually drive the LED. I believe ESU sell an additional module to allow you to use these outputs.

Paul
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
The Aux3/4 outputs of the LokSound are 'logic only' meaning they need additional circuitry to actually drive the LED. I believe ESU sell an additional module to allow you to use these outputs.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
A LED only really needs 10mA to light quite brightly, so connecting a LED with a 1K resistor in series should be OK. Logic driven outputs can usually sink or source that amount of current.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

A LED only really needs 10mA to light quite brightly, so connecting a LED with a 1K resistor in series should be OK. Logic driven outputs can usually sink or source that amount of current.
TheBlacksmith
How about you stick to motors and gears, Blacksmith...

From the ESU website:

"LokSound decoders with 21MTC interface have two additional outputs besides the 4 standard outputs, namely AUX3 and AUX4. Since they are pure „logic-outputs“, it is not possible to connect any external loads directly. External power transistors are required. Connect AUX3 and AUX4 via the interface"

They will not work without additional circuitry, regardless of what 'some' might tell you.

Paul
  N463 Locomotive Driver

Thanks for your input to everyone who has replied.

Did you get your Aux 3 and 4 working yet?
comtrain
Unfortunately, work commitments means that I have had no further time to look at this since my previous post.

Do you have decoder pro installed? Because in there you have to allocate functions. That is Function 1 is a bell on US engines, apart from National Rail we don't use bells so it is easy to make Function 1 sound on or off.
comtrain
No. So far all I have to program the decoder is a NCE PowerCab. In any event, none of the functions is a bell (I think Mike at DCC Sound may change the functions when he loads the sound files into the decoder???).


Since they are pure „logic-outputs“, it is not possible to connect any external loads directly. External power transistors are required. Connect AUX3 and AUX4 via the interface They will not work without additional circuitry, regardless of what 'some' might tell you.
FirstStopCentral
Do you (or anyone else) know what additional circuitry would be required? What would I have to insert between the solder pad on the decoder and the wires to Auscision's lighting board (the little ones with the marker LED's on them not the main one) which seems to already contain the resistors for the LED's.

N463
  PeltonPinch Locomotive Fireman

How about you stick to motors and gears, Blacksmith...

From the ESU website:

"LokSound decoders with 21MTC interface have two additional outputs besides the 4 standard outputs, namely AUX3 and AUX4. Since they are pure „logic-outputs“, it is not possible to connect any external loads directly. External power transistors are required. Connect AUX3 and AUX4 via the interface"

They will not work without additional circuitry, regardless of what 'some' might tell you.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
So, please share with us what the maximum current loading of these outputs is?
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

So, please share with us what the maximum current loading of these outputs is?
PeltonPinch
Can't find any documentation on the ESU website, but logic level outputs are normally in the range of 100uA to less than 1mA and commonly only at 5v or even 3.3v.

You cannot drive any load, output is just enough to bias a separate power transistor that actually switches the output load.

Paul
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
These little power amplifiers will solve the ESU logic output problem - http://www.dccsolutions.com.au/2-function-power-amplifier

There was circuit diagram floating around somewhere so you could make the amplifiers yourself. I will have a look for it when I have a little more time.

I have used them with great results.

Linton
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

These little power amplifiers will solve the ESU logic output problem - http://www.dccsolutions.com.au/2-function-power-amplifier

There was circuit diagram floating around somewhere so you could make the amplifiers yourself. I will have a look for it when I have a little more time.

I have used them with great results.

Linton
linton78
Solves the problem nicely, thanks Linton.

Paul
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Hi,

I just remembered that I have also used one of these ESU 21 pin adaptor boards in a Eureka CPH. It has the amplifier circuits on board to make use of aux 3 and aux 4 outputs.

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/accessories/adapterplatinen/21mtc-adapter-board-2/

Makes for a nice install when using 21 pin decoders, if space permits.

Works very well also.

Linton

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