Gunnedah NSW

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

Did a bit more research and this is a Whitton era thing, and note that Gunnedah was built in that era. Whitton rarely had the funds to duplicate, but planned and built with future expansion in mind.

If you look at major locations where the station was provided on the Up side, the “Through and Platform” layout was adopted. Some examples:
Singleton, Scone, Murrurundi, Tamworth, Armidale, Glen Innes, Tenterfield, Gunnedah, Wallerawang, Mittagong, Cootamundra, Wagga Wagga, Gundagai, Jerilderie.

Where a station was built on the down side the “Main and Loop” arrangement seems to have been preferred, eg Aberdeen, Quirindi, Moss Vale, Gunning, Narrandera, many others.

I’m struggling to find any instances of “Through and Platform” locations with the station on the Down side. Any suggestions?
NSWRcars

Not sure what you mean by the last sentence, are you looking at locations without a loop or other sidings, as you would find quite a few like that also with the through line or main at a huge proportion of locations as well.

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  a6et Minister for Railways

A station on the Down side located in a "loop" or "platform" road with turnouts - like all the examples quoted above on the Up side.
NSWRcars

Dungog, Stroud Road, Mt George, Wingham, Taree, Telegraph Point, Kempsey, Coffs Harbour, Glenreagh, South Grafton, Lismore, Murwillumbah.

Parkville, Wingen, Blandford, Willow Tree,  Werris Creek, Currabubulah, Duri, Nemingha, Kootingal, Woolbrook, Walcha Road, Kentucky, Uralla, Dumaresq, Black Mountainm Guyra, Ben Lomond, Deepwater,  Unanderra, Dapto, Queenbeyan, Perthville, Georges Plains, Wimbledon, Blayney, Orange, Nashdale, Borenore, Molong. Ben Bullen, Clandulla, Rylestone, Lue, Gulgong, Birriwa, Craboon, Dunedoo, Coonabarabran.

Just to name a few extra off the top of my head to consolidate the previous stations, but these are also not the only ones.  The Blayney - Cowra - Harden line also had several Carcoar, Woodstock, Koorawatha, Young as well as a couple of other smaller locations. Likewise several South of Junee as well.

In the end, if one was to look over the whole of the state, & what stations with loops etc existed even into say the end of the 60's the amount of stations that were on direct through main lines without the turnout into them, would probably be roughly the same in number for both down & up lines, that would include both main, secondary & branch lines.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Most of the stations you have named have the platform located on a straight through line, (Main or Through) not on the Loop or platform road.

Many also date from way after the Whitton era.
NSWRcars

That was the very point of my previous question.  Would I suggest that several of those that you have raised are no different either.

The aspect that you are also missing is the other point I made of how the station was situated in relation to the main town when each of the stations were built.  The other aspect is that several double line stations also used the primary platform for both down & up trains, using crossover working to access the platforms.

While the Whitton era had an impact on the NSW railways, so did those who followed, & each design & advance were beneficial to the state & location they were built.

The aspect of turning out into the platform road as found at Gunnedah, Boggabri, & the like is actually a stupid design & does no credit really to those who designed it.  In fact the setup at Curlewis, was just as crazy, why have a turn out for down trains to access the station, while the up trains did not have the turnout, at least that act of stupidity has been resolved today.

Anyway, I see no real relevance in trying to take this thread any further.
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

Summarised,
Whitton era stations were planned and laid out for double track.
Where initially built with single track only:
- the Main line followed the proposed Down alignment;
- At major locations the station building was provided on either Down or Up side, usually convenient to the town;
- Where the station was on the Down side it was laid out adjacent to the Main line i.e. the future Down track (example Quirindi);
- Where the station was on the Up side it was laid out facing a Platform road i.e. the future Up track, and a “Through” road was provided on the future Down alignment (example Gunnedah).
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Summarised,
Whitton era stations were planned and laid out for double track.
Where initially built with single track only:
- the Main line followed the proposed Down alignment;
- At major locations the station building was provided on either Down or Up side, usually convenient to the town;
- Where the station was on the Down side it was laid out adjacent to the Main line i.e. the future Down track (example Quirindi);
- Where the station was on the Up side it was laid out facing a Platform road i.e. the future Up track, and a “Through” road was provided on the future Down alignment (example Gunnedah).
NSWRcars


A disadvantage of the Through and Platform Road arrangement occurred when the layout was signalled as a "key locked loop" and non-stop trains were forced to use the X25 turnouts and crossovers to pass through the Platform Road. This applied to:
* Scone
* Gunnedah
* Riverstone
* and a few other places.

Even with CTC at Scone and Gunnedah, the route through the X25 crossovers remained.

Looking at Gunnedah and its CTC layout dated 2008, several anomalies remain:
* the Through and Platform roads are not actually named on the Circular's diagram.
* what are the unnamed Frame K sidings for?
* are the No1 and No2 Loco sidings still used for that purpose?
* are the No1 and No2 Goods sidings still used for wagonload goods traffic?
* Frame N and the Mobil Oil siding is still there, even though oil traffic has apparently gone?
* Frame L and the Stock siding is still there, awaiting no doubt resumption of cattle and sheep trains?

It was mentioned in another thread, that the Through Road is used for waggon storage, and has catchpoints on Frame H and Frame F, which protect the main lines from runaway stabled wagons.

Summarising, Gunnedah is a clumsy and illogical mess, and could be rationalised if unwanted facilities can be pruned.

The new crossing loop 1km past the station is 1300m long (not that the diagram specifically notes its length), and replaces the Through (Loop) at the station which is only of a short length, the not-to-scale diagram unhelpfully does not say what.

The X25 turnouts also restrict speeds across three Type F automatic level crossings.

Apparently it is better and easier to let RMS build overbridges than to expect ARTC to eliminate the X25 speeds through the platform road and thus reduce level crossing delays. Eh?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A new diagram dated 2010 shows the new Gunnedah with Through and Platform roads renamed Main and Loop respectively.


The Frame K pair of sidings are now given the name Manildra sidings.

The Frames L and M sidings is still there just in case it is needed for heavy livestock traffic.

Part of the Frame N sidings is no longer called an Oil siding, but could revert to this name should Oil Traffic resume.

The two Loco sidings are still there.

Three ground frame worked points are now power operated, 49. 51 and 52.

The fairly new North Loop is 1360m long, but no other siding is given a dimension.

A few signal may be ineptly drawn.
* GH3B probably has a Pulsating Yellow Band
* GH3A probably has a Yellow
* GH7 possibly should have a Yellow.
* GH4 and GH6 probably have a Yellow and/or Shunt
* GH14A probably has a Pulsating Yellow Band
* GH14B probably has a Yellow and Shunt.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A new diagram dated 2010 shows the new Gunnedah with Through (straight) and Platform (curved)
roads renamed Main (straight) and Loop (curved) respectively.

Frame G crossover has been abolished.

The Frame K pair of sidings are now given the name Manildra sidings.

The Frames L and M sidings (Stock Siding) is still there just in case it is needed for heavy livestock traffic.

Part of the Frame N sidings is no longer called an Oil siding, but could revert to this name should Oil Traffic resume.

The two Loco sidings are still there.

Three ground frame worked points are now power operated, 49. 51 and 52.

The fairly new North Loop is 1360m long, but no other siding is given a dimension. Such info is secret "Commercial in Confidence". The 2008 and 2010 diagrams do not seem to be drawn to scale.

A few signals may be ineptly drawn.
* GH3A probably has a Yellow (Down Home Main)
* GH3B probably has a Pulsating Yellow Band. (Down Home to Platform Loop & GH7)
* GH7 possibly should have a Yellow. (Down Starting from Platform Loop)
* GH4 and GH6 probably have a Yellow and/or Shunt (Up Starting from Main to GH2)
* GH14A probably has a Pulsating Yellow Band (Up Home to Platform Loop & GH4)
* GH14B probably has a Yellow and Shunt.  (Up Home Main & GH6)
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
FYI, for street map of Gunnedah, see: http://www.whereis.com/nsw/gunnedah-2380
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Hey there,

So I'm thinking of constructing a model railway based on Gunnedah however I can't seem to find any good detailed track plans ( with lengths and what not). I'd post this in the model section however it seems more appropriate in here. Any help would be great!
"flewy69er"


The newer 2008 and 2010 diagrams of Gunnedah are not drawn to scale, except for reporting the length of the new "North" loop which is about 1300m long.

The ARHS "Track & Signal" DVD Rom (cost about $70) has one "Working Sketch" number 633N dated 1933, which is to scale, IIRC 2 chains  = 1 inch or 1:1584. Start looking there. The WS sketch is a bit out of date, since some of the sidings and crossovers  have changed since 1933.

Gunnedah is a good place to model, because of its complicated but clumsy layout and lots of interesting detail.

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