Bayside Rail Project

 
  MtBeenak Train Controller

Not to mention the binning of five years engineering and planning work on Melbourne Metro for a back of an envelope job which conflicts with their own development plans for Montague, but the rail line to bring high rollers straight from the airport to the casino is another rant entirely...
HardSleeper

1.  The original Metro Tunnel proposal involved a cut and cover tunnel down the middle of Swanston St.  No-one noticed until the final stages when someone wondered how long the city would be divided in two and how many shops would be forced out of business during construction.  Even the noble ambition of public transport does not justify that much disruption and livelihoods lost.

2.  Seriously, how many high rollers are going to take public transport from the airport to the casino?  Now you are just showing your ignorance.  To quote Ted Hanson, "The thing about myths, is neatly summed up by Edward De Bono : A myth is a fixed way of looking at the world which cannot be destroyed because, looked at through the myth, all evidence supports the myth."

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  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I have this strange feeling that the East/West tunnel was first proposed by the Labor Goons way back a number of years ago, I need to do some shuffling, but these same nitwits want to tear up the contract.............MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM................
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
1. The original Metro Tunnel proposal involved a cut and cover tunnel down the middle of Swanston St. No-one noticed until the final stages when someone wondered how long the city would be divided in two and how many shops would be forced out of business during construction. Even the noble ambition of public transport does not justify that much disruption and livelihoods lost.

2. Seriously, how many high rollers are going to take public transport from the airport to the casino? Now you are just showing your ignorance. To quote Ted Hanson, "The thing about myths, is neatly summed up by Edward De Bono : A myth is a fixed way of looking at the world which cannot be destroyed because, looked at through the myth, all evidence supports the myth."
MtBeenak

Mt Beenak, who the hell does Cut and Cover for Modern Rail projects now? Not even NSW is doing that for their North West Link. They do what modern jurisdictions do, build a shaft then lower a TBM and build deep level tunnels. They do not build a dirty great trench.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Cut and cover is an older method over a century old . But in locations with no constraints on the surface cut and cover tunnels are inexpensive compared to other tunnelling techniques and still used if possible.
wxtre

True, but there is a constraint in Melbourne CBD, the massive disruption that it will cause in the Swanston Street area.


Michael
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I highly doubt that cut and cover will be possible heading down Swanston Street, as I'm sure the tunnels would be too deep, particularly at the southern end due to the need to get under the river.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I highly doubt that cut and cover will be possible heading down Swanston Street, as I'm sure the tunnels would be too deep, particularly at the southern end due to the need to get under the river.
railblogger

+1

This has been discussed before in another thread, it's likely that if built, the Swanston Street tunnels will need to be as deep as they're allowed to be so they can go underneath the Yarra without drama. Cut and cover was part of the smoke-screen that Denis Napthine used last year to rule the Labor-proposed Swanston Street route out but in reality it can't be built that way anyway.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
what time does it ruun on sunday
MrToastyy

X'Trap's only run in the morning peak at this stage. Check back later.

1. The original Metro Tunnel proposal involved a cut and cover tunnel down the middle of Swanston St. No-one noticed until the final stages when someone wondered how long the city would be divided in two and how many shops would be forced out of business during construction. Even the noble ambition of public transport does not justify that much disruption and livelihoods lost.
MtBeenak

There was NO, I repeat, NO plan for cut and cover down Swanston St in the original plan. Denis Crapthine just made that up as an excuse to cancel that project because it might have destroyed East-West Link's viability. And also so his American corporate mates can benefit from more land sales or something like that. Back to Swanston St, it was planned all along for a deep, bored tunnel beneath the city due to the Yarra River being in the way.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The Metro Tunnel would probably use the tunnel boring machine (TBM) construction method though some sections and the cut-and-cover construction method in others (i.e. Swanston Street).
wxtre

Mate, don_dunstan and I just suggested that the Swanston Street section could not possibly done by cut and cover due to the need to go beneath the Yarra. Cut and cover would only be possible between Melbourne Central and South Kensington as well as Domain and South Yarra where it's not so deep.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And also so his American corporate mates can benefit from more land sales or something like that.
Some rail man

Montague Street tunnel is basically a 'fix' to make sure that Fisherman's Bend doesn't end up being a slow-selling windy hole like Docklands was (still is?). They want to use public transport as a multi-billion dollar hook to get suckers into a new development because after all... property development is the ONLY game in town.
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

1. The original Metro Tunnel proposal involved a cut and cover tunnel down the middle of Swanston St. No-one noticed until the final stages when someone wondered how long the city would be divided in two and how many shops would be forced out of business during construction. Even the noble ambition of public transport does not justify that much disruption and livelihoods lost.
MtBeenak

That's rubbish. It was always to be a bore. Remember, it has to go under the Yarra, not through it. But even with bored tunnels, there needs to be site works above ground which means inconvenience. The MURL was a case in point. There was no cut and cover for the line, but there was for the station at Museum. The same might apply for Melbourne Metro, depending on where the interchange stations are. The idea of building something away from where it is needed because it might cause disruption is moronic. Why not build the East West road tunnel in Nar Nar Goon? But the Libs have no intention of building any rail infrastructure anyway, it is just their usual trick before an election which gets forgotten after the election - just like the $13 million Southland Station.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Someone please think of the poor tradesmen!

Seriously, why does the "but tradesmen's wont use it" argument keep coming up when it is obviously such a single-dimensional and dumb argument. Yes, we know tradespeople wont take the train to work, that's not the point. No one for a moment expects that they will. They can continue to use the freeway just fine.

The whole point of suburban heavy rail is to take off the road the traffic that can be removed: primarily single occupant cars going from the suburbs to the CBD for daily work. And guess what!? Trucks and tradespeople benefit too!

It is not that hard for people to understand if they are capable more than a superficial level of thought.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

I have also heard the line that the metro was going to be cut-and-cover from a few Liberal party sources now. The rusted on Liberal Party sheep/slaves/zombies are out peddling this insidious and evil lie.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I have also heard the line that the metro was going to be cut-and-cover from a few Liberal party sources now. The rusted on Liberal Party sheep/slaves/zombies are out peddling this insidious and evil lie.
Mr. Lane

That was the cover story designed to excuse their largesse towards needy property developers with close Liberal Party links. They knew full well that it couldn't be done as cut and cover but they used that as an excuse to turn a badly-needed infrastructure project into a pork barrel for 'mates'. Back-scratching and corruption in out state operates at a level that would make Sir Thomas Bent proud.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Montague Street tunnel is basically a 'fix' to make sure that Fisherman's Bend doesn't end up being a slow-selling windy hole like Docklands was (still is?). They want to use public transport as a multi-billion dollar hook to get suckers into a new development because after all... property development is the ONLY game in town.
don_dunstan

I must ask, why do all new areas have to be so close to the city anyway? Melbourne is a dead 9-5 city stuck in the 1950s and only caters for suits working for multi-billion-dollar corporations (most of which are not Australian-owned). Lose the "C" in CBD and start building more business districts away from Melbourne city. Tarneit or Rowville anyone? Or start building high-rise offices in the aptly-named Officer. Laughing
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I must ask, why do all new areas have to be so close to the city anyway? Melbourne is a dead 9-5 city stuck in the 1950s and only caters for suits working for multi-billion-dollar corporations (most of which are not Australian-owned). Lose the "C" in CBD and start building more business districts away from Melbourne city. Tarneit or Rowville anyone? Or start building high-rise offices in the aptly-named Officer. Laughing
Heihachi_73

The extreme level of building is (as Planning Minister Matthew Guy pointed out) historically unprecedented ... but it won't last. It gets concentrated around the CBD because that's where the services and the public transport is - any further out and you have to buy a car.

We have extremely low mortgage rates below 5%, unregulated and unchecked foreign monies pouring in to buy premium high end property all over the city and in some case finance and build their own developments with very little local involvement. Property development is currently the only growth industry in town - as reflected in the power of the developers to alter a multi-billion dollar train line to suit their agenda.

One thing you can be sure of - it won't last. It never does. The extreme levels of construction in our city are reminiscent of Spain or Ireland ten years ago - Las Vegas and California just before the bubble burst. By the time they actually try and build an underground line out to Montague the show will be over and there won't be demand on that scale again for another 20 or 30 years. There's going to be a lot of pain though - I was reading recently that about 16% of the ENTIRE WORKFORCE of this city is devoted to building development and construction.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
I must ask, why do all new areas have to be so close to the city anyway? Melbourne is a dead 9-5 city stuck in the 1950s and only caters for suits working for multi-billion-dollar corporations (most of which are not Australian-owned).
Heihachi_73

Australia is technically America in terms of roads, cars, fast food and greedy corporations that rule a country.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Update time for new stuff at stations as of Sunday November 16:
Parkdale: New LED lighting* + PID working on Platform 1
Aspendale: New LED lighting*
Edithvale: New LED lighting* + PID on Platform 1 waiting to be commissioned
Chelsea: New LED lighting*
Bonbeach: New LED lighting*
Seaford: New LED lighting* + PID on Platform 1 waiting to be commissioned

*Platforms only.
Don't know north of Parkdale of any new works due to me not having a good seat on the train
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
For all it's worth we have a London Tube-style 'all lines are running well' board at Toorak station now. No new lighting yet but apparently PSO's are immanent; they've been working on their office inside the station building itself rather than one of those visually unappealing 'pods'.

I really don't think they should spend money on PSO's at Toorak, it's not exactly a hotbed of trouble and I think (as I said earlier about Deer Park) it's just not a good use of resources to have them at every single station.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Update time for new stuff at stations as of Sunday November 16:
Parkdale: New LED lighting* + PID working on Platform 1
Aspendale: New LED lighting*
Edithvale: New LED lighting* + PID on Platform 1 waiting to be commissioned
Chelsea: New LED lighting*
Bonbeach: New LED lighting*
Seaford: New LED lighting* + PID on Platform 1 waiting to be commissioned

*Platforms only.
Don't know north of Parkdale of any new works due to me not having a good seat on the train
Some rail man

There's also some kind of new station entrance at Moorabbin leading onto Station Street which doesn't make architectural sense. Personally I'd be happy if they totally rebuild Moorabbin. Put it under a concrete deck stretching from Nepean Highway to South Rd with entrances at either end and east/west, and put a small shopping centre and bus interchange on top. At the moment that station is still a grotty mess.

However, cosmetic improvements to stations aside, there seems to be some work taking place that's actually railway related between Seaford & Kananook. From my observations I think it has something to do with the overheads - poles have been inserted in the ground near existing stanchions and I think new concrete foundations are being prepared. This work may also extend to Carrum where there are new buildings being constructed - possibly a substation? It's either this or signalling work.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Another Update at stations:
Highett: New LED lighting
Mordialloc: New refurbished toilets open
Carrum: Heaps of cabling wrapped around two light poles on platform 2, possibly for LED lighting.

Also, next gen barriers are now in use at Richmond station at the MCG exit (only half so far), the main entrance and the Stewart St exit.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
There's also some kind of new station entrance at Moorabbin leading onto Station Street which doesn't make architectural sense. Personally I'd be happy if they totally rebuild Moorabbin. Put it under a concrete deck stretching from Nepean Highway to South Rd with entrances at either end and east/west, and put a small shopping centre and bus interchange on top. At the moment that station is still a grotty mess.
jdekorte

I used that station on a regular basis several years ago - if there was ever an unattractive, dank, smelly toilet-stinking hole on the network it's that place.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I used that station on a regular basis several years ago - if there was ever an unattractive, dank, smelly toilet-stinking hole on the network it's that place.
don_dunstan

Moorabbin hasn't really been improved in design since the fire. All they did was clear the damaged buildings off the slab and put down a pre-fab thing.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Moorabbin hasn't really been improved in design since the fire. All they did was clear the damaged buildings off the slab and put down a pre-fab thing.
jdekorte

It's been years since I've been there, I wasn't aware that it burned down.  Must have done no end of improvement!
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

I'd get your photo's of the Xtrap on the Frankston line as soon as possible as after this Friday I don't suspect it'll be running that way any more.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'd get your photo's of the Xtrap on the Frankston line as soon as possible as after this Friday I don't suspect it'll be running that way any more.
Bullucked

Are you saying that the Xtrap's on the Frankston line before the election was purely a political stunt designed to make it look like something had happened?

I'm shocked!

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