Peco Streamline Track Spacing

 
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
What is the intended (by Peco) spacing between track centres on a Peco Streamline (code100 or 75) OO/H0 crossover?  Ie. what spacing between tracks do Peco Streamline OO/H0 turnouts give?

I don't usually work with Peco turnouts but I now have the need to build a staging yard ladder with some, I want the track spacing to be 45mm.  I am going to have to shorten the turnouts I have but I just want to calculate the right figure.  My gut feel is that I need to take 20mm off each join.

Mark

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  sol Assistant Commissioner

Location: Evanston Gardens SA
Mark, my Code 75 crossovers give track centres of  close to 51mm as they would normally be joined together.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Sol is correct Peco aim for a nominal 2" track spacing. I modified some stock Peco points (albeit code 83) for 40mm centres. I will take some photos tomorrow and try and recall how I did it. I practiced on some scrap code 100 points first, if I still have them I will photograph them too.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Hate to be a kill joy or a nuisance, but have you had a look at NMRA S8 Mark?  http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-8.pdf

According to that standard Peco without modification would be close to dimension M - "Preferred Minimum Track Center Distance for easy handling, coupling, yards, etc."  For HO that dimension is 2 1/16".

Please yourself if you want 45mm, just giving you something for consideration.

Best regards,
John
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Hate to be a kill joy or a nuisance, but have you had a look at NMRA S8 Mark?  http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-8.pdf

According to that standard Peco without modification would be close to dimension M - "Preferred Minimum Track Center Distance for easy handling, coupling, yards, etc."  For HO that dimension is 2 1/16".

Please yourself if you want 45mm, just giving you something for consideration.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell
John,
I am more inclined to follow VR standards in regard to track spacing rather than NMRA.  I don't care about clearance on curves, I don't have any double track curves (other than in staging where clearance is greater).  My closest tracks are 40mm apart and I have never had a side swipe.

Briefly considered, Mark.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

That sounds good to me. However, in staging yards you do normally need finger space. Is 45mm sufficient to access rolling stock with full tracks either side?
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
45mm spacing will be ok as long as one do not fiddle the trains. OK for storage of trains in a straight line. If there is a problem, we simply move a train either side. or if setting a train up you can do it on a single track section elsewhere.

Mark one method is to draw  two parrallel lines at 45mm spacing. then place the points over this. What would be useful would be a center line so you can roughly work out where to cut. You could draw in the 2nd rail at 16.5 if you wish.


Regards,
David Head
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
That sounds good to me. However, in staging yards you do normally need finger space. Is 45mm sufficient to access rolling stock with full tracks either side?
duttonbay
This is a club exhibition layout and we don't tend to fiddle with trains in staging, on the rare occasions that we do have a problem we will have to clear adjacent tracks.  That's a better option than one less track for us.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
45mm spacing will be ok as long as one do not fiddle the trains. OK for storage of trains in a straight line. If there is a problem, we simply move a train either side. or if setting a train up you can do it on a single track section elsewhere.

Mark one method is to draw  two parrallel lines at 45mm spacing. then place the points over this. What would be useful would be a center line so you can roughly work out where to cut. You could draw in the 2nd rail at 16.5 if you wish.


Regards,
David Head
dthead
I don't have to draw lines David, I found several tracks at Costerfield at 45mm spacing, I think I need to cut near to 40mm off each join.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

This is a club exhibition layout and we don't tend to fiddle with trains in staging, on the rare occasions that we do have a problem we will have to clear adjacent tracks. That's a better option than one less track for us.
LaidlayM
Fair enough. I understand your reasoning.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The NMRA are way too generous with their track centre guidelines if you're running AU prototype. As I said, I have modded points and another club member built me a scissor on 40mm centres, it's no big deal, everything passes just fine. I did flare the curve spacing somewhat, but that's not unusual, the prototype does this too, and it was to nothing like 50+mm.

To achieve the desired look and fit I am pretty sure I didn't cut the frog rails at all, I just cut the diverging stock rails and used rail joiners which I soldered in position to maintain the alignment. Then I used a razor saw to cut the diverging stock rail about where it began to curve to diverge for the isolation.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
As promised, here's the photo of the code 83 trackage on 40mm centres.

http://noarail.com/members/var/resizes/Aaron/NMRIPermanentLayout/Tram-Line/Peco%20Code%2083%20Points%20Modified%20for%2040mm%20Track%20Centre%20Spacing.JPG?m=1429938221

Unfortunately, at the moment I cannot seem to find my original practice attempt on the code 100. The isolation cuts are in a more retarded location than I thought, being cut into the frog rail rather than the diverging stock rail - they would have been cut with my finest razor saw.

I have left the check rails in, and the sleeper spacing is still near perfect, just one defective sleeper, but eventually the checks will come out and the sleepers will be buried under the 'concrete' fill which is still to be applied.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Fair enough.  I understand your reasoning.
duttonbay
I'm guessing that you noticed the staging for Reid's Flat is quite close also.

Mark
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
As promised, here's the photo of the code 83 trackage on 40mm centres.

http://noarail.com/members/var/resizes/Aaron/NMRIPermanentLayout/Tram-Line/Peco%20Code%2083%20Points%20Modified%20for%2040mm%20Track%20Centre%20Spacing.JPG?m=1429938221

Unfortunately, at the moment I cannot seem to find my original practice attempt on the code 100. The isolation cuts are in a more retarded location than I thought, being cut into the frog rail rather than the diverging stock rail - they would have been cut with my finest razor saw.

I have left the check rails in, and the sleeper spacing is still near perfect, just one defective sleeper, but eventually the checks will come out and the sleepers will be buried under the 'concrete' fill which is still to be applied.
Aaron
Thanks, I am trying to work out how much to remove mathematically.  I need to reduce the centres by 6mm but what's the angle of the crossings (frogs to some)?  I tried the Peco web site and it tells me 12 degrees but I need to confirm that.

Mark
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

Thanks, I am trying to work out how much to remove mathematically.  I need to reduce the centres by 6mm but what's the angle of the crossings (frogs to some)?  I tried the Peco web site and it tells me 12 degrees but I need to confirm that.

Mark
LaidlayM

According to their catalogues, all Peco Streamline HO/OO code 75 & 100 points (small, medium and large radius) use a 12 degree angle. They call this “clever geometry” as it allows mixing of curved and differing radius points.

Mathematically, to reduce the centres by 6 mm you need to cut a total of 29 mm out of the crossover.
6 mm / SIN 12 deg = 29 mm
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I used marking blue to mark up the rails, laid the points out overlapped to the desired centre and marked the ends of the frog rails on the opposing diverging stock rail. Then I simply razor sawed the mark, fitted tight fishplates and soldered the joins.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
According to their catalogues, all Peco Streamline HO/OO code 75 & 100 points (small, medium and large radius) use a 12 degree angle. They call this “clever geometry” as it allows mixing of curved and differing radius points.

Mathematically, to reduce the centres by 6 mm you need to cut a total of 29 mm out of the crossover.
6 mm / SIN 12 deg = 29 mm
NSWRcars
Thank you, exactly what I need.

Mark
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Thank you, exactly what I need.

Mark
LaidlayM
Mark,

If you want to check without cutting up anything expensive the Peco site has full size images of all turnouts available for download.  I used them when playing around with a design for putting some 12mm track on our club layout.  Just need to check you are printing at 100% and you can get an image that is useful to work with for checking the fit.

Best regards,
John
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
just fou8nd out the trackwork Mark is wanting to construct is a ladder not a crossover, ie from 1 track to  tracks. This will change how to cut the points. It does mena obly th straight sections of point have to be pruned.

Any ideas on this ?

Regards,
David Head
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

just fou8nd out the trackwork Mark is wanting to construct is a ladder not a crossover, ie from 1 track to  tracks. This will change how to cut the points. It does mena obly th straight sections of point have to be pruned.

Any ideas on this ?
dthead
You’ll still have to cut about 29mm between each set of points. I’d suggest cutting some off each end, because 29mm at one end would go too close to the point blades, or frog and check rails. Might also have to use short rail joiners!
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Might also have to use short rail joiners!
NSWRcars
Please explain.  I do not understand.  Genuine question - not trolling.

Best regards,
John
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Please explain.  I do not understand.  Genuine question - not trolling.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell


short rail joiners, ie not the full length ones yuo get in a pack, cut sgort so not to tsek  lot of space to minimise the sleepers cut......

I think.

Regards,
David Head
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
short rail joiners, ie not the full length ones yuo get in a pack, cut sgort so not to tsek  lot of space to minimise the sleepers cut......

I think.

Regards,
David Head
dthead
Thanks David,

That is about what I would think also.  It is a new concept to me since I have never heard anyone suggest cutting joiners before.

For Peco track I normally cut off the seat and spikes on the sleeper closes to the join.  That allows the joiner to be pushed between the rail and sleeper, then the sleepers can be slid up to the join to avoid having a fugly gap in sleepers.

My concerns with shortened joiners would be firstly how much use they might be.  Let us allow for a moment that the engineers at Peco settled on as close as possible to the most effective length of joiner.  Shorten at your own peril, risking vertical or lateral misalignment.  A second question is how to shorten the insulated joiners, and at least one end of the turnout you would want to fit insulated joiners (does anyone use Insulfrog theses days?  Not me.)  The insulated joiners have a divider in the centre, so it would mean cutting a bit off each end.

Anyhow not a big deal, except that I would suggest anyone contemplating cutting their joiners shorter think before doing it.

Best regards,
John
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Turnouts use a different plastic that is harder to work.  If I shorten the joiners I will solder the join solid to ensure long term alignment.

Mark
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
Thanks David,

That is about what I would think also.  It is a new concept to me since I have never heard anyone suggest cutting joiners before.

For Peco track I normally cut off the seat and spikes on the sleeper closes to the join.  That allows the joiner to be pushed between the rail and sleeper, then the sleepers can be slid up to the join to avoid having a fugly gap in sleepers.

My concerns with shortened joiners would be firstly how much use they might be.  Let us allow for a moment that the engineers at Peco settled on as close as possible to the most effective length of joiner.  Shorten at your own peril, risking vertical or lateral misalignment.  A second question is how to shorten the insulated joiners, and at least one end of the turnout you would want to fit insulated joiners (does anyone use Insulfrog theses days?  Not me.)  The insulated joiners have a divider in the centre, so it would mean cutting a bit off each end.

Anyhow not a big deal, except that I would suggest anyone contemplating cutting their joiners shorter think before doing it.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell


This reminds me of the story in my 'off road motorcyle, aka, dirt bike world' where a bloke was told he could improve his bike by making his handle bars 2" narrower, so he cut 2" of one side!!

Wayne

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