Genset syle setup, as an idea possibly ?

 
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Hello

Been following the various threads for years now and I have to admit it totally bamboozles me often. Im no Sparky  but understand engineering.

I'v been thinking for a while about a loco. What I have in mind at this stage  is more than likely a 2" scale VR Y class.  I'll probably run it on 7-1/4" so I suppose all these interpretations  on outside rails are something akin to a a 'narrow gauge' version! Smile

This wont be an overnight project  so happy to take it very slowly. Just happy to tinker in the garage for now.

Im thinking 1/6 scale in the vein of Y121 (@DVR )  but the seating design I might tackle differently.

My thoughts though go more to do with power train and control etc

I often come at things rather differently to many and I was thinking about powering the loco as a Diesel- Battery setup. In the same way current vogue  1:1 locos are being done.  i.e Gensets   In this instance a singular GENSET ?

Im thinking along the lines of simply using a small Diesel Gennie ( single cylinder ) to supply a bank of deep cycle batteries which in turn power the traction motors. Not dissimilar to the Hybrid cars.

I have a very good friend who is a VERY clever sparky ( in fact he did his apprenticeship with VR many moons ago )  who im hoping might help me along here   as he also like these things. Alas he like me hasnt built a loco before...so.....
I am interested in peoples thoughts. What appeals to me about this design it its effectively modular. Having said all of this it might not be a good idea at all. Its all very early and embryonic at this stage

thanks in advance for any feedback  and such
cheers
Richard

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  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Sounds like a good project. I assume one can do the maths. Can the genset top up the batteries more than the drain of operation?  Or while one  battery row are being used, will the genset  top up the other side... sort of thing.  It sounds interesting.

If in Melbourne I would seek a visit totheBox HillMiniature Railway as they have a project that may be of interest to you I believe.

Keep us imformed as you go, and remember theAME mag is always looking for articles of interest, and this is !

Regards,
David Head
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Now that small permanent magnet motors are both cheap and powerful you can be sure that you can build an adequately powered loco that would run from the batteries alone. Adding the diesel generator just means that the batteries will run longer between charges and that the loco will be heavier and so be able to pull a heavier train. Also the engine noise will be realistic - you won't need a sound system.

So go for it!
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Sounds like a good project. I assume one can do the maths. Can the genset top up the batteries more than the drain of operation?  Or while one  battery row are being used, will the genset  top up the other side... sort of thing.  It sounds interesting.

If in Melbourne I would seek a visit totheBox HillMiniature Railway as they have a project that may be of interest to you I believe.

Keep us imformed as you go, and remember theAME mag is always looking for articles of interest, and this is !

Regards,
David Head
dthead
Thanks David...I will...all of above..lol Smile

Again Ive no real idea just yet as to how it will work, only that it should..,in some sort of fashion. Well thats my guestimation

Much to learn.  I figure I will inherit the ease of electric control...but with a twist....We'll see Smile
cheers
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well a DVR member years ago advocated a AC electric loco. Many including myself poo pooed it as being highly unsafe.

But the member persisted and with a  fantastic builder, they produced  a AC powered loco. still petrol-electric ( or is it diesal, think it may be) - and it works VERY well.  Those at the AALS convention just gone would have seen it.  it was an  unpainted VR 3rd series "T" class loco.

So a Idea can be a great start !!!!

Regards,
David Head
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
David, are you in a position to expand on this 'project of interest' at Box Hill ?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

One way this could be done is to have a small AC Generator driving a switching regulated battery charger that say "floats" the batteries at 26.5 volts (a 24 volt system). The traction motors being as previously mentioned permanent magnet types driven by one of the DC motor controlers. With the setup as the above the generator would be on constant revs, its exhaust note though changing with the load. If one used the smallest Honda Invertor generator and switched it to fuel saving mode the engine would actual (I think) rev up under the load of the motors.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Cheers Woodford. You have me thinking in a different direction. Had thought to saturate the batteries but your suggestion suggests ( I think ) just enough generation...not too much ? Interesting
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Well a DVR member years ago advocated a AC electric loco. Many including myself poo pooed it as being highly unsafe.

But the member persisted and with a  fantastic builder, they produced  a AC powered loco. still petrol-electric ( or is it diesal, think it may be) - and it works VERY well.  Those at the AALS convention just gone would have seen it.  it was an  unpainted VR 3rd series "T" class loco.

So a Idea can be a great start !!!!

Regards,
David Head
dthead
A number of years ago, I put in a fairly big effort in my attempts to build a lower voltage 3 phase AC traction. In the end I had to give it away as its damn near impossible to go low voltage 3 phase motors although I had one company willing to rewire to lower voltage. But even if I stuck with 415VAC, the motors are industrial and the size is huge for the output.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Starting  the learning  curve  Smile

Been looking at the idea of 24v Dc motors. 2 per powered bogie.

Is there a real advantage with AC traction in 1:6 ?

Enjoying this little  journey ( while can ) . Realise a lot of stuff to learn and overcome. This is why im looking at a modular  attack at this.  I can deal with the problem in bits !!!

I like the notion a gennie might change note under load . Its really the effect im trying for.

For own use im contemplating  10-1/4 but with bogie exchange skinny trucks should it ever travel.  

Over next 6 months i intend to mockup the body and frame to get a feel for how it all goes together.

Whats a norm...or norms for pivot bearings etc

TIA Smile
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Whats a norm...or norms for pivot bearings etc

TIA Smile
SPSD40T2
I would think heavy-duty tapered roller bearings, the type used as thrust races.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Starting  the learning  curve  Smile

Been looking at the idea of 24v Dc motors. 2 per powered bogie.

Is there a real advantage with AC traction in 1:6 ?

Enjoying this little  journey ( while can ) . Realise a lot of stuff to learn and overcome. This is why im looking at a modular  attack at this.  I can deal with the problem in bits !!!

I like the notion a gennie might change note under load . Its really the effect im trying for.

For own use im contemplating  10-1/4 but with bogie exchange skinny trucks should it ever travel.  

Over next 6 months i intend to mockup the body and frame to get a feel for how it all goes together.

Whats a norm...or norms for pivot bearings etc

TIA Smile
SPSD40T2
Hi,
Is there a real advantage with AC traction in 1:6 ? No., even on 1:1 there is often minimal advantage.

Build what you want that fits within your budget. At the end of the day its all about the satisfaction of building your own loco. I've heard of guys who build locos, drive them around the track a few times, sweak here and there and then sell them to build the next one, just because that for them is the fun part. Others the fun part is driving.

Over last 10 years since I started to get serious, I started to learn to weld, I have learnt alot on technical side (but alot further to go if there is indeed an end) and enjoy readings and discussing with others, acquired alot of parts including machined parts from USA because it was alot cheaper including a brand new motor still waiting its first oil, but unfortunately my loco parts are in storage until we finish the expat thing.

For now my one major knowledge gap is how to fit the side rods on the cranks. I have off the shelf crank bolt from USa supplier, but not sure how to design the side rod.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Thanks for all the encouragement and heads up to date. Its going to be interesting  as it develops.  I'll post when anything of value.  My first thinkings to approach is to garner as much info as possible about the power-train , engines, motors, control etc. Soursec for Wheels  and some machining etc.

I will build a complete mockup. Most likely out of wood , just to see how it all goes together etc...  give me an idea of the 'room' i'm working with...and how to fit in it etc.

Im also probably  for my own use set it up to run on 10-1/4 as this  railway  hopefully  upon retirement/semi retirement  in 4-5 years, will be on a little bit of land and  I dont envisage much travel... But having said that the opposite is more than likely to occur, thats what happens isnt it ? lol

why 10-1/4 ? It just looks right to me , better represents to my eyes std/brd gauge in that scale  ( 1:6)

So am happy to hear from any other 10-1/4 " guys out there Smile

What I will do is develop the loco as one that can ride either 10's or 7's...i.e can be bogie xchanged out for what are effectively Narrow guage trucks..  is just about perfect for 3'6" isnt it Smile I'll probably build a bit of dual gauge track when the time comes Smile

I also figure there might be others possibly who would view this course as a possible solution to what they might like

again cheers

edit: bit more info

oh..and Im located Bayside Melb, if it was of interest

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