Topic moved from General by dthead on 10 Oct 2016 21:40
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
So 30 billion  (1.15b/15/2*780) is a decent ballpark figure to build a single tunnel from Sydney to Melbourne for a train like the North West line if the drilling conditions are the same. Although you want dead straight tunnel with maybe some very long high bridges over the Shoalhaven gorge all of which is absolutely airtight, using rolling which which hasn't been developed yet so has no amortization. Maybe start with the Hit hard base tunnel instead, which is through granite. 13 billion AUD for 57 km long twin tunnels. That gives you a figure of more like 90 billion for a single tunnel. For a conventional train limited to 250 km/h. Your 1000 km/h airtight canister will certainly be much more, if technically feasible, which is certainly isn't.

Sponsored advertisement

  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
That's Gothard Base Tunnel.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

That's Gothard Base Tunnel.
billybaxter
Billy


While it is good to have a good debate and even being the devils advocate there is no need for you to get cranky.


First I have to address some misconceptions you have with the refined Magtube concept.


It is three single tunnels between Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Parramatta with passing loops at the Albury and Canberra stations to allow trains with 20m carriages to provide a single seat ride from Melbourne to Sydney in one and a quarter hours.


I was aware of one side of Melbourne having hard basalt rock but until they decide where they would put a Magtube station down there it would be impossible to say how much they would drive through but overall the advance rates would be about the same as the NWRL and here is a good link http://home.agh.edu.pl/~cala/bieniawski/tbm2.pdf


There would be no bridges at all as it would go below everything.


In relation to the Gotthard Base Tunnel they did go from an average advance rate of about 10m per day to the best of 50m per day so I accept that the ground conditions make the world of difference even though TBM have come a long way in the last ten years and rates have been dropping 4% per year as China is building them in a big way now.


Ultimately it would be up to experts in geology, finance and even the political capital out of killing air traffic on this route.


You may be interested in these TBM records http://www.therobbinscompany.com/en/news-events/world-records/
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Do you think this concept could apply to intercontinental routes? With a 1000 km/h speed and chordal routes were looking at Sydney to London in 14 hours, LA  in 8, with all the advantages you mentioned plus no problems with weather.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Do you think this concept could apply to intercontinental routes? With a 1000 km/h speed and chordal routes were looking at Sydney to London in 14 hours, LA  in 8, with all the advantages you mentioned plus no problems with weather.
billybaxter
Yes I think it would be quite possible over time with steel undersea tubes anchored to the sea floor and who knows how fast they could go eventually but I do not think I would be around.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Chordal route, direct straight line, will go under the sea. Sydney to London may get a bit close to the molten core though. Will need excellent heat insulation.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Chordal route, direct straight line, will go under the sea. Sydney to London may get a bit close to the molten core though. Will need excellent heat insulation.
"billybaxter"
Might also make it a bit difficult for any of Eddy's rescue services to get there in an emergency.

Same old eddy; all platitudinous rambling and still no evidence from any person with any  form of expertise. Eddy, my son, it's time you were conferred with the Degree of Bachelor of Guesswork.
Please; face up to the fact that you are grasping at straws. You have no credibility in something which would be a monumental undertaking, and you consistently fail to produce one scrap of proper science (physics, geology, engineering et al)  or cost accounting/estimating.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

I think it is a waste of my time responding to you guys
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

As Malcolm Turnbull said on insiders when he first got the job any proposal has to not only be practically and economically viable it has to be acceptable to the public

Even though the idea of reducing the air resistance has been around for a very long time with b double trucks and sport cars and even limiting the speed of some trains it has not been economically viable until Magtube

Just watched an sbs show about confirmation bias vhere the only one who got it right was not an expert
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Just watched an sbs show about confirmation bias vhere the only one who got it right was not an expert
"eddyb"
No, Eddy; not the only one who got it right; the only one who agreed with you.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Obviously you never saw the show as that particular part was about American anti terrorism
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I didn't see it, but my comment stands. We've had a lot of time to watch you make statements without a shred of evidence to back them up.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

I didn't see it, but my comment stands. We've had a lot of time to watch you make statements without a shred of evidence to back them up.
Valvegear
And that is just what you did by commenting on a show that you had never even seen ha ha
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
He's right Eddy, you wriggle and shake like a greasy old snake, you do anything but actually answer questions people ask, and you've not provided a shred of evidence that anybody other than some top knob game playing so called Queenslander who fancies himself as an engineer considers your fantasy even remotely viable. The only links I've been able to find about this are about fantasy transport or seem to be the result of a first year uni brainstorming project where money is no problem. There's a comment in one of my previous links about the entire population of NY having to commute to LA every day, and vice versa for the system to be anywhere near profitable. I think they were generous. And when people here and at skyscrapercity etc. treat you like a moron you carry on like a petulant child.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

He's right Eddy, you wriggle and shake like a greasy old snake, you do anything but actually answer questions people ask, and you've not provided a shred of evidence that anybody other than some top knob game playing so called Queenslander who fancies himself as an engineer considers your fantasy even remotely viable. The only links I've been able to find about this are about fantasy transport or seem to be the result of a first year uni brainstorming project where money is no problem. There's a comment in one of my previous links about the entire population of NY having to commute to LA every day, and vice versa for the system to be anywhere near profitable. I think they were generous. And when people here and at skyscrapercity etc. treat you like a moron you carry on like a petulant child.
billybaxter
OK

Lets just start with economic viability

At the same cost per kilometer as the NWRL tunnels http://www.cimic.com.au/our-business/projects/north-west-rail-link it would cost $30b to drive three single tunnels Between Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Parramatta and as it would kill all air travel on that route http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/what-it-costs-to-put-a-plane-in-the-air/news-story/9cbcc476219d1275d154aa790aa45683 would be guaranteed $1b p/a income so now when governments can borrow at extremely low ten year interest rates https://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/japan-10-year-bond-yield would be the best time to start and the RBA would back it as our AAA rating would not change as it increases productivity rather than just another hospital.

You say it would be harder than driving through sandstone but what a great opportunity to give Terratec the opportunity to design a TBM that could drive through anything and be the best in the world rather than going to China which I think will eventually happen   http://www.tunneltalk.com/Company-News-23Feb2017-Terratec-opens-new-large-diameter-TBM-plant.php
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Like fighting windmills. Again; your tunnel costs are just an extrapolation km per km of the nw railway costs. Unless you plan to use exactly the same style of railway I can't see the relevance. Find some figures for the chuo shinkansen and extrapolate from that instead. But I'm guessing they won't fit your agenda. You won't kill flights between the two cities and why would you want to? Everybody in the east will find Mascot more convenient, the two transfers on your system are a PITA, there are transfer passengers etc. One of your links states the cost of running a flight at 95% of revenue, so paying back the initial cost, if it's as low as you think, will be more like 600 years than 30. Hospitals contribute to productivity as they make sick people productive again. Your project will add nothing to transport capacity than already exists. It's cheaper to build more housing estates on the edge of Sydney and Melbourne and invest in decent MSR than your scheme. Drop this stupid idea and move on.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Like fighting windmills. Again; your tunnel costs are just an extrapolation km per km of the nw railway costs. Unless you plan to use exactly the same style of railway I can't see the relevance. Find some figures for the chuo shinkansen and extrapolate from that instead. But I'm guessing they won't fit your agenda. You won't kill flights between the two cities and why would you want to? Everybody in the east will find Mascot more convenient, the two transfers on your system are a PITA, there are transfer passengers etc. One of your links states the cost of running a flight at 95% of revenue, so paying back the initial cost, if it's as low as you think, will be more like 600 years than 30. Hospitals contribute to productivity as they make sick people productive again. Your project will add nothing to transport capacity than already exists. It's cheaper to build more housing estates on the edge of Sydney and Melbourne and invest in decent MSR than your scheme. Drop this stupid idea and move on.
billybaxter
Thanks to you I realised it needed carriages at stations and this enabled passing loops that now give a one and a quarter hour one seat ride between Sydney and Melbourne every 15 minutes with 15 minutes in stations so people who are getting off/on have plenty of time.

According to this 9 trillion Japanese yen is about AU $105b http://au.advfn.com/p.php?pid=fxcalculate&action=convert&amount=9000000000000&from=JPY&to=AUD&btn=Convert


But they are building twice the size tunnels in the shape of a horseshoe with slow old drill and blast with portals where they have to exit these tunnels and build bridges also in Japan the land owner owns everything below them where in Australia we only own the top bit.


Therefore it is far better to compare the same tunnels built in the same country so I stick with my $30b costing.


It is true that it may take 30 years to recover the money but as capacity is unlimited there will be an increase in income.


This is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev Japanese have been partners with CLARA since 2015 so no wonder they would not want cheap Magtube.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Ah, yes, it's a conspiracy now. No doubt this project would be well under way if it weren't for a conspiracy. Don't write to Prince Charles about it, as a said before. His mum's one of those shape shifting lizards, and so is he, so you'll be in real trouble. Maybe we can contact the aliens on one of those seven planets discovered last week and borrow some of their superior drilling technology, much more advanced than old fusty drill and blast, which is controlled by Masons anyway. Still, dead straight lines, chords route, the platforms will be at a slight angle to each other, maybe 12°, people will feel seasick crossing the platform. And with one tube capacity is not unlimited. It will be limited to one trip per hour. And 600 years to recover costs, not 30.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Obviously you do not read what I write
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Hyperloop could not work due to capacity, expansion and g force.

Clara could not work with our small immigration policy.

Magtube would work as Japan has ten year bond rates at zilch so this is the latest email I sent to the Japanese prime minister.

Hi


Drive three single 6m diameter tunnels by TBM between Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Sydney with exhaust valves either end of each so once air density had been reduced a 5.6m wide large capacity train could reach 1,000 kph when in them.


It would cost $35b with a guaranteed $1b per year income as air travel could not compete on that route with price, comfort and reliability so really it all comes down to interest rates over the ten years it would take to build it.


I do not think there would be sufficient value capture in CLARA to recover the $200b with the strict Australian immigration rules however there is already $1b in air fares between these capitals plus there would be opportunity for value capture at Albury and Canberra.


Seven trains with four in stations for 15 minutes while three are in the tunnels would give a one seat ride end to end of one and a quarter hours.


I cannot see Australia having any problem with Japan building and owning them and once it has been proven better than air travel the technology could be exported anywhere there is sufficient demand.


Regards Eddy Barnett
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Three single tubes = maximum three trains, not seven as there is nowhere to pass. It will not be reliable as a breakdown in any one tube will mean the Sydney Melbourne service, your bread and butter, stops. Planes can be diverted to another nearby airport (Avalon, Badgerys), or taken from another line and service continued. One of your tubes gets blocked and those in it are stuck and it's bustitution for that sector. The Japanese PM doesn't read your emails, and is not in charge of a civil engineering company. Write to the head of whoever builds nuclear power plants in Japan, they're probably looking for a bit of work write now.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
And a car yard is being built on the site of your proposed Parramatta station, so forget that plan and move the station to somewhere sensible like Sydney.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

And a car yard is being built on the site of your proposed Parramatta station, so forget that plan and move the station to somewhere sensible like Sydney.
billybaxter
It is easier to drive a future northern Magtube below Parramatta river than beneath the harbour and anyway Parramatta is the centre of greater Sydney.


Seven trains with passing loops at stations allow a one seat ride in one and a quarter hours end to end.


I think people would come from all over the globe to experience the fastest train in the world.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Show us a timetable that fits seven trains on single tubes, with passing loops at stations. You shouldn't start an email to the Japanese PM with 'Hi'. He's not your mate.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Nightfire, Pressman

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.