Topic moved from General by dthead on 10 Oct 2016 21:40
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

The only way politicians would ever know what the majority of the public think is to ask them rather than listening to the noisy minority.

You obviously would vote no to Magtube but I think a lot of people would love to have Albury 15 minutes from Melbourne and Canberra 15 minutes from Sydney as well as improving the economy but that is only what I think

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  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
People who want to be 15 minutes from Sydney or Melbourne can just live in Strathfield or Chatswood, or Caulfield or Sunshine. No need to build this claustrophobic tin can getting sucked by magnets.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

People who want to be 15 minutes from Sydney or Melbourne can just live in Strathfield or Chatswood, or Caulfield or Sunshine. No need to build this claustrophobic tin can getting sucked by magnets.
billybaxter
Thanks for bringing that up so I can explain why.


If people are attracted to Canberra and Albury with work building Magtube it would stabilise house prices at Strathfield etc. as well as killing air traffic on the Sydney/Melbourne route.


As it would be nearly twice as wide as a conventional train it would be no more claustrophobic than a big plane and may even be made of the same material.


The German maglev uses magnets to attract but needs sensors to control the very small air gap but the superior Japanese maglev which I think should be used with Magtube uses magnets to repel and obtains a 10cm gap without sensors.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
It could be ten times as wide, but as long as it's underground for so long it'll be claustrophobic. A claustrophobic freaks about being smothered from above and being buried. You need to make it at least 12 metres high with Swedish style imitation daylight walls and tromp-d-oeil ceilings to avoid this problem. You should design it to be 2 metres wide, very very long and 12 m high.

Why the kill-the-planes obsession?

Where is your promised site? If you can't get that up nobody will be interested. Massive marketing opportunity going to waste. Put your efforts into this. Plenty of free hosting sites available.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

It could be ten times as wide, but as long as it's underground for so long it'll be claustrophobic. A claustrophobic freaks about being smothered from above and being buried. You need to make it at least 12 metres high with Swedish style imitation daylight walls and tromp-d-oeil ceilings to avoid this problem. You should design it to be 2 metres wide, very very long and 12 m high.

Why the kill-the-planes obsession?

Where is your promised site? If you can't get that up nobody will be interested. Massive marketing opportunity going to waste. Put your efforts into this. Plenty of free hosting sites available.
billybaxter
People were and still are scared of planes but once they had proven themselves safer than a car people use them as they are so time saving.


Over a hundred and forty thousand passengers have ridden on the SCMAGLEV at the Yamanashi Maglev Test Line at very high speeds, for a cumulative distance of over 545,000 miles http://www.usjmaglev.com/usjmaglev/FAQs.html

This an American/Japanese proposal but from what I have heard they are not interested in it so it is our golden opportunity to get a ten year no interest loan to build it so they can showcase their technology.


It needs to kill air travel on this route to get a guaranteed $2b per year in ten years.


Son in law has a new computer for me but he is very busy and when I get it I will be able to download my 3d model of it at a station.


In the meantime people can Google Magtube and down the bottom is what you and I are discussing here on Railpage.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
So in 20 years it's gone from a 18.4 km test track to a 18.4 km test track, and 140,000 passengers over the same period, which averages to about 20 a day. Should tell you something, but I bet it doesn't.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

So in 20 years it's gone from a 18.4 km test track to a 18.4 km test track, and 140,000 passengers over the same period, which averages to about 20 a day. Should tell you something, but I bet it doesn't.
billybaxter
Sorry about the old link this might be better where they made it 42km in 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev


It is a bit arrogant of me to say this but I believe the future for Maglev is in pressure reduced tunnels in straight lines at 1,000kph and capturing all those who currently travel by air on busy routes.

Easy to reduce the tunnel pressure by just having an exhaust valve either end of each tunnel, running the segmental linings through stations and fitting air doors to either side of each station.

With 15 minutes in each station and only one minute to bring the segmental lining to atmospheric pressure so inner and outer doors can open there is plenty of time.


Going around the world like America and CLARA in Australia would not be an economical proposition in my opinion as they need to have twice the tunnels costing twice as much with no guaranteed income


Also in America they want to use steel rails so freight trains can also use it even though the freight people say it would make life hard for them.


After Japan has been knocked back on their big open tunnels around the world they may be desperate enough to give us the ten year interest free loan to showcase their maglev technology between Sydney and Melbourne.

By the way any reference to Maglev has been banned from anywhere but here so I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you Billy
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
What discussion? It's just been you blabbering on about an absolutely crackpot idea, a few people pointing out some of the more obvious problems and asking you to respond to those points, then you either refusing to address the questions or just saying  it has to be true because you think it is. Your idea is technically impossible (and even if you could build it would cost much more money than we have, draining it away from essential services like health, education, defence and policing, then would lose money hand over fist unless we could find millions of people prepared to stump up hundreds of dollars for a one way ticket), doesn't meet any demand , has no record of any feasibility beyond a fairground attraction, and nobody anywhere will be prepared to put up any financing.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Billy sorry that you did not get it.

The reason it would not cost us a cent is that it would need an interest free loan for ten years while it is being built and after that it would be economically viable by being far better than air on this route and killing it.

I believe that Japan would do this to showcase their technology to the world as being limited to 500kph by the atmosphere and costing so much more than conventional rail which freight trains can also use nobody would choose it also the Chinese may beat them in developing 1,000kph reduced atmosphere tunnels.

Thanks once again for pointing out a few problems that I have now addressed.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
The reason it would not cost us a cent is that it would need an interest free loan for ten years while it is being built and after that it would be economically viable by being far better than air on this route and killing it.
"eddyb"
Thanks a million eddy. That is the most hysterically funny thing you have written in a long time.
Please; let me know where squillion dollar loans are interest-free and I'll be there like a flash.
You believe that the Japs would do it.
If you believe it, then it must be true, despite what billy and I have repeatedly said about your beliefs being a long way short of any standard of proof.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

The reason it would not cost us a cent is that it would need an interest free loan for ten years while it is being built and after that it would be economically viable by being far better than air on this route and killing it.
Thanks a million eddy. That is the most hysterically funny thing you have written in a long time.
Please; let me know where squillion dollar loans are interest-free and I'll be there like a flash.
You believe that the Japs would do it.
If you believe it, then it must be true, despite what billy and I have repeatedly said about your beliefs being a long way short of any standard of proof.
Valvegear
Japanese bond rates https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/japan

If Japanese don't the Chinese may because nobody thinks running trains at 500kph is worth the extra cost.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Japanese bond rates
"eddyb"
No relevance whatsoever to the question of interest-free loans.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Recently Japan would pay people to look after their money so as their Maglev is restricted to 500kph by the atmosphere it is not worth the extra cost over wheels so I believe that if they have an opportunity to showcase a 1,000kph train using their Maglev they may make the interest free loan.

If they don't then China will develop it as it has the big distances like Australia.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
If they don't then China will develop it as it has the big distances like Australia.
"eddyb"
It may have escaped your notice that China's population has one or two more people than Australia's.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

If they don't then China will develop it as it has the big distances like Australia.
It may have escaped your notice that China's population has one or two more people than Australia's.
Valvegear
Yes I had noticed that and it only makes Magtube more economically viable
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
How will you make sure nobody gets a bomb on board? And don't say nobody would do that. Probably don't even need a bomb, just a jerrycan of petrol emptied on the floor, crack a match and .... hundreds of deaths! Any fire is going to quickly use up the oxygen in the tube and there'll be none outside in the vacuum tunnel. I guess you could solve that problem by saying it wont happen. Couldn't happen if you say it can't eh eddy. Maybe even a crowbar to force the doors open and expose everybody to the vacuum? I can't see how you'll get around this one without having full bag and body searches, hence minimum check in times similar to domestic flights. Can you just run through the funding part again? From what I see, you're omitting the part where the Japanese will want you to pay back the capital part of the thirty five billion dollar loan. The might forego interest but they'll certainly want the thirty five billion back.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

How will you make sure nobody gets a bomb on board? And don't say nobody would do that. Probably don't even need a bomb, just a jerrycan of petrol emptied on the floor, crack a match and .... hundreds of deaths! Any fire is going to quickly use up the oxygen in the tube and there'll be none outside in the vacuum tunnel. I guess you could solve that problem by saying it wont happen. Couldn't happen if you say it can't eh eddy. Maybe even a crowbar to force the doors open and expose everybody to the vacuum? I can't see how you'll get around this one without having full bag and body searches, hence minimum check in times similar to domestic flights. Can you just run through the funding part again? From what I see, you're omitting the part where the Japanese will want you to pay back the capital part of the thirty five billion dollar loan. The might forego interest but they'll certainly want the thirty five billion back.
billybaxter


Some people want attention and they don’t care how they get it and there is such a thing as a “celebrity terrorist” and perhaps the best thing would be to give them no publicity at all and anyway if any group claims responsibility it only makes them look worse.

There has to be a balance between security and freedom so perhaps as the train would be in stations 15 minutes any bags over a certain weight could be inspected or put in a baggage carriage or maybe build an extra bomb proof partition with a door in the middle of each carriage to limit to 100 people directly exposed.

Funding depends on if the public thinks it would work or not and indicate that in a separate vote at the marriage plebiscite then politicians would investigate it further and if viable borrow the money off Japan to build it.

As the atmospheric Japanese Maglev is not worth the extra cost just for an extra 100kph nobody wants it so they would be keen to have somewhere to showcase their technology at 1,000kph but if not perhaps the Chinese but I think the Chinese will make a Magtube in their own country.

The $2b guaranteed income may or may not cover the interest let alone the principle but many things have been paid for by the government to improve productivity and take pressure off Sydney, Melbourne so they could always just print the money as we have our own currency.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Yes I had noticed that and it only makes Magtube more economically viable
"eddyb"
So fewer users will generate more revenue, eh? Your engineering doesn't stack up, and now your economics are no good either.

The $2b guaranteed income may or may not cover the interest let alone the principle
"eddyb"
Gee, what happened to the interest-free loan, eddy? By the way, that's principal.

many things have been paid for by the government to improve productivity and take pressure off Sydney, Melbourne so they could always just print the money as we have our own currency.
"eddyb"
Wow! Heaps of lovely Monopoly money with no value whatsoever. Stay away from Economics, old son; you're getting further into deep waters.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

If they don't then China will develop it as it has the big distances like Australia.
It may have escaped your notice that China's population has one or two more people than Australia's.
Valvegear

More people using Magtube over there would make it more economically viable and I do not understand what you mean.


The interest free loan would only be for the ten years while under construction and then Magtube would have a guaranteed $2b per year income.


You are right about principal http://www.diffen.com/difference/Principal_vs_Principle


America, England and Japan are printing money and if it is done to increase productivity rather than free beer then it is OK but it needs great wisdom to avoid inflation.


Even economic experts have great differences of opinion so it stands to reason us little guys would too.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I do not understand what you mean.
"eddyb"
I know; that's the problem.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

When I said the Chinese would build it first if the Japanese didn't you pointed out there were a lot of people in China in case I had not noticed or in other words it would not work there.


I said that is better for the economic viability of Magtube over there and you said I did not understand economics.


Mate, we both agree on the fact that more users the better so we can leave it there.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Maybe just forget about the loan and print the whole lot? Doesn't matter how much it costs then, just print a bit more. Now with electronic banking, we won't even have the printing costs, just bang a few zeros on everybody's account. Or we could just round up all the dole bludgers , make them do a bit of work for dole and whip them senseless if they don't do the job properly. Typically, you've tried to sweep the security question under the carpet. Most suicide bombers aren't in it for the fame, they want to die and take as many of the enemy out as possible, and your ridiculous magtube  would be a golden opportunity to cause havoc. Claiming responsibility  doesn't make a group look worse in the eyes of this lot, it makes them look serious, and very very attractive. A success, which magtube would hand them on a plate, attracts more recruits. How are you going to 'say nothing' about the first bomb? Do you think journalists,  family of the dead, rescue crews etc. will just shut up about it? With Magtube, it not if, but when a major terrorist act takes place. Connecting it to Gaydon Marriage will just encourage these loons.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Well Australia could print the whole lot as is needed but some say it risks our AAA rating where others say as long as it increases productivity it would not and then there is the political capital to think about and many Australians would be scared of inflation and vote against whatever government wanted to do it.


As Japan is stuck not being able to sell the atmospheric Maglev as it is not much faster than wheels and a lot more expensive they may print some and loan it to us interest free for ten years but no Australian government would even consider asking them for it if they thought everybody felt like you.


There is very little anybody can do to protect society from nuts so we just try to do our best and that is with planes, trains, etc. you can be walking down the footpath and some idiot could run you over on purpose.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Or we could just round up all the dole bludgers , make them do a bit of work for dole and whip them senseless if they don't do the job properly.
billybaxter
I understand the Chinese have a great deal of experience with applying this strategy to the building of railways.

We could just stick an extra $20B on the tab we already have with them.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Better still, just print off $20 billion in fresh hundreds and give them that.

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