Running Carlingford line at 30 minute frequency

 
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Epping to Parramatta was dead and buried when Labor cancelled the Parramatta to Chatswood railway (PCRL) for the Epping to Chatswood railway (ECRL). The NW metro will never run to Parramatta from Epping and any new rail system along the Victoria road corridor will follow Victoria road exactly and connect with the northern line at west Ryde and not Epping.

The western metro will be going west via the bays precinct, north Strathfield or concord west, Olympic park, Rosehill and then Parramatta. The latest bit of gossip is that the western Metro might actually have 4 tracks with an express airport service and an all stopper service in tunnels running side by side.

The Dundas route has no hope due to destruction of brush farm park to build that option. For the amount of people using the Epping to Parramatta route the bus is more then sufficient to handle the numbers.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Epping to Parramatta was dead and buried when Labor cancelled the Parramatta to Chatswood railway (PCRL) for the Epping to Chatswood railway (ECRL). The NW metro will never run to Parramatta from Epping and any new rail system along the Victoria road corridor will follow Victoria road exactly and connect with the northern line at west Ryde and not Epping.

The western metro will be going west via the bays precinct, north Strathfield or concord west, Olympic park, Rosehill and then Parramatta. The latest bit of gossip is that the western Metro might actually have 4 tracks with an express airport service and an all stopper service in tunnels running side by side.

The Dundas route has no hope due to destruction of brush farm park to build that option. For the amount of people using the Epping to Parramatta route the bus is more then sufficient to handle the numbers.
simstrain
I'll put money on there being just 1 pair of tracks, there won't be a need for an Airport train to BC until beyond 2035 maybe even 2040 and connection from Leppington maybe prove to be the better route.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Leppington will most likely be connected but a dedicated express from central to BC is looking more and more necessary as well. BC isn't going to need just 1 rail line. It is going to need several lines to connect western Sydney as well as the other parts of Sydney. There is currently no direct Leppington trains to Central via east hills and come later this year when cumberland line trains start getting diverted to Leppington and more Campbelltown via Sydenham services there will be no room at all for any future airport trains via this route. Instead the leppington line will only be able to support trains to the airport from liverpool and the cumberland line.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Leppington will most likely be connected but a dedicated express from central to BC is looking more and more necessary as well. BC isn't going to need just 1 rail line. It is going to need several lines to connect western Sydney as well as the other parts of Sydney. There is currently no direct Leppington trains to Central via east hills and come later this year when cumberland line trains start getting diverted to Leppington and more Campbelltown via Sydenham services there will be no room at all for any future airport trains via this route. Instead the leppington line will only be able to support trains to the airport from liverpool and the cumberland line.
simstrain

As far as BC is concerned, the hype on this project is beyond belief and you are best advised to avoid.

Its a 2ndry airport due to open in 2026. Like many other cities with multiple airports where a 2nd was built to deal with overflow capacity, growth will slow as preference for major airlines will continue to be Mascot.

Yes there will be flights typically targeting the western population which is not insignificant at 1-2million (or what ever), but the airline industry loves hub and spoke and so do the majority of passengers. Mascot is the gateway airport for Australia, hence people fly to mascot then to international, this won't change. Mascot is also closest to where most of business operates, this won't change. Look at Canberra, cannot maintain regular international flights as people go to Sydney to fly internationally. Gold Coast is the same.

The main growth for BC is freight as it gets kicked out of Mascot, discount flights to NZ, GC, Melbourne and potentially South Pacific. Regular operations by the mainstream carriers will be limited and growth slow. They may even do what happens in UAE, where the two major competing carriers, one based in Abu Dhabi and the other Dubai, they run free buses/coach into each others home city for EC, and limo's for BC and FC and they are 100km apart.

Dubai has a 2nd airport (DWC), opened in 2012-13, freight, then discount airlines and the odd main stream carrier (mostly the currently black banned Qatar Airlines). The growth of Dubai airport (DXB) is largest in world and its one, yet the 2nd airport (DWC) on other side of the rapidly growing city (I'm talking real growth not Australian population growth) after 6 years would be lucky to match the GC airport traffic. Emirates is being forced to move there in 2025.

Back to the trains in Sydney to BC.
Assuming there is no or little suburban driven need in the BC area, 2035 is an optimistic time to expect the need for an railway. If you don't believe Epping to Paramatta deserves a railway and buses will do, then BC Airport certainly doesn't need a taxpayer funded railway between now and probably 1/4 of us leaving the planet (ie 2040-2050).

Additionally it certainly won't need multiple lines. Melbourne is struggling to make the numbers stack up, how is BC going to be any better?

Going via Leppington is the most obvious choice because it at least connects the city and the two airports in one movement, if the Y-link is running from Leppington and beyond then, you now have the service to Paramatta and up to Richmond, connection to NW Metro and North. Capacity shouldn't be an issue unless things change dramatically out west. The line can support 20t/hr and nothing what you said above indicates 20t/hr is likely to come about in next 30 years.

Back to the City West Metro
As I said, it will be designed and built for City to Paramatta needs, any reference or n built capacity for the BC airport will be quietly opted out once reality ie money kicks in, because that's how these major projects roll. To keep the public on side there will be loose references "built for extension to BC". Which the Project and govt all know in 20 years time would have been taken by other more worthy projects or simply not built at all as no one will remember or care.

EDIT:
I used Prague airport this year. 15m people use this airport annually, nearly 40% of Mascot, 15km from city centre but a few km off the commuter railway line services. We caught the well signed bus connection from the city (arrived by train from Austria so, not a case of back tracking our steps). I think this will work for BC for many many years.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This rhetoric you here from me on this forum is not my wants or needs but they are coming from information sessions around Sydney that I attend. The trip numbers from Parramatta to Epping are not my numbers but those from opal data collected by the government. Opal has been a boon for the NSW Government in finding out where trips are being made. Parramatta to Epping is dead and buried. It wasn't even this government which killed it.

The light rail for Carlingford will improve public transport in this area significantly. They will finally be able to use the rail line to go to Parramatta which is where most people actually want to go from this area. All of these ideas you suggest are old thinking from the 80's and 90's and no longer equate to Sydney in 2017.

Melbourne can't make the numbers work because they don't want to. As for metro west I think that might be better discussed on a new or existing thread.
  Transtopic Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Epping to Parramatta was dead and buried when Labor cancelled the Parramatta to Chatswood railway (PCRL) for the Epping to Chatswood railway (ECRL). The NW metro will never run to Parramatta from Epping and any new rail system along the Victoria road corridor will follow Victoria road exactly and connect with the northern line at west Ryde and not Epping.

The western metro will be going west via the bays precinct, north Strathfield or concord west, Olympic park, Rosehill and then Parramatta. The latest bit of gossip is that the western Metro might actually have 4 tracks with an express airport service and an all stopper service in tunnels running side by side.

The Dundas route has no hope due to destruction of brush farm park to build that option. For the amount of people using the Epping to Parramatta route the bus is more then sufficient to handle the numbers.
simstrain
You're probably right about the unlikelihood of a future Epping to Parramatta rail link (the PERL to put it into reverse terminology), particularly if the light rail conversion of the Carlingford Line goes ahead.  I suppose it could always be reconverted to metro at a later stage, but that would be a long way into the future, so not even worth thinking about.  I was only suggesting a Victoria Rd metro to Epping in response to Shane's comments about providing separate platforms for a potential metro link from Parramatta.  No one really knows whether a Victoria Rd metro will ever come to fruition, so your adamant assertion that it would connect with West Ryde is pure speculation.  I wouldn't be so sure.

Likewise, your suggested route for Metro West is also pure speculation.  Unless you have some inside knowledge, which the rest of us mere mortals are unaware of, I wouldn't give it much credence.  I agree with Shane that constructing 4 tracks, including express tracks to Badgerys Creek Airport is fanciful.  It shouldn't be forgotten that the Federal Government is a participant in the Joint Study of the Western Sydney Rail Needs and they're not going to act as an ATM to fund such a project just because the State Government thinks it's a good idea.

Getting back to topic of the Carlingford light rail, you're being a bit over the top in suggesting that Brush Farm Park would be destroyed if a future route option was considered from Dundas to Macquarie Park via the Eastwood County Road reservation.  That's a myth.  Brush Farm Park won't be impacted at all, as it is located to the north of the road reservation, which has been in existence for over 60 years.  The County Road reservation follows the alignment of Rutledge St across a narrow gully between Brush Rd and Marsden Rd.  I have a copy of the first Gregory's street directory, published in 1934, which clearly shows Rutledge St as a public, albeit unmade road.  It has never been part of Brush Farm Park.  To appease local environmental groups following community consultation almost two decades ago, the then RTA proposed an arch bridge across the gully which would have minimal impact on the valley floor between Brush Farm Park and the southern Lambert Park.  To now bring this up as an impediment to any future road or light rail project is a complete furphy.  More likely an excuse to justify other options.

If such a route was considered to be too environmentally sensitive, then the government should simply remove the reservation affectation, as it would appear to have no further use.  I don't see this happening anytime soon.

When you consider that the government is proposing to resume vast swathes of the Royal National Park for the F6 upgrade, then this is insignificant.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If a Victoria rd metro does eventually come to fruition then going to Epping means it will not be following Victoria road will it. It would also have to interfere with the nw metro and so this is why that path will not be taken. The 2008 route option would only be applicable to top ryde. From there it would head west and not north as the 2008 proposal did.

As you pointed out there is nothing coming out about a victoria road metro at the moment in any case. So not really worth talking about.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If a Victoria rd metro does eventually come to fruition then going to Epping means it will not be following Victoria road will it. It would also have to interfere with the nw metro and so this is why that path will not be taken. The 2008 route option would only be applicable to top ryde. From there it would head west and not north as the 2008 proposal did.

As you pointed out there is nothing coming out about a victoria road metro at the moment in any case. So not really worth talking about.
simstrain
Hardly Sims, Please look at a map.

It could run from start of Victoria road via Rozelle, although I think Five Dock is now better as the LR is in Rozelle
To Top Ryde by basically following Victoria Road on north side of river.
Then Marsfield then Epping station using its own platforms. No interference with the existing Metro line or the main north.

The reason the govt is not talking about it is because its a ALP party plan or at least was raised by the govt transport department during ALP govt. Even ALP will be a bit nervous to raise it right now as the initial plan was utterly stupid, basically phase 1 was too short to be of much use competing directly with the LR. So in short its something no-one wants to touch just yet due to the political baggage.

The line needs to be announced to be built in one phase. Despite the politics, it still is one of the "missing links" of Sydney along this busy and growing corridor. For the record I commuted on this route in the late 80's by bus and it would have supported a railway then and removed a large number of buses off the road. It basically fills the gap between the north main and ECRL.

It could run to Eastwood or ECRL but Epping is becoming a major hub and hence I think better. Epping would have been ideal for the continuation to Paramatta, however this is dead for near decade or more (but not dead for ever) due to the Carlingford LR.

The original plan for the E-PRL died because the former ALP govt was incompetent. Should it have even raised the project from the start is questionable based on predicted numbers which it later used to can the project which says more about the govt, but as you said Sydney is growing as so is the role of Paramatta CBD and so is the North business district between Epping and Chatswood, the need for this line will become viable. Barry canned it despite the feds basically throwing him the entire cost because of an election promise. He had hoped to switch the funding to the NW line, but no. IA had approved the project so the numbers must have been reasonable. With the value of Hindsight NSW should have taken the $2B and built the line and the NW Metro. But back then the future revenues flooding the states treasury was not predicted. Just funding the NW Metro was a challenge in itself and most thought the extension to the city was an unrealistic project and hence why the NW Metro should have been built as DD so as to intertie with the rest of the network and not be an orphan, little did we know.....  

This Metro will likely be revived after 2025 or there abouts when the current projects are winding up and they are looking for the next thing to resolve inner suburban traffic and the political baggage attached to the project is history.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why the heck would another rail line to epping be needed and where the heck are those new platforms going to go? It is already well served by existing rail and bus services. Epping and Marsfield are 4+ kilometres north of Victoria road at Ryde and Marsfield is already close enough to Macquarie university station to not need it's own station. An interchange anywhere on the northern line is all that is needed. Epping is not a hub, it is just an interchange point.

Building the North west metro as DD would mean that maybe only 2 trains an hour could be run along it's length and no new underground tunnels would have been built to the Sydney CBD. It would have just added to the interlinking hell that is the Sydney system instead of getting the nearly $30billion on brand spanking new modern railway system that we are going to end up with.

A LR extension from Carlingford to Epping is something to be looked at in the future but patronage along this line is more suited to LR then HR. A 4 car S, C or k set is overkill for the line and what are you trying to achieve with a 30 minute frequency on the line that can barely fill 2 carriages, let alone 4 when it runs. 30 minute frequency would be nice for when I do an all stations challenge but achieving a faster time on such a challenge is not what PT is meant for.
  Transtopic Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I don't want to dwell on this, because it's off-topic, but some misconceptions need to be corrected.  Labor's original North West Metro proposal did not involve any direct connection with the existing Epping to Chatswood Rail Link, but proposed, as I mentioned previously, having separate underground metro platforms on the opposite side of Beecroft Rd, roughly under the site of the Epping Hotel.  There was to be a connecting pedestrian link with the existing station under Beecroft Rd.

The Labor Government received formal planning approval for the section of the metro line from Epping to Rouse Hill, which the newly elected Coalition Government in 2011 relied upon for their proposal for the North West Rail Link, then as part of the DD network, with a deviation at Epping to connect directly with the ECRL, not the previously approved separate metro platforms.  This proposal by the Coalition then morphed into the current Metro North West project.  

Labor's North West Metro proposal, confirmed in the Draft EIS, ran from the separate Epping platforms to a new station at St James in the CBD via Eastwood, Top Ryde, Monash Park, Gladesville, Drummoyne, Rozelle, White Bay, Pyrmont, Wynyard/Barangaroo and Martin Place.  It's still part of the Victoria Rd corridor from Top Ryde to the CBD.  This was subsequently canned and the infamous CBD to Rozelle metro link, via the Pitt St corridor emerged.  They are different proposals.  With the Metro West proposal to Parramatta now coming onto the agenda, it's doubtful if a Victoria Rd based metro would continue from Top Ryde through to Parramatta on the northern side of the Parramatta River.

The option of a new metro link to the previously proposed separate Epping metro platforms is still open, as the site has not yet been redeveloped.  It would not interfere with either the Metro North West or the Northern Line.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, it could potentially be extended to Carlingford, to interchange with the light rail link to Parramatta and continue on to North Rocks and Baulkham Hills, which currently have no rail service.

The issue of a future light rail link from Dundas on the Carlingford Line to Macquarie Park via Eastwood is an entirely separate matter.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Why the heck would another rail line to epping be needed and where the heck are those new platforms going to go? It is already well served by existing rail and bus services. Epping and Marsfield are 4+ kilometres north of Victoria road at Ryde and Marsfield is already close enough to Macquarie university station to not need it's own station. An interchange anywhere on the northern line is all that is needed. Epping is not a hub, it is just an interchange point.

Building the North west metro as DD would mean that maybe only 2 trains an hour could be run along it's length and no new underground tunnels would have been built to the Sydney CBD. It would have just added to the interlinking hell that is the Sydney system instead of getting the nearly $30billion on brand spanking new modern railway system that we are going to end up with.

A LR extension from Carlingford to Epping is something to be looked at in the future but patronage along this line is more suited to LR then HR. A 4 car S, C or k set is overkill for the line and what are you trying to achieve with a 30 minute frequency on the line that can barely fill 2 carriages, let alone 4 when it runs. 30 minute frequency would be nice for when I do an all stations challenge but achieving a faster time on such a challenge is not what PT is meant for.
simstrain
Sim's go to Epping Station and stand in any location and look at your feet, anywhere below there is suitable for additional platforms at Epping.

Epping because its a Hub, which you so well pointed out and some of those buses come from Ryde.
Defintion of Hub is "Interchange"

4km is a long way to walk. 2km spacing for stations is suitable for mid suburban Sydney, especially as it is close to two other lines, we don't want another unused station.

The Carlingford line is underused because it doesn't go anywhere, doesn't go where people want to go and when it does its not frequent. Similar suburban populations elsewhere in Sydney and not far away on Main North have significantly higher volumes of users.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If you watched Railroad Australia 2 you would have seen video of me climbing Mt Epping (even though I wasn't shown as one of the official participants) so I know what is underneath Epping. Why would you build another platform at Epping for. Even if you build it under Epping hotel, what do you achieve with a Victoria road metro going to Epping other then to say that it connects to Epping. Our rail lines in NSW are already the most round about lines in the world and here you are talking about running the Victoria road metro from Ryde 4km's north to Epping just to head south again to Parramatta. Do you realise how crazy that sounds.

Epping is not a hub, it is just a through point with no actual bus interchange facilities to make it a hub. The only reason the train terminates at Epping is because of the ECRL and once that goes metro then the line will once again go all the way to Hornsby and directly connect the people along the northern line again. Ryde is not 4km's from west Ryde and buses do not actually go to Epping from Ryde. Buses from Ryde go to north Ryde, Eastwood, west Ryde, Denistone, Meadowbank, Macquarie park and university stations but not Epping.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If you watched Railroad Australia 2 you would have seen video of me climbing Mt Epping (even though I wasn't shown as one of the official participants) so I know what is underneath Epping. Why would you build another platform at Epping for. Even if you build it under Epping hotel, what do you achieve with a Victoria road metro going to Epping other then to say that it connects to Epping. Our rail lines in NSW are already the most round about lines in the world and here you are talking about running the Victoria road metro from Ryde 4km's north to Epping just to head south again to Parramatta. Do you realise how crazy that sounds.

Epping is not a hub, it is just a through point with no actual bus interchange facilities to make it a hub. The only reason the train terminates at Epping is because of the ECRL and once that goes metro then the line will once again go all the way to Hornsby and directly connect the people along the northern line again. Ryde is not 4km's from west Ryde and buses do not actually go to Epping from Ryde. Buses from Ryde go to north Ryde, Eastwood, west Ryde, Denistone, Meadowbank, Macquarie park and university stations but not Epping.
simstrain
Ok, so you need baby steps.

Lets start with Victoria Road. I just checked the timetable for now, 2:30pm to 3:30pm 16 buses running to the city. In peak more again and I know they are full, they were full in 1989. The Road itself is also full, 4-6 lanes depending on your location. So I think this speaks for itself why a Metro to Top Ryde is needed.

Now do you run a Metro to just Top Ryde, again building yet another line that stops in middle of Suburbia and doesn't enable through traffic to any other part other than the city? ie Bondi Jnct, NW Metro terminus, Bankstown Metro terminus, CSELR southern fork, Carlingford HR, Carlingford LR.....? All stopping less than a few km from somewhere more significant or at least another major PT corridor. No you provide connectivity and typically target major junctions, not a suburban railway station.

Epping is going to be a junction of two major lines and as you said many bus routes, wouldn't this be more logical?
Where in Epping, well as the line is already a bloody Metro in the ground and Epping has two platforms in the ground, then how about build the station "IN THE GROUND".

Now regardless how this line was to get from Ryde to Paramatta, once past the Nth Main, its no longer intended as a means to get from Paramatta to the City, but rather Paramatta to another major location. The Epping to Chatswood Corridor is already a major destination with far more off's than on;s in peak, I'm talking 10 fold!!!. So obviously alot of people want to go there. Just maybe some of those are from Western Sydney????? When the PERL was canned, things were very much different back then, even during the planning by the LNP for the NW Metro. By 2030, things will have changed more so and the numbers more than less. I do not see this project as practical for teh govt to pick up until the mid 2020's at least due to the list of other projects underway.

So the continuation of the line from Epping via Carlingford to Paramatta is about connectivity, efficiently, not a slow LR or bus. As others have said, the intermediate area on the E-P corridor want to go to more that way than city and why the train is currently lightly used.A line to now where running the wrong direction infrequently, surprise no one uses it!!! By extending the Metro through, you save costs over running as an isolated line.

Now as the Carlingford LR is a goer, if it doesn't get to Epping, then the validity for the EPRL is still there. If it does, then potentially going via Eastwood is better.

And as for Epping not being a Hub, I gave up counting the number of buses in one hour going there. If thats not a Hub combined with soon to be the cross roads of two major railway lines I don't know what is?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I'm not in any way saying to stop the proposed victroia road metro at Ryde or to not run a train service along victoria road. I'm saying take the train in a direct westerly fashion following victoria road to it's fullest via west ryde and then head towards baulkham hills at north Parramatta. Do not send the line of on a useless tangent towards epping which follows very closely to an existing line.

I know that Victoria Road has many buses but an Epping service isn't one of them. Epping does not interchange with many bus routes (only about 8 as per this map). I think there is 1 more cdc bus service and that is all. There is no need for a rail service between Parramatta and Epping.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Even the govt transport site says if travelling from Parramatta to Epping, take the faster train. The distance is 10km, but a train + interchange at Straithfield is to be going 24km is faster. Driving time is listed by Google as 20min to 45min depending on time of day. So naturally the bus is not going to be popular over a car and maybe rail.

Additionally 1/9 people from the Western portion of the Network travel by rail to Northern, ECRL and North Shore lines (not sure on VV as I didn't look). Assume half would find the existing connections more suitable, then you have roughly 1 out of the 20 trains an hour worth of bodies on the Western Line maybe able to be vacated in preference to using the PERL to get access to their destinations in the north. We all know being able to divert 1 train load of people off the western corridor will be invaluable for the current capacity constraints on this route.

A connection from Epping/Eastwood but more Epping may also be more useful for some from NW and Northern lines travelling to the western part of the City, ie Syd-Uni/Redfern - Central over the New Metro corridor as it more direct and likely to have less stops.

No it doesn't parallel and existing line but of course as it approaches a junction like all railways you will get dilution of passengers to both lines which as we have previously discussed may not good for the economics of the last two stations before the Junction, hence why choose a location at least 2km from both the ECRL and Northern line stations. If you look up Sydney Trains own data, it shows the ability for rail to capture users starts to decrease dramatically after they have to travel more than 1km to the station. So as long as the stations are no closer than 2km the overlap impact is limited.

There are a number of frequent bus routes from the Northern line stations, ie West Ryde, Eastwood and Epping as a starter to Paramatta, none of them are fast for the distance and rail is certainly faster if you live near the rail line (see above paragraph).

I don't pretend there is a huge market wanting to go to the city western of the Northern line as this will do that work as well as the Western line and the catchment is limited anyway to low density, its all about connectivity for the network, being able to quickly and efficiently move across the city in any direction other than a hub profile via inner city, something the north side is not well served with despite the growing satellite working centres such as the ECRL which has 10 x more people travelling there for work than leaving the area. Currently the biggest missing link on the network is North to West and VV.

I know you don't want to know, but Epping is a growing hub and becoming a business district in its own right. In the 80's it was houses, not today and the NWRL will add to this. In the 80's Chatswood station from my observation had more people travelling out of by train than arriving in AM peak, this has now reversed. Epping WILL follow suit.
  marvin Assistant Commissioner

Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
... Currently the biggest missing link on the network is North to West and VV.
RTT_Rules
VV ???
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Are you sure you know what you are talking about. Epping is not becoming a business hub. It is nothing but houses, some local shops and a train station. The business hub is to the east in Macquarie park, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde and Chatswood. This is why the new nw metro is connecting into this line because most of the residents travelling to this area are from the north western parts in the castle hill, rouse hill area.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
... Currently the biggest missing link on the network is North to West and VV.
VV ???
marvin
Vice Versa
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Are you sure you know what you are talking about. Epping is not becoming a business hub. It is nothing but houses, some local shops and a train station. The business hub is to the east in Macquarie park, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde and Chatswood. This is why the new nw metro is connecting into this line because most of the residents travelling to this area are from the north western parts in the castle hill, rouse hill area.
simstrain

Do you run the line north to Macquarie Park or Uni and just terminate? Yes that could be an option. However back what I was saying before, connectivity and catchment, this is what makes rail more attractive. Remember the former Premier talked about a 30min city, ie takes less than 30min to travel by train from most major centres in the city to most other major centres.

Running from Top Ryde north staying around 1.8 to 2.2km east of Deniston and Eastwood and similar distance to ECRL then to Epping, then you have a clear run to head west and connect with Parramatta. As 10km from Parramatta to Epping, by train this would be 10-15min depending on route and alignment and stops. Currently its roughly 30min. Hence bring the business hub you quoted above "business hub is to the east in Macquarie park, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde and Chatswood" within 30min of Parramatta.

You could go from Ryde to Eastwood and west, but for this is a messy connection, requires a double change and not the natural flow from major business centre to major business centre.

With the Carlingford Line no longer an option, from Epping you can arc around through the top of Carongford station and come into Parramatta from the north via North Parramatta and then run across Parramatta towards South Wentworthville and Greystanes.

The issue the govt is going to face with the roll out of more LR is the likely growing opposition to the construction process, not the actual LR for which they probably embrace from which I hear there are major issues with the CSELR, although some of it is the usual hoo haa whingers, but there have been a number of long term businesses close and others reported their street furniture was basically stolen by the project and their previous customer parking was taken for project staff parking, not the actual construction works and restricted access and barricading lasting months longer than previously advised.  

I don't know how true this all this is, but if the reputation is bad, don't expect LR project to be welcomed and more likely blocked.
  Jim_telopea Beginner

Hi All,

We are a little off topic. Ive done some further research to show the real cause of poor patronage on this line. Irregular service and withdrawel of service.

The service is now much worse than in the early 2000's, when they were running a more frequent peak. They are now many more people living in the area. The issue is frequency and timetabling.

Carlingford-city peak:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010405125827/http://www.cityrail.nsw.gov.au:80/timetables/carlingford/up_m-f/lframe.htm

Carlingford:
6.04am (next 32mins)
6.36am (next 27mins)
7.03am (next 27mins)
7.30am (next 34mins)
8.04am (next 37mins)
8.41am


City-Carlingford peak:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010111000600/http://www.cityrail.nsw.gov.au:80/timetables/carlingford/dn_m-f/lframe.htm

Clyde:
5.08pm (next 32mins)
5.40pm (next 31mins)
6.11pm (next 24mins)
6.35pm (next 34mins)
7.09pm

Watch them destroy a heavy rail.corridor and steal the alignment at rosehill for the metro. I note the project is $1B  short of funds. Cancel it.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The western Metro isn't going to steal the heavy rail line at rose hill Jim. That is the job of the light rail which will connect into Parramatta. The light rail will be much better for the Carlingford line because instead of single track it can be duplicated in it's entire length and have significantly more frequency. A tram every 10 minutes vs 40 minutes for the current heavy rail option. There is nothing then stopping the LR extending to Epping on or under Carlingford road if need be in the future.
  marvin Assistant Commissioner

Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
RTT - "Vice Versa"

Thanks.

marvin
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  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
I agree that Parramatta-Carlingford proposed light rail will be successful. The new City and South West light rail will demonstrate the benefits of it. Metro would cost more with driverless trains, screen doors ect. The only problem I can think of is people wanting to go from City-Carlingford stations as they would have to change at Parramatta for a tram and would be slower for them.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I agree that Parramatta-Carlingford proposed light rail will be successful. The new City and South West light rail will demonstrate the benefits of it. Metro would cost more with driverless trains, screen doors ect. The only problem I can think of is people wanting to go from City-Carlingford stations as they would have to change at Parramatta for a tram and would be slower for them.
Colonel Leon
Clyde - Central (27min) and Parramatta - Central (26min) on the express service is roughly the same time.

The difference will be the travel time from home to either of those stations and the time wasted due to the limited timetable on the Carlingford line if you get to your say work way earlier than needed.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If the western metro makes a stop at rose hill then the trip will be even quicker into the Sydney CBD.

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