Inland freight hubs to move trucks off suburban Melbourne streets

 

News article: Inland freight hubs to move trucks off suburban Melbourne streets

NEW inland freight hubs will move tens of thousands of trucks off suburban streets and on to rail.

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Here we go again with the same terminal being announced again for the West. I can really see the merit behind doing this but this terminal will not solve the export and import issues unless the plan is to run shuttles from the WIFT and the Northern Terminal.

We really need an announcement of a terminal in the EAST as a priority.  The Northern Terminal would not be as busy as a terminal around Dandenong.

Inland freight hubs to move trucks off suburban Melbourne streets

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  blowfish Junior Train Controller

The hot air just took a turn given the West Gate Tunnel planning approval has been revoked.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The hot air just took a turn given the West Gate Tunnel planning approval has been revoked.
blowfish

Andrews has no intention of developing rail and if he did he would be prioritizing an intermodal terminal in the east pronto.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The hot air just took a turn given the West Gate Tunnel planning approval has been revoked.

Andrews has no intention of developing rail and if he did he would be prioritizing an intermodal terminal in the east pronto.
bevans
Here's another smart idea for Dan - reinstate rail to the ever-expanding Webb Dock....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The hot air just took a turn given the West Gate Tunnel planning approval has been revoked.

Andrews has no intention of developing rail and if he did he would be prioritizing an intermodal terminal in the east pronto.
Here's another smart idea for Dan - reinstate rail to the ever-expanding Webb Dock....
Carnot

The POM asked for this to happen based on 1 million TEU per annum.  Andrews REFUSED
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Anyone notice the news item also states double stacking?
  M636C Minister for Railways

Anyone notice the news item also states double stacking?
x31
That is a reference to the terminal being used for the Inland Railway which will use double stacking.

I assume wagons will need to have the upper stack removed at WIFT before being forwarded to the port.

Peter
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The hot air just took a turn given the West Gate Tunnel planning approval has been revoked.

Andrews has no intention of developing rail and if he did he would be prioritizing an intermodal terminal in the east pronto.
Here's another smart idea for Dan - reinstate rail to the ever-expanding Webb Dock....

The POM asked for this to happen based on 1 million TEU per annum.  Andrews REFUSED
bevans
Then why dont the POM put forward a proposal and funding then.... this smeg pisses me off when everybody cries poor and asks someone else should pay for it.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The government has no interest in these terminals and merely another media stunt from the minister in light of the Westgate tunnel issues.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Then why dont the POM put forward a proposal and funding then.... this smeg pisses me off when everybody cries poor and asks someone else should pay for it.
speedemon08
That is a very good point Speedemon but what I don't understand is the relationship between Webb Dock (VICT vict.com.au ) and the POM.

Did the Government's $9Bn lease of the POM? And has it subsequently by sub let to VICT?

If so what would the benefits be to the POM of the Rail line to Webb Dock?

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The benefits are that truck movements are seriously more intensive to the port than rail movements which are easier to deal with.

Environmental impacts

Costs of delays with trucks

double handling of trucks to and from rail

Trucks leave and arrive empty very often.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The benefits are that truck movements are seriously more intensive to the port than rail movements which are easier to deal with.

Environmental impacts

Costs of delays with trucks

double handling of trucks to and from rail

Trucks leave and arrive empty very often.
bevans
Yes but those are not commercial benefits for the POM, they are factors for Government (in the case of Enviro impacts) and the commercial market (in the case of the rest) to deal with.

What I am asking is if the POM were to stump up the $$$ to connect Webb dock to the rail network what would be the commercial benefits for the POM?

Because if the answer is none because it has leased the lot out to VICT then they are hardly going to be so charitable as to pay for that now are they?

BG
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
The benefits are that truck movements are seriously more intensive to the port than rail movements which are easier to deal with.

Environmental impacts

Costs of delays with trucks

double handling of trucks to and from rail

Trucks leave and arrive empty very often.
bevans
the same things happen with rail.

eg if a truck is delayed it is 2 to 3 containers at most. with rail it will be a trainload (several hundred)

You still have the double handling and delays. containers go to businesses all over Melbourne and other places where the is (or never has been) a rail service.  That final delivery is still going to be a truck so all you are doing is moving the congestion from the port to wherever the yard is where trucks pickup the containers as it's inefficient to use a loco and train to spot one wagon with one container.

Trains will continue to arrive and leave empty.  There are empty container parks around Melbourne where the containers are carted empty to an overseas destination to be filled. Unless there is another container going back to where the truck came from it's still an empty move.  Trains are not exempt from this - grain trains, oil trains all run empty one way to pick up their load. Commuter services are another where trains are often empty (or close to it) or running non-stop with no passengers to make the next peak service.

Container movements in Australia tend to cycle full from port to customer, empty from customer to container park to be cleaned (at least internally) then either empty to the port to go overseas to be refilled or empty to the next customer to be filled to go to the port.  So 1/2 to 2/3 of the container movements are for empty containers.  That is where the real inefficiency creeps in.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
The benefits are that truck movements are seriously more intensive to the port than rail movements which are easier to deal with.

Environmental impacts

Costs of delays with trucks

double handling of trucks to and from rail

Trucks leave and arrive empty very often.
the same things happen with rail.

eg if a truck is delayed it is 2 to 3 containers at most. with rail it will be a trainload (several hundred)

You still have the double handling and delays. containers go to businesses all over Melbourne and other places where the is (or never has been) a rail service.  That final delivery is still going to be a truck so all you are doing is moving the congestion from the port to wherever the yard is where trucks pickup the containers as it's inefficient to use a loco and train to spot one wagon with one container.

Trains will continue to arrive and leave empty.  There are empty container parks around Melbourne where the containers are carted empty to an overseas destination to be filled. Unless there is another container going back to where the truck came from it's still an empty move.  Trains are not exempt from this - grain trains, oil trains all run empty one way to pick up their load. Commuter services are another where trains are often empty (or close to it) or running non-stop with no passengers to make the next peak service.

Container movements in Australia tend to cycle full from port to customer, empty from customer to container park to be cleaned (at least internally) then either empty to the port to go overseas to be refilled or empty to the next customer to be filled to go to the port.  So 1/2 to 2/3 of the container movements are for empty containers.  That is where the real inefficiency creeps in.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The benefits are that truck movements are seriously more intensive to the port than rail movements which are easier to deal with.

Environmental impacts

Costs of delays with trucks

double handling of trucks to and from rail

Trucks leave and arrive empty very often.
the same things happen with rail.

eg if a truck is delayed it is 2 to 3 containers at most. with rail it will be a trainload (several hundred)

You still have the double handling and delays. containers go to businesses all over Melbourne and other places where the is (or never has been) a rail service.  That final delivery is still going to be a truck so all you are doing is moving the congestion from the port to wherever the yard is where trucks pickup the containers as it's inefficient to use a loco and train to spot one wagon with one container.

Trains will continue to arrive and leave empty.  There are empty container parks around Melbourne where the containers are carted empty to an overseas destination to be filled. Unless there is another container going back to where the truck came from it's still an empty move.  Trains are not exempt from this - grain trains, oil trains all run empty one way to pick up their load. Commuter services are another where trains are often empty (or close to it) or running non-stop with no passengers to make the next peak service.

Container movements in Australia tend to cycle full from port to customer, empty from customer to container park to be cleaned (at least internally) then either empty to the port to go overseas to be refilled or empty to the next customer to be filled to go to the port.  So 1/2 to 2/3 of the container movements are for empty containers.  That is where the real inefficiency creeps in.
HardWorkingMan

You obviously haven't been to Sydney then. We have intermodals at enfield, yennora and Minto with new ones proposed at Moorebank and St Mary's. There is also a proposal for one on the northern line somewhere.

Intermodals can and do make a difference.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

NSW also has many intermodals in regional areas. Here is a list of NSW's intermodals.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/documents/2017/Intermodal%20terminals%20by%20local%20government%20area.pdf

No reason this couldn't happen in Melbourne.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Obviously sick and tired of trying to get this up and running and have now pulled the pin.

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-28838/

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