Rail link to Doncaster

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
One stop at Doncaster is hardly going to have a revolutionary impact on PT use.

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  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
So what you're saying is, we need 2 doncaster stations.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It needs to go beyond Doncaster have any real impact.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
Plenty of impact in a Doncaster line terminating at a very major centre.
It has bus services radiating to outer and cross city locations on a quite good aterial road network.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Wallan, Clyde, Melton, Tarneit, and even Baxter deserve a better rail connection than Doncaster. These are growing future suburbs of Melbourne, proper access to these areas are key and are definitely need the infrastructure. Anyways with the SRL connecting up Doncaster there is little need to build the direct rail connection at all.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

If I could have a wish it’d be that people stop talking about which areas “deserve” various projects.

Just stop. It’s not useful language.

Talk about the transport task, the utility and efficiency of various modes, but stop making it sound like a moral question.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

If I could have a wish it’d be that people stop talking about which areas “deserve” various projects.

Just stop. It’s not useful language.

Talk about the transport task, the utility and efficiency of various modes, but stop making it sound like a moral question.
potatoinmymouth
Ok let me rephrase the language to something more constructive.

These areas have justification for a proper heavy rail metro service, while Doncaster doesn't.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

These areas have justification for a proper heavy rail metro service, while Doncaster doesn't
True Believers

Clyde passengers should just use the Monash, Baxter passengers should just use the Nepean hwy or park at Frankston, Wallan passengers should just take the Hume and Ring Road

That’s your logic for Doncaster Rail


@ZH Means that tens of thousands of cars don’t need to clog up our roads and the eastern fwy
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

These areas have justification for a proper heavy rail metro service, while Doncaster doesn't

Clyde passengers should just use the Monash, Baxter passengers should just use the Nepean hwy or park at Frankston, Wallan passengers should just take the Hume and Ring Road

That’s your logic for Doncaster Rail


@ZH Means that tens of thousands of cars don’t need to clog up our roads and the eastern fwy
ptvcommuter
Doncaster is well served within Melbourne. It is nearby to the heavy rail of the Hurstbridge line & Burnley group heavy rail lines.
It also has 4 smart bus routes. The orbital bus route. A decent arterial road network. It is very close to a Eastern Freeway.

Now compare with an area like Clyde. Infrequent bus network. A road network that is behind in upgrades. Not near a freeway. And closest railway is a single track Cranbourne line.

Baxter is more of an better park and ride than Frankston. But currently anywhere past Frankston you would have to use a car. Little PT options. No frequent smart buses past Frankston unfortunately.

Similiar case for Wallan, an infrequent regional train line. But that area is not quite developed yet. But it's infrastructure is lacking.

Now Melton is similiar to Wallan, but that area will be developed much sooner and the roads are not up to scratch. And the railway is only just getting duplicated in 2019. And I don't think you'll find a frequent bus through the area too.

Here's a challenge. You try to get to Doncaster by PT. Then compare it to Clyde, Baxter, Wallan or Melton. You'll find that these areas have become more road reliant as PT in those areas are really poor.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Why are we still talking about this? The suburban rail link proposal makes Doncaster rail irrelevant.
Dangersdan707


Yes it does
But a bussway which can only carry a thousands or so passengers into the city max isn’t a good solution. What happens when they get to Hoddle St, then it becomes a slow crawl into Lonsdale Street. Rail isn’t going to happen I get that, but light rail could work too.



Tram goes down the Eastern Freeway which park and ride stops at Bulleen Rd, Chandler and Doncaster Park n Ride. Then continues down Alexandria Pde in the median then left down Wellington St through Collingwood. Would then go right down Victoria Pde continuing past Parliament and then down Nicholson St before turning into Lonsdale St and terminating near Spencer St or King St.

Yes Trams down Lonsdale St, there actually used to be Trams down there and yes there will be some parking loss but this tram route would actually work well. Would not intersect with cars at any point in the journey except down Wellington St.

Tram would connect passengers to Parliament, Collingwood, nearby Victoria Park Station, Lonsdale St and connect to Doncaster area.

Or you could run busses that same route but it wouldn’t carry anywhere near the same pax as what light rail would. And it would be cheaper, 1.5 Billion max, only 500-700 Million more than the bussway estimate.

I know there’s a station proposed at Doncaster on the SRL but this also connects to the areas of Kew and other eastern suburbs.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Why are we still talking about this? The suburban rail link proposal makes Doncaster rail irrelevant.


Yes it does
But a bussway which can only carry a thousands or so passengers into the city max isn’t a good solution. What happens when they get to Hoddle St, then it becomes a slow crawl into Lonsdale Street. Rail isn’t going to happen I get that, but light rail could work too.
ptvcommuter
Or just run the busway into the old parcels depot at Victoria Park Station and allow people to change to heavy rail there. Plenty already do this, there is a bus stop on the corner of Truro St and Hoddle St so especially on 'Up" trips it is a really short walk to the station.

This would massively improve connectivity.

With a bit of imagination you could then run the buses under the rail line and back out onto Hoddle St and use the works required as an excuse to redevelop the whole parcels depot site which is an eyesore and a waste of valuable inner city real estate.

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This actually says a lot.  Look at the contrast.

  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
That map doesn't mean much.  The majority of decent peak hour services run to the city and back as that's how the network is set up.  It would be interesting to compare it against total journeys during peak as I know of dozens of people that don't work in the CBD who drive to work as the trip would require 2 or more changes of transport to reach their destination (think South Morang to East Burwood, Melton to Mount Waverley (south of the monash freeway), Werribee to Wellington Road, Lilydale to Dandenong South.) and driving is quicker. Even shorter trips (such as Narre Warren South to Pakenham or Narre Warren South to Frankston) are not worth the multiple changes of transport as it blows a 15 to 20 minute car journey to  1.25 hour trip.

Our public transport is great for in and out of the CBD but fails elsewhere as there is a growing number of people on the urban fringe who never go to the CBD as they don't need to.  However the CBD is where the majority of transport planners and puvilccc servants work. Self-interest?
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
This actually says a lot.  Look at the contrast.

bevans
Just looking at a map doesn't tell you much about Melbourne. Certainly nothing about the topology.

Trains majority is on the flat parts of the suburban sprawl. Except for the north-eastern Hurstbridge line which follows a fairly flat and straight river course.

Good reason for the big orange(bus) blob on the eastern side.
The roads out there are like a roller coaster. Hundreds of short, deep valleys and hills that seem to go nowhere.
Not conducive to building a train line. Bus and car is the only way.

As for the theme of this thread "Doncaster Rail", the picture shows that the dreamed route is already very well served by the green(tram) finger.

cheers
John
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
That map doesn't mean much.  The majority of decent peak hour services run to the city and back as that's how the network is set up.  It would be interesting to compare it against total journeys during peak as I know of dozens of people that don't work in the CBD who drive to work as the trip would require 2 or more changes of transport to reach their destination (think South Morang to East Burwood, Melton to Mount Waverley (south of the monash freeway), Werribee to Wellington Road, Lilydale to Dandenong South.) and driving is quicker. Even shorter trips (such as Narre Warren South to Pakenham or Narre Warren South to Frankston) are not worth the multiple changes of transport as it blows a 15 to 20 minute car journey to  1.25 hour trip.

Our public transport is great for in and out of the CBD but fails elsewhere as there is a growing number of people on the urban fringe who never go to the CBD as they don't need to.  However the CBD is where the majority of transport planners and puvilccc servants work. Self-interest?
HardWorkingMan
True for now.
However the CBD "puvilccc" servants have come up with the SRL to address the issues you raise, which doesn't sound so self-interested.

cheers
John
  Carnot Minister for Railways

That map doesn't mean much.  The majority of decent peak hour services run to the city and back as that's how the network is set up.  It would be interesting to compare it against total journeys during peak as I know of dozens of people that don't work in the CBD who drive to work as the trip would require 2 or more changes of transport to reach their destination (think South Morang to East Burwood, Melton to Mount Waverley (south of the monash freeway), Werribee to Wellington Road, Lilydale to Dandenong South.) and driving is quicker. Even shorter trips (such as Narre Warren South to Pakenham or Narre Warren South to Frankston) are not worth the multiple changes of transport as it blows a 15 to 20 minute car journey to  1.25 hour trip.

Our public transport is great for in and out of the CBD but fails elsewhere as there is a growing number of people on the urban fringe who never go to the CBD as they don't need to.  However the CBD is where the majority of transport planners and puvilccc servants work. Self-interest?
True for now.
However the CBD "puvilccc" servants have come up with the SRL to address the issues you raise, which doesn't sound so self-interested.

cheers
John
justarider
SRL from Box Hill to Doncaster could be fun.  It has to cross a relatively deep valley (Koonung Creek).  A Skyrail Viaduct there I reckon....
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
SRL from Box Hill to Doncaster could be fun.  It has to cross a relatively deep valley (Koonung Creek).  A Skyrail Viaduct there I reckon....
Carnot
There's been lots of discussion about how SRL deals with the Eastern Freeway/Koonung Creek crossing already.

I know it's taking it further off topic, but if that's looking like a problem, what about getting from Doncaster to Heidelberg under (over???) the Yarra River and massive floodplain? Giant skyrail along Banksia St/Manningham Rd maybe Laughing!
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
If the Eastern Carpark becomes heritage listed, there is a possibility that there will be no legal way to modify the median strip to incorporate a rail line, nor will there be a way to amplify the Clifton Hill group from its current three track (up/down plus siding) layout.

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