The Rail Tram and Bus Union is calling for unused railway lines to cart water to drought-stricken towns

 

News article: The Rail Tram and Bus Union is calling for unused railway lines to cart water to drought-stricken towns

There's a new idea being thrown around to connect drought-stricken NSW towns with water, and it involves rail.

  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Not a bad idea given NSW has serious drought conditions out west. 

Doubtful on some lines but communities deserve more support and rail can do this.

The Rail Tram and Bus Union is calling for unused railway lines to cart water to drought-stricken towns

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  theanimal Chief Commissioner

so use lines that have been out of use for 20+ years, branch line locos that are not owned anymore, wagons that no one has

yes certainly has the makings of a great idea
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
The idea of carting water by rail makes sense, and credit to SSR for making it happen. But it also needs to be sensibly thought out.

As for Mr Claasens, he clearly hasn’t been to Mudgee - especially by rail. Water supply to town remains quite adequate, thanks to Lake Windamere. And the condition of the perway beyond Rylstone would require a total rebuild.

I can’t speak for water supplies along Olympic Way - if Young or Cowra were in dire need, there may well be a case to run trains from the south. Someone on another thread suggested railing water to Bourke along the right-of-way that was abandoned in the 1970s.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Not a bad idea given NSW has serious drought conditions out west.

Doubtful on some lines but communities deserve more support and rail can do this.

The Rail Tram and Bus Union is calling for unused railway lines to cart water to drought-stricken towns
freightgate
Unless the line is open for traffic or currently boarded open with advance notice, then the suggestion is being compromised by stupidity.  

He has flagged the
- Armidale to Tenterfield line, I've seen parts of this line a few years back, the suggestion is a joke and there are numerous sections missing.
- Blayney to Demondrille line,
- Casino to Murwillumbah line, I've seen parts of this line a few years back, the suggestion is a joke and there are numerous sections missing.
- Rylstone to Mudgee,
line as ones that could be used to make this plan a reality.

However for operating lines, the suggestion is valid as locos are available due to turn down in grain and wagons can be quickly knocked together using containers on flats.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The concept of running water trains would only work using railways to destinations that are serviceable, no way a Government would spend 100's Millions on a forgotten out of service lines, just to run a water train, other solutions would come In much cheaper.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This was addressed by an existing thread a couple of weeks ago after a sighting and an ABC website report.

I'll make the same main point I made on that thread:
Any regional city which is large enough to need trainloads of water probably has an operating railway already so will not need any disused railways to be brought back into service.
Small towns can be adequately served by road tankers (or intermodal tanks on flatbed trucks) either from the nearest appropriate railhead, or directly if there's a more conveniently located supply.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
There is a case for north of Armidale because this area is very dry.  

Is any real work required to get a train north to Guyra?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Someone on another thread suggested railing water to Bourke along the right-of-way that was abandoned in the 1970s.
SinickleBird

That was me and I see no reason why it couldn't be rebuilt for use in such emergencies.
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Nyngan to Bourke is approx 200km. There’s no longer a regular freight task from that part of the world. And it would be a total re-build.

So you would rebuild 200km of rail line to service a small number of trains when there’s a drought on (perhaps 2 years out of 6)?

Cheaper to build a pipeline from Warragamba.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
so use lines that have been out of use for 20+ years, branch line locos that are not owned anymore, wagons that no one has

yes certainly has the makings of a great idea
theanimal

...not forgetting that a litre of water is 1Kg, so there's the weight factor to take into account in these mythical tankers travelling along these tracks with rotten sleepers and dodgy bridges to contend with.

What could possibly go wrong... Question

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Someone on another thread suggested railing water to Bourke along the right-of-way that was abandoned in the 1970s.

That was me and I see no reason why it couldn't be rebuilt for use in such emergencies.
simstrain

The line is a total disaster from Nyngan so would need maga$ to rebuild.

Mike.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

nyngan to bourke is straight and flat. It should be a no brainer to fix it and while there isn't any freight task now it doesn't mean there couldn't be a task in the future. Trains carrying green waste from the coast could be sent to there as well to provide foods for livestock or as compost for crops.

Bourke is on the darling river and so if you are going to run water to anywhere that could benefit more people then just the town where the water is being delivered then this is the town.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

nyngan to bourke is straight and flat. It should be a no brainer to fix it and while there isn't any freight task now it doesn't mean there couldn't be a task in the future. Trains carrying green waste from the coast could be sent to there as well to provide foods for livestock or as compost for crops.

Bourke is on the darling river and so if you are going to run water to anywhere that could benefit more people then just the town where the water is being delivered then this is the town.
simstrain
Engineering wise, it would be a snack. Whether it's a wise use of funds is very much debatable
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The former railway alignment would be the ideal course of a newly laid pipeline.

Use it to take water from tanker cars at Nyngan to Bourke until the drought is over, then mothball it once Bourke can be self-sufficient again.

Three roles for the railway: the use of the former alignment between Nyngan and Bourke, contesting for the transport of materials to a construction depot at Nyngan, and transport of water to Nyngan.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
nyngan to bourke is straight and flat. It should be a no brainer to fix it and while there isn't any freight task now it doesn't mean there couldn't be a task in the future. Trains carrying green waste from the coast could be sent to there as well to provide foods for livestock or as compost for crops.

Bourke is on the darling river and so if you are going to run water to anywhere that could benefit more people then just the town where the water is being delivered then this is the town.
simstrain
You and Bevans want to spend around $100m to reopen a 200km long railway closed for 30 years to move at most 400t of water a day (if its ever actually needed) with nothing but some wool and cotton on offer.

We all know the flood only formalised what the govt would have done not long after.

For a tiny fraction of the price you could run a poly pipe from Nyngan, cable tied to the rails.

Any food needed for livestock will be by truck, as it always is because they don't need a train a day and if the drought is prolonged the livestock are moved, killed or die.

Any greenwaste being sent that way will not be in the order of 10,000t's and hence the trucks will do the job.

Unfortunately the line has seen its sunset, time to move on.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I'm not one for re opening old lines like casino to murwillumbah and most on here know that but the line to bourke is flat and straight and strategically placed on the darling, Secondly politically it could be a boon for the libs. This seat is currently in the hands of the shooters and fishers party and such a project regardless of how much it would cost could show that they are thinking about this electorate. Especially as people from that area see daily about the progress of projects in Sydney and along the east coast. They feel abandoned and this project could be politically very good for the libs.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
I'm not one for re opening old lines like casino to murwillumbah and most on here know that but the line to bourke is flat and straight and strategically placed on the darling, Secondly politically it could be a boon for the libs. This seat is currently in the hands of the shooters and fishers party and such a project regardless of how much it would cost could show that they are thinking about this electorate. Especially as people from that area see daily about the progress of projects in Sydney and along the east coast. They feel abandoned and this project could be politically very good for the libs.
simstrain
So, it's a good idea purely so your beloved Libs can win back the seat?



Don't worry about there being no business case and a complete waste of money. Give them a railway line that won't be used when the costs could be better used in local welfare, education and healthcare.

(I wish I could drink all day and post on Railpage Australia™...)
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
Should we bring back Paddle Steamers aswell?

Hey, run them on coal and deliver it to Bourke by train!!!!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm not one for re opening old lines like casino to murwillumbah and most on here know that but the line to bourke is flat and straight and strategically placed on the darling, Secondly politically it could be a boon for the libs. This seat is currently in the hands of the shooters and fishers party and such a project regardless of how much it would cost could show that they are thinking about this electorate. Especially as people from that area see daily about the progress of projects in Sydney and along the east coast. They feel abandoned and this project could be politically very good for the libs.
simstrain
Sim's, if you have seen my posts in SA forum on Barossa, you will know I am overly optimistic for reopening closed lines and despite as a kid following the Bourke line in a car with my eye's peeled at the rails for 100% of the trip trying to work out of the line was actually open (it was) and see a train, I think any thoughts to reopen this line are closer to extreme to say the least.

I know those rails and the sight of some sleepers not fully rotten are just begging to have a train run on it as is the station that looked new when I last saw it in the early 80's, but it won't happen. There are probably 10 other lines in NSW better positioned that deserve to be reopened.

As for the politics, S&F's party is basically LNP and they would support the LNP in a hung Parliament at which time their wise list would be rolled out, however reopening the railway would most likely not be one of them.  

Maybe look up what traffic this line supported in its final years, I'm sure it was less than 1/train a week. Remember the former Premier Griener's comments in 1988 about the lines they were announcing to close. For some of them, 80% of the traffic was sleepers and ballast for that line.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

I'm not one for re opening old lines like casino to murwillumbah and most on here know that but the line to bourke is flat and straight and strategically placed on the darling, Secondly politically it could be a boon for the libs. This seat is currently in the hands of the shooters and fishers party and such a project regardless of how much it would cost could show that they are thinking about this electorate. Especially as people from that area see daily about the progress of projects in Sydney and along the east coast. They feel abandoned and this project could be politically very good for the libs.
simstrain
for the money it would cost to rehabilitate the line, buy wagons locos, fit infrastructure to unload water etc ( i note no mention of where the water is to come from) you could move everyone to a place with water and burn the sh**hole down.
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
The drought will break and there will be floods long before any of these lines are re-opened.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Don't worry about there being no business case and a complete waste of money. Give them a railway line that won't be used when the costs could be better used in local welfare, education and healthcare.

(I wish I could drink all day and post on Railpage Australia™...)
Just The Tip

I'm going to ignore the first bit you mentioned but in any case it could apply to labor if they were in power. Labor had every opportunity during the election in march to go out there and try to win that seat by promising water drops and re building the rail line. You should think of rebuilding the rail as welfare for bourke. It can take water and green waste as food for animals now but could bring out grains, wool and beef from along that route later.

Sure you could build a water pipe or use trucks instead but you are going to need at least 100 trucks to do what could be done by a dozen loco's. Imagine what damage those trucks would do to the road which has most likely only recently been sealed I'd imagine.

Sure it may not have a business case and as for money that really isn't a problem for NSW at the moment when considering how many billions of dollars worth of infrastructure is being spent in Sydney and the east coast at the moment. How can you say no to a few million on a region of the state that is very vulnerable at the moment when so much money is being thrown around Sydney.
  UpperQuad Locomotive Fireman

Location: 184.8 miles to Sydney
Sure you could build a water pipe or use trucks instead but you are going to need at least 100 trucks to do what could be done by a dozen loco's. Imagine what damage those trucks would do to the road which has most likely only recently been sealed I'd imagine.
simstrain
Imagine the amount of damage done to that road by all the construction vehicles rebuilding the abandoned railway line.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don't worry about there being no business case and a complete waste of money. Give them a railway line that won't be used when the costs could be better used in local welfare, education and healthcare.

(I wish I could drink all day and post on Railpage Australia™...)

I'm going to ignore the first bit you mentioned but in any case it could apply to labor if they were in power. Labor had every opportunity during the election in march to go out there and try to win that seat by promising water drops and re building the rail line. You should think of rebuilding the rail as welfare for bourke. It can take water and green waste as food for animals now but could bring out grains, wool and beef from along that route later.

Sure you could build a water pipe or use trucks instead but you are going to need at least 100 trucks to do what could be done by a dozen loco's. Imagine what damage those trucks would do to the road which has most likely only recently been sealed I'd imagine.

Sure it may not have a business case and as for money that really isn't a problem for NSW at the moment when considering how many billions of dollars worth of infrastructure is being spent in Sydney and the east coast at the moment. How can you say no to a few million on a region of the state that is very vulnerable at the moment when so much money is being thrown around Sydney.
simstrain
You would be disillusion to think rebuilding the line was a missed opportunity for any political party with some level of standing in the community. No state govt will let a town run dry, they don't to use this in an election campaign.

You still haven't identified what traffic will use the line. Remember its 2019, not 1919, trains need to be over 1000t and run a few days a week at the very minimum and that's to keep a line open, not cover the costs to rebuild.

And seriously Sim's, do you Seriously believe, I mean seriously believe its worth upgrading 200km of track for 400t a day of water? Thats 400t worse case seriously the river runs dry.

Again as you have failed to even bother with Google
- There is no beef, its sheep/goat country
- If there a prolonged drought, there is no sheep/goats, they will be moved, killed or die. The newly opened goat abattoir has closed due to lack of goats
- Meat is only transported by rail once the animal is dead and only if there is a rake load available a few times a week and usually loaded from local transport hub, not its own branch line.
- Your comments on green waste cannot be taken seriously and you have no idea of the lack of tonnages required and practically available to be viable on rail. Hell Sydney's total rubbish tonnage is what 1-2 trains a day?
- The wool tonnages are not worthy of rail

Again, please look up what tonnages were on this line prior to closure.

- 400t/day or water is not 100 trucks, please use a calculator next time.
- A water pipe will be a fraction of the cost of upgrading the line.

Seriously, you think the Mitchell highway was only recently sealed? It was sealed decades ago!

You think it only costs a few million to reopen a line 200km long that has been closed for 30 years?  Think >80% resleeper program, major ballast etc etc

You think a town of
  SinickleBird Assistant Commissioner

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
... and major washaways due to flooding in past years.

It isn’t just re-sleepering and fresh ballast. Considerable number of floodways to receive culverts or bridge or causeway.

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