Sydney Trains S Set - Scrapping has recommenced :(

  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Based on the above T4926 is not a surprise given that they kept T4961, but I'll say that C3912 is a surprise given it's the first Mark 3 contract car and they've shifted that away numerous time to prevent it going to scrap.

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  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Some photos by Steve Burrows which shows some of the cars that will head off to scrap being stripped for parts, includes the likes of C3915, C3891 (S100), C3976, etc. Photos taken at Flemington MC on September 2, 2019

  C3765 Train Controller

The description makes it sound as if though those 5 cars are the only cars going to Chullora. Although C3912 and T4926 are parked right in front of it, it did not look like they have been stripped of parts and not a single car other than the 5 previously mentioned cars appeared in the photo. C3861 seems to be part of the Set next to the scrap train.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

It seems though based on the description that the cars will be heading off to scrap in the next 1.5 - 2 weeks. When they move stuff off tO scrap they sometimes collect one lot of cars off one road, then a second batch off another, to that end, we'll see if C3861 survives. Shame about C3912 if that one goes, you certainly can't keep everything, but the Mark 3 contract was actually split in 2 (3912 - 3936) and (3937 - 3986) was the extension of that contract.

No sighting of the other set you mentioned with C3871-D4003-T4983-C3XXX, however, based on what you have posted the other car may be C3947 which was already connected to T4983 (ex S140), in which case you have half S135 + half S140. There might be one last re-shuffle though and the composition of this 4 car set may change. Maybe C3861 will be swapped in for 3871. Who knows.
  C3765 Train Controller

From my last minute observations, the final consist of the scrap train will be
(facing towards the city) C3931-T4037-T4030-C3930-C3748-T4018-C3976-C3891-C3915 (9 Cars in length)

I could have missed a few cars but the consist will be something like that. It looked pretty short. 9 Cars makes sense as it was said that approximately 8-cars will form the final batch.

They may be keeping a few extras to potentially restore them to original condition, just like how they are currently applying the PTC livery to W3. It would certainly be more interesting to see a couple cars returned to its original condition so that not all of them are in the refurbished citydecker state. Other restoration projects such as set U2 definitely have a higher priority but maybe in a few decades time they will have the time and resources to do so.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

That scrap consist you mention, were all the cars connected up to each other? An eventual retro restoration to as close to original condition one day would be interesting, although for that, hopefully some of the Beclawat windows they took out of them in the 1990's have survived.
  C3765 Train Controller

The final batch of cars to go is C3915-C3891-C3976-T4018-T4141-C3748-C3871-C3912-T4926-T4002-C3947-C3930-T4030-T4037-C3931, leaving only 12 or 13 Cars at FMC (depending on whether there were 27 or 28 Cars before the final batch was taken).

There will be enough cars retained at FMC to form a further 4-Car set which will likely operate alongside the other 2 officially preserved sets.

The cars are: C3057, C3861, D4003, T4983

It is unknown whether there is a fifth car.

Hopefully, when the Ks, Cs and Vs are retired in the next decade, more will be kept intact and retained or sold, especially the Ks and Cs because they’ve have had all of its asbestos removed back in 2017.

Edit: The cars have not been sent to Chullora yet, the cars were just hiding behind some other sets. They are still at FMC for now.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

Looks like that will be the other 4 car set they said they would retain. Out of the cars sent to scrap, still a bit surprised about C3912 to be honest.
  C3765 Train Controller

The 15-Cars have not been transferred yet and remain at FMC. I thought they had been transferred as there was a rumour floating around online and on top of that I was unable to spot the cars on Wednesday.
  C3765 Train Controller
  C3765 Train Controller

The previous consist I mentioned (C3915-C3891-C3976-T4018-T4141-C3748-C3871-C3912-T4926-T4002-C3947-C3930-T4030-T4037-C3931) seems to have been cut down to about 8 Cars. C3947 was the first car. An A Set was right in front of it so there were no further cars in front of it. I’m not sure of the whereabouts of the rest of the cars from the original 15 Car Consist.
  C3765 Train Controller

Effective from the 1st of July 2019, in the case that heritage set F1 requires recovery, an S Set (or K Set) is to be used to recover the set.

12. If recovery is required, the following conditions shall be followed:
a. The recovery set shall be an S or K set.
b. Prior to coupling the BP and MR hoses, the S or K set compressor governor cut out setting shall be adjusted down from the normal 800 kPa to approximately 690 kPa. This shall be carried out by a qualified fitter or electrician to ensure correct adjustment.
c. The BP and MR shall be coupled and confirmed to be continuous throughout the consist.
d. Only the automatic air brake shall be utilised, EP is not permitted.
e. The maximum speed during recovery shall be reduced to 60 km/h outside of platforms and 20 km/h when passing adjacent platforms.
13. A copy of this TOC Waiver shall be in all driving cabs of set F1.
Transport Assets Standard Authority
  C3765 Train Controller

The third 4-Car S Set has finally been revealed by SETS!

S-set Preservation ! The officially preserved cars are as follows:- C 3805 and T 4150 for museum display. S56 - C 3001, T 4101, T 4961 & C 3862 as the official operational preserved set for Transport Heritage/Sydney Trains. S28 - C 3986, T 4050, T 4013 & C 3765 are officially retained as an additional 4 car set held by Sydney Trains. "S1" - C 3861, T4003, T4983 & C 3057 is expected to be the final retained set.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Chullora, Monday Evening, November 4, as at 1645 hours, sighted the following 15 Cars in residence:-

From the Sydney End:-
Row 1:  3947P,  4002,  4926P,  3912,  3931P,  4037P,  4030P,  3930P.
Row 2:  3871P,  3748P,  4141,  4018P,  3976np,  3891np,  3915np.

The Letter "P" next to a Car Number, refers to a rather large black letter P under the Car number on both sides of the car.
All Passenger doors and Crew doors, on these cars are closed.

The letters "np" next to the Car Number, denotes No Pantograph on the car with some Passenger doors in an open position.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The location of the scrapping has been found°53'06.0"S+151°03'45.2"E/@-33.8852113,151.0620379,170m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d-33.884992!4d151.0625431
  C3765 Train Controller


S56: C3862-T4961-T4101-C3001 is a four car set.

S1: C3057-T4003-T4983-C3861-(and S28) C3765-T4013-T4050-C3986 are coupled together, forming an 8-Car Set.

I think they all retained by Sydney Trains. S56 for when a 4-Car Set is required and S1/28 for 8-Car operations, meaning no operational S Set cars have been purchased by SETS.

C3840-T4058-C3814 are the only cars left which SETS could purchase. All 3-Cars are safe for now I think although in non-operational condition. If at least one car is purchased in the future, then we may see an operational Series 1 power car one day replacing one of the Series 2 or 3 Cars on tours. Maybe for the 50th Anniversary of C3805 on the 10th of May 2022.
  C3765 Train Controller

Possible Survival of Car C 3748

One of the cars sent to Chullora may actually have survived it’s fate at Chullora! After the cars were sent to Chullora and lined up in the order Scott has outlined above, the cars were scrapped one by one in the order they were in except for one carriage; C3748. A post on Facebook from a while ago showed car C3748 alone at Chullora with the caption claiming it was the final car but according to the order they were lined up, it wouldn’t have been the last car as C3871 was behind it, unless it was set aside. Perhaps somebody realised that they needed a spare motor car or whatever and decided to organise a last minute rescue similarly to T4150. Another detail I caught was the absence of scrap metal lying around the lone car indicating time had passed since the destruction of the car before. I don’t think they cleaned up after every carriage was destroyed and even if they did after a few, why would they leave one car? Why not finish them all and then clean. I think the only reason the user was even able to take a photo of what they thought was the final car was because the carriage had been left there otherwise the chances would’ve been slim. The post alone doesn’t really prove anything but the evidence that got me thinking about this was the inclusion of “C 3748” in the list of heritage carriages published in January of this year. It was listed with the other 14 preserved cars.

This carriage in particular, has somehow managed to avoid being scrapped on multiple occasions before and may have done so again. Initially this carriage was on S28, however when this set was withdrawn it stayed behind at FMC, out of sight with two of its pals while the rest of S28 and a couple other sets were sent to Chullora. It continued to stay hidden for months after its withdrawal and watched the rest of the cars retire from service. Even after the retirement of all S-Set cars, C3748 was not sent with the other cars to Chullora and instead remained at FMC. Later in the year, more than 6 months after its retirement, it finally left FMC as part of the final 15 carriages to Chullora.

I have just checked the list again and have realised there may have been a swap of cars. Car C 3861 previously thought to have been on Set S1 is no longer on the list and carriage C 3814 has made it on to the list.

The current list found on the 17th version of the TOC manual has the following cars under “Sydney Trains - Heritage Train/ double deck suburban cars”

C 3001, C 3057, C 3805, T 4101, T 4150, C 3748, C 3765, C 3862, C 3896, T 4003, T 4013, T 4050, T 4961 and T 4983.

This poses two questions.
1. Does C 3748 still exist?
2. Where is C 3861?
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

I had a look at the TOC Manual which was issued 15 January 2020. You are right that they mention C3748 one of the heritage cars and C3861 is not listed. More than likely when the TOC was written there may have been a toss up whether C3861 or C3748 was to be kept. Some time after the document was written there was probably a decision made to keep C3861 instead.
  C3765 Train Controller

May 2020 Update:

I can now confirm car C3861 is at Flemington Maintenance Centre. It was sighted as part of an interesting 7-Car consist today (14/05/2020).

From the city end: C3986, T4050, T4013, C3861, T4983, T4003, C3057

All cars were coupled together. The whereabouts of C3765 is now a mystery. Set 56 along with C3765 were not sighted but were probably stored elsewhere in the maintenance centre out of view.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The September 2020 TOC wavier states that C3748 is a heritage car, as it has been printed twice in a row it would mean that it is indeed the replacement for C3861

C3861 has probably been sent to scrap by now
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Back in January this year, 3 cars were left standing on the scrap line at Chullora: 3748, 4037, and 4030.
As at January 31, 3748 was the only car left on that line.
As at February 14, 3748 was gone.

Since then Scrap has been removed from the site and the Scrapper is on another Job elsewhere.

As C3765 confirmed above on May 14, 3861 was sighted at FMC.

The question is did 3748 return to FMC for inclusion in the TOC Manual ?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
A TOC waiver (TW: 203-1031) was released several days ago regarding the preservation of S set carriages.

It appears that SETS have indeed received a 4 car set, that being C3057, C3861, T4983 and T4003.

The THNSW carriages are C3001, C3805, C3814, T4101, T4150, C3765, C3862, C3986, T4013, T4050 and T4961.

This seems to contradict all previous official statements made over the past year, including 4 separate iterations of the TOC manual, which all stated that 3748 was preserved and that 3861 was not.
  C3765 Train Controller

S-Set Transfer to Chullora Heritage Hub

8-Car S-Set will be transferred to Chullora tonight.


Today, SETS has agreed for our S Set to be temporarily transferred to indoor storage at the Heritage Hub to free up space for various projects being carried out at Flemington Maintenance Centre. This need for space will see most heritage electric sets temporarily removed from Flemington with the exception of the Sydney Trains W Set. Seen below, is our own C3861 receiving its final battery charge before moving to storage. The transfer, consisting of four SETS cars and four Sydney Trains cars, will take place late this evening.
The Sydney Electric Train Society

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