Southern Model Supply C38

 
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have already orderes  some bogies for Kerroby Models. they have a teder kit there too. I'm hoping jus tthe bigies fo rme.  It wil lbe a good cheap 38. my "expensive 3801" is on the turntable road not working awaitign a reset or worse.

http://kerrobymodels.com/ho-scale-38-class.html?page=all

Regards,
David Head

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  a6et Minister for Railways

Had the 38 cl model been done more correctly & in line with some of the models coming out of China, even at a bit higher price, they could have captured a very much broader market.

Are you saying that somehow Hornby could have a model like the Eureka model made at a lower price than Eureka could?

And if the price was higher, why would they sell more models?

They may sell many more simply because the price is lower.  There may be a market for these just as there was in the 1980s probably among people who don't read Railpage....

Peter
M636C
Not at all Peter, my primary point with this model and in what I said was simply that a fair number of models that have been produced in China for the Oz market have had their fair share of issues in regard to certain areas with them, yet they at least pass in as far as detail areas and ones that I have purchased in the past.

Looking at this model the killer for me is the overt & oversized external detail areas on the model, cover plates with bands that were not on 38cl, the size of rivets along a channel each side of the loco.  There are some other items that stand out for me, & enough that has me puting my wallet away.

As for the price, had those primary areas of oversized detail including an error with the firebox cover plate which has been a part of pretty much all the 38cl models except the Lima models, is a disappointment, & had those areas been done properly how much extra would it have cost to have more realistic detail areas than the oversized ones on show with this model.
  Bills_Billboards Chief Commissioner

Noticed these are available in Toyworld Greensbough store
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
As I am not into NSW modelling much, just need a few trains to arrive on the SG side of Albury platform Smile
I did speak to Russell from Alco World to find that the model has been upgraded by Hornby. Russell had several versions of 3806 fitted Loksound decoders for $500. Truly a bargain especially as it has a 5 pole skewed armiture motor fitted and near RP25 standard wheels.
The pic shows fine wheel flanges, typically wide though. As well as a flywheel and a boiler back head. Which is nice. Russell tells me the sound was fitted into the boiler which means I should have less trouble coupling it to the tender. Loking at Al's post ahead, should be an easy upgrade?
Have not seen mine yet. But should arrive soon.
Cheers

Rod
  Mansfield Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
As I am not into NSW modelling much, just need a few trains to arrive on the SG side of Albury platform Smile
I did speak to Russell from Alco World to find that the model has been upgraded by Hornby. Russell had several versions of 3806 fitted Loksound decoders for $500. Truly a bargain especially as it has a 5 pole skewed armiture motor fitted and near RP25 standard wheels.
The pic shows fine wheel flanges, typically wide though. As well as a flywheel and a boiler back head. Which is nice. Russell tells me the sound was fitted into the boiler which means I should have less trouble coupling it to the tender. Loking at Al's post ahead, should be an easy upgrade?
Have not seen mine yet. But should arrive soon.
Cheers

Rod
comtrain
Rod,
I've recently developed a new sugarcube style speaker to suit the C38 model with a decoder located in the engine. A batch of them head north today for installation in some of the ARM models.

https://www.dccsound.com/speakers
  Moses Wong Station Master

As I am not into NSW modelling much, just need a few trains to arrive on the SG side of Albury platform Smile
I did speak to Russell from Alco World to find that the model has been upgraded by Hornby. Russell had several versions of 3806 fitted Loksound decoders for $500. Truly a bargain especially as it has a 5 pole skewed armiture motor fitted and near RP25 standard wheels.
The pic shows fine wheel flanges, typically wide though. As well as a flywheel and a boiler back head. Which is nice. Russell tells me the sound was fitted into the boiler which means I should have less trouble coupling it to the tender. Loking at Al's post ahead, should be an easy upgrade?
Have not seen mine yet. But should arrive soon.
Cheers

Rod
Rod,
I've recently developed a new sugarcube style speaker to suit the C38 model with a decoder located in the engine. A batch of them head north today for installation in some of the ARM models.

https://www.dccsound.com/speakers
Mansfield
Wouldn't it be better to use the empty tender to fit a decent speaker rather than cram a tiny box in the boiler?
Even sugar cubes need correct enclosure volume to reach their design specs.

MJW
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
But it's a lot more realistic for the locomotive to be chuffing rather than the tender.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Wouldn't it be better to use the empty tender to fit a decent speaker rather than cram a tiny box in the boiler?
Even sugar cubes need correct enclosure volume to reach their design specs.

MJW
Hi Moses

Some knowledgeable sound experts in the USA wrote an article about speakers about 10 years back, before these phone speakers were commonly used. I remember that 0.3 watt 8 ohm cheap speakers (like the ones Traino use)  were tested without a speaker box, and with various shapes and sizes.
As well they glued the speakers to flat pieces of plastic and found the best box was no better than a flat 6 inch square of plastic with the speaker mounted in the middle. The thicker plastic sheet was better than thin sheet. A loco body also enhances the quality of the speaker if it is mounted properly.
Even if I can get a bigger speaker in the tender, I try to mount a small speaker in the locomotive. You can really hear the sound coming fro where the sound is supposed to originate Smile   And it is really convenient to lose the multi wire connection between loco and tender if your locos do not live on a layout permanently (such as club running)
Cheers
Rod
  Lloyd1952 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sydney, Australia
I did a quick load trial with my 3806 and it easily lifted 25 four wheel wagons plus van from a standing start halfway up a 1in 50 grade. It would have handled more. Hopefully it will be a long term reliable locomotive. There is some very nice modelling happening on Facebook in the ARM C38 class  Modellers group.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

But it's a lot more realistic for the locomotive to be chuffing rather than the tender.
lkernan
Not if the sound is rubbish. I have observed that if you make the sugar cube box to small it becomes quieter and looses the low frequencies. I stick with proven sugar cube designs, either based on the Zimo speakers or with properly researched and tested designs. The best value properly designed versions can be found at https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/johnezee66?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Terry Flynn.
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

I did a quick load trial with my 3806 and it easily lifted 25 four wheel wagons plus van from a standing start halfway up a 1in 50 grade. It would have handled more. Hopefully it will be a long term reliable locomotive. There is some very nice modelling happening on Facebook in the ARM C38 class  Modellers group.
Lloyd1952
If the models tooling was crisp, fine and accurate you would not need to rebuild the model. You still end up with steam roller width wheels unless you re machine them or replace them.

Terry Flynn.
  Garahbara Station Master

Location: Northern Rivers, NSW
I too have spoken to Russell at Alco World.  Best knowledge I can find about putting sound in ARM's 38 Class.  Uses a Loksound Micro V5 with wiring harness and NO PLUG.  He solders an 8 pin plug onto the wiring, making sure the connection wiring and lengths will fit in the loco.  Puts together an appropriate sized sugar cube speaker, and loads the "best fit" project from ESU.  All put together so it will fit nice and snug.

Having said that, though, he's putting together an ESU Loksound decoder and speaker for me to fit nicely.  But it was his last decoder, until more stock comes in.

I mean, I could have put together the decoder, plug and speaker myself, but what the heck.  I'm into "plug'n'play" Very Happy

Russel was able to tell me everything I needed to know about the 38 class.  How to take it apart, pickups, drive wheels (only driven from one axle/wheel, connecting rods do the rest), tender, the lot.  Far far more info than I could find from anyone else.

I'm happy.Laughing

TOOT!

Alan.
  Garahbara Station Master

Location: Northern Rivers, NSW
Well, That's my modelling effort over and done with for the day. Very Happy

First, I shopped around, online stores, to check availability. Most had stock. Looking good. Laughing

So off I went sorting out the decoder, which one, how when where why.  (see above post).  Looking good. Laughing

Now to go get myself a loco.  Go back to the online stores.  SOLD OUT......... SOLD OUT......... SOLD OUT and SOLD OUT. Sad

Some further hunting and found Metro Hobbies (Melbourne).  Phoned instead just to make sure, and yep.  All good. Laughing

Took the order over the phone while they had one in their hot little hands.  They tell me they had six left.

Now that that is all sorted, better go mow the lawn. Cool

TOOT!

Alan

http://garahbara.blogspot.com/
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

On the ARM 38 that I have I checked all the wheels the wheels are all in proper BTB gauge on both loco and tender according to my NMRA gauge sorry Terry Flynn. I also checked the wheel width and those on the tender are to or very near the NMRA width for a wheel, however on the loco itself that are a gnats eyebrow too wide and no wheel would fit into the gauge.  The flanges seem to be a bit deep as well but not real deep Pizza cutters like old Lima. It runs nicely and I am going to convert the tender to bogies using the existing underframe and cutting away the boxes that the wheels sit into and fill up the resulting holes etc and build up the bogie mounts.  I also intend in converting it this way to add extra pickups from the tender as well to further improve the running of it. One good thing about converting it to actual bogies is that the sagging back coupler can be removed and a proper mount made for it.  My rear coupler on my brand new model had drooped so that it was nearly a full Kadee number 5 knuckle height distance down.  I replaced the back plastic clone knuckle coupler on it with a Kadee number 17 short underset NEM clip in coupler as a temporary expedient, till I do the conversion and that bought it back up to exactly the right height.

One thing I have found though is that the front bogie box on the tender makes it very hard to put the draw bar on as it is too close to the draw pin, you can get it on using a fair bit of force but you might really need to remove some plastic from the front centre of that box to get it on a bit easier. Of course converting it to bogies also nullifies that problem as well.

Yes I know I can get a kit for a new underframe with bogies, but I want to use as much of the original model as I can and save a little money doing it.  I have the tender bogies on order and they should get here next week.
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
apw5910
We sure have but at least the Lima model with proper bogies on the tender although they were a bit short in the wheelbase would go around a train set type tight curve straight out of the box. And really about the only thing on the tender that needed fixing for most was the tool box removed under it between the bogies and a new back flat piece behind the tender coal space, one other good thing about the Lima 1980's model it did have pick ups of sorts in the tender as well. and it could be easily converted to have one tender bogie set up to pick up from the other rail as well without too much trouble and excessive wiring.  But yes we have come a long way.  I would have honestly thought that the days of hacking up a model to make it a lot better were over but obviously not.

One good thing about these models though to improve it in the owners eyes at least is some will actually have to resort to modelling rather than what a lot call plonking.  So it is good at least for that as well.

I have tested the wheels on the original set of ARM wheels and they have one side insulated and one side live so anyone wanting to have pick ups on the existing tender can do it with a bit of thinking.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I remember going through similar hacking and bashing with my Lima 38 model back in the 1980's. We've come a long way, haven't we?
apw5910
We sure have but at least the Lima model with proper bogies on the tender although they were a bit short in the wheelbase would go around a train set type tight curve straight out of the box. And really about the only thing on the tender that needed fixing for most was the tool box removed under it between the bogies and a new back flat piece behind the tender coal space, one other good thing about the Lima 1980's model it did have pick ups of sorts in the tender as well. and it could be easily converted to have one tender bogie set up to pick up from the other rail as well without too much trouble and excessive wiring.  But yes we have come a long way.  I would have honestly thought that the days of hacking up a model to make it a lot better were over but obviously not.

One good thing about these models though to improve it in the owners eyes at least is some will actually have to resort to modelling rather than what a lot call plonking.  So it is good at least for that as well.

I have tested the wheels on the original set of ARM wheels and they have one side insulated and one side live so anyone wanting to have pick ups on the existing tender can do it with a bit of thinking.
"DJPeters"



I had my first look at one today, & my opinion of them has improved a bit, there some things that are better than the promotional photo's showed, but there are some areas that are not too bad, although work is still needed.  The tender wheels all had to be gauged and adjusted which is also an issue with more expensive models. There is a farty plastic coupler on the tender which is too low, it is a push in type, something that Kadee also make and a replacement fixes the coupler height. No Whistle, and some other bits need to be found for it.  The adjusted gauge of the tenders side frame and wheels allowed the model to go around 29 inch radius curves. I was not told of a minimum radius for them though.

I was also told that there was a fix up or some other title available to purchase separately no idea from where though.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

To be honest the ARM 38 class steam locomotive and tender looks to have been designed by two teams one for the loco and the other for the tender.  The Loco is quite good runs well and has plenty of pull, but the tender looks like someone missed the first or all of the design meetings or something it looks more akin to a design for a static model of a 38 class rather than one that was intended to run. It does run though I will give you that. One bad error is the draw bar between the loco and the tender needs a fair bit of force to get it to go on and you might be advised to shave off some plastic from the front box nearest the pin on the tender to make it go on easier, it will on as is but it is very hard to do it though.


Yes there is a printed kit out to use as a replacement for the underframe and includes the bogies as well from memory. I have ordered a set of 38 tender bogies though and am going to remove the moulded on sideframes and boxes and build up new bogie mounts under the existing underframe. Hopefully it will not be hard to do though either way. I just want to reuse as much of the original as I can though.
  Batlow1959 Beginner

Control P models is who does the 3d printed tender underframe replacement kit. Pretty sure is about $50
  a6et Minister for Railways

To be honest the ARM 38 class steam locomotive and tender looks to have been designed by two teams one for the loco and the other for the tender.  The Loco is quite good runs well and has plenty of pull, but the tender looks like someone missed the first or all of the design meetings or something it looks more akin to a design for a static model of a 38 class rather than one that was intended to run. It does run though I will give you that. One bad error is the draw bar between the loco and the tender needs a fair bit of force to get it to go on and you might be advised to shave off some plastic from the front box nearest the pin on the tender to make it go on easier, it will on as is but it is very hard to do it though.


Yes there is a printed kit out to use as a replacement for the underframe and includes the bogies as well from memory. I have ordered a set of 38 tender bogies though and am going to remove the moulded on sideframes and boxes and build up new bogie mounts under the existing underframe. Hopefully it will not be hard to do though either way. I just want to reuse as much of the original as I can though.
"DJPeters"


As much as I see the model not having as many errors and the like, the cost of them at $300.00, seems a good price, but add $50.00 for the tender bogies, need to replace the tender coupler, then other items such as no whistle, the price soon goes up, not forgetting replacing the reverser, then the fix kit which is an unknown cost at this point of time, and at least $400.00 is galloping ahead.
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

That is true a6et but if you use as much of the original model as possible you can get out of it a bit cheaper. Whistles and the like are easily added in the future if it bugs you that much.  But all I am currently only going to spend on it to get bogies on the tender which is $30 as I have already ordered the bogies at $20 a pair plus $10 postage.  Should arrive any day now. So that amount takes it to $325 for me plus a bit of time which I have plenty of now.  

What I intend to do is to remove the dummy fixed side frames carefully first and then the boxes the wheels of the tender sit on, add some plastic styrene sheet doubled up to the top of the of the tender underframe, fill the holes created where the boxes were removed with some styrene sheet and build up bogie supports to suit the new actual bogies. I will reuse the original tender weights also screwed back in to the two pieces of 40 thou styrene sheet that will glued together on top of the underframe that I intend to put into the tender to hold it together a bit better and strengthen it. I intend to get my moneys worth out of it.  A new coupler on the rear is easily fitted after doing that though.

Maybe a days work or two days if I run into a problem or problems.  But I am not going much further with mine as once you start on minor detailing then it will as you said likely go to $400 or maybe even more.  Later I might consider adding some of the missing detail though.

I have not gone looking really for errors on the model just these errors I have found have caused some issues and really the errors found me and need to be fixed, not good though having to fix a brand new model though like this, a few small problems are neither here nor there really, but major ones like the coupling pin for the draw bar are a bit rich really, it should be easy to couple the tender to the loco unit and most would not want to try to force it to do it.  I do like the price though even with all the errors I found.
  a6et Minister for Railways

That is true a6et but if you use as much of the original model as possible you can get out of it a bit cheaper. Whistles and the like are easily added in the future if it bugs you that much.  But all I am currently only going to spend on it to get bogies on the tender which is $30 as I have already ordered the bogies at $20 a pair plus $10 postage.  Should arrive any day now. So that amount takes it to $325 for me plus a bit of time which I have plenty of now.  

What I intend to do is to remove the dummy fixed side frames carefully first and then the boxes the wheels of the tender sit on, add some plastic styrene sheet doubled up to the top of the of the tender underframe, fill the holes created where the boxes were removed with some styrene sheet and build up bogie supports to suit the new actual bogies. I will reuse the original tender weights also screwed back in to the two pieces of 40 thou styrene sheet that will glued together on top of the underframe that I intend to put into the tender to hold it together a bit better and strengthen it. I intend to get my moneys worth out of it.  A new coupler on the rear is easily fitted after doing that though.

Maybe a days work or two days if I run into a problem or problems.  But I am not going much further with mine as once you start on minor detailing then it will as you said likely go to $400 or maybe even more.  Later I might consider adding some of the missing detail though.

I have not gone looking really for errors on the model just these errors I have found have caused some issues and really the errors found me and need to be fixed, not good though having to fix a brand new model though like this, a few small problems are neither here nor there really, but major ones like the coupling pin for the draw bar are a bit rich really, it should be easy to couple the tender to the loco unit and most would not want to try to force it to do it.  I do like the price though even with all the errors I found.
"DJPeters"



David, I had a conversation with another modeller today and the primary focus was on this model.  Let me say that when I first saw the pre production or early problems with some of the model the things that stood out for me were items that are so wrong that for me the original Lima model was basically more accurate as far as the loco itself was, tender excluded.  I don't think I have any models & I count 20 in total and one of them will be sold as being a CR model I cannot see myself using it at all, and all in different degrees and levels have errors on them.

I worked on steam as a fireman for 10 years and then did a couple of specials that were steam hauled for a childrens foundation 2 years in a row and they were the last.  At the time I started my interest in model railways and slowly built up my collection, during this time I cancelled orders for 2 steam models that I wanted but when I saw the number of corrections needed I cancelled out, later I purchased a couple of other models from the same company, I was reluctant to do so owing to some areas of concern that I had, on receiving those models the previous areas of concern hit me big time when I opened the box of one of them, I then put it back in the box and sold them on Ebay. I lost probably $50.00 on them, but am glad of that choice, the reason simply is that whenever I see one of those models, and abjectly noticeable errors on them, are real turn off's as the models are so absolutely wrong in those areas.

Moving onto the Hornby model, I said early on that surely Hornby or whoever was responsible for the project and the process of getting the tooling done, why the number of problems especially with wrong detail, and the amount of it, would the model have cost more to produce had it been tooled up without those errors. Looking as I have but in most respects really only a casual look and not handling a model, some of the detail did not appear to be as bad as what I saw with the original publicity photo's of it. Problem though & its from my perspective & I know a lot will disagree with me, but when I look at the model, my eyes will always go to errors seen and those that are not on the model that should be. In other words missing items that should be on the model.

The model I saw, for me the green colour was far too bright, or garish, but I want to get a non streamlined 38 to pretty much complete my primary number of models, with a couple of other exceptions, but I will only get a RTR 38 in non streamlined and black in colour, maybe the black will camouflage the model to a acceptable degree.  I was once told by a model expert that my working on steam was a curse, maybe it was but, I also never believed that any model would ever be 100% accurate but what percentage of inaccuracies are acceptable, and that is something that everyone has to decide on for themselves.

I am basically doing the old see saw balancing part of the hobby, the alternative to this model is too expensive and also has its issues so for me its ruled out. When I get a chance to see one of these Hornby models in black, can sit down and take some time to work out how much work and added cost will be put into the model, then I will be able to determine whether I get one or not. At a bit of a distance it does not appear to be that bad, but the closer I get to the model and what really stands out as being wrong will be why say yes or no to the purchasing of one.

I have a bit of a better idea as to the work needed atm than I did before, but until I am content enough with seeing one I am going to pass on them.

I will be very interested to see what work you will do with your model and to see pics of them.  I had heard that besides the bogie kits, there was another kit that had other parts for the model, I wonder at the cost of them and access to them.
  sraexpress Beginner

For those that want to modify the tender, I have developed a kit available here: https://www.ctrlpmodels.com.au/shop/p/bogie-tender-kit-for-arm-c38

$50 includes the 3D printed parts, Auscision metal wheels, Kadee scale head coupler, and screws.

$40 gets you the 3D printed parts only if you don't require the other bits.

$10 flat rate postage
  GCMotorail Station Staff

It’s good to see Hornby (with ARM) producing a NSW steam loco. However, I’m wondering whether there might be a possibility to produce two versions as Hornby does with some of its UK models. Then we could have the current base version along with an upgraded version at slightly higher cost with additional detail, bogie tender with power pickup and an operating headlight. Just offering this as an idea to possibly further widen the appeal of the model.
  ajbrown Junior Train Controller

An updated version??   Aren't you able to get all that with the Eureka one?  Why reinvent the wheel?

Allan Brown

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