The corona virus COVID-19

 
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

We're overhead saying that they avoided quarantine by an astute rental car worker at least someone was doing the right thing

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Protestors in London this weekend singing praises of the COVID19 vaccine - language warning for the sensitive!



How on earth they're going to make a vaccine mandatory is beyond me - there's people all over the world who are going to refuse it.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Protestors in London this weekend singing praises of the COVID19 vaccine - language warning for the sensitive!



How on earth they're going to make a vaccine mandatory is beyond me - there's people all over the world who are going to refuse it.
don_dunstan
The new peasant class.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Don,

Your rhetoric regarding a complete shut-down of the private sector in Victoria deserves derision. The vast majority of people here remained busy at work in their non-government jobs small and large, just like I did in my full time private sector job, right through the pandemic.  

And, what skin in the game do you have regarding what happens in Victoria, apart from the people that you ran away from?
We're all in this together - the extreme measures in Victoria will be paid for ultimately by all Commonwealth taxpayers.

The real rate of job loss in the private sector is almost impossible to measure because you're not counted as unemployed when you're on JobKeeper - but the disruption to retail and hospitality (in particular) was huge - around 350,000 jobs gone from what I've read. Remains to be seen if they bounce back from this or not.

We also have an enormous smoke-screen covering the real damage being inflicted in the form of Keynesian borrowing the likes of which hasn't been seen since WWII. The Commonwealth is still - STILL - borrowing $5 billion a week to pump into the Aussie economy. If it wasn't for that Keynesian pump-priming the situation would be far worse but then they don't want us to see the true extent of the damage done do they.
don_dunstan
And the LNP, own that debt.
  kapow Junior Train Controller

Location: Melmac
Protestors in London this weekend singing praises of the COVID19 vaccine - language warning for the sensitive!



How on earth they're going to make a vaccine mandatory is beyond me - there's people all over the world who are going to refuse it.
don_dunstan

Just like with all vaccination programs you will encounter people who refuse to take part, the vast majority of the population will take part which leads to herd immunity. Just because you have a loud minority protesting doesn't mean a mass vaccination roll out won't work.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Probably less than a 1% chance they're infected.  Shouldn't have happened that they 'escaped' quarantine, but really a Storm in a Teacup.
Carnot

Not really a storm in a teacup, but similar incidents will probably occur in the future. Given the ease with which they did it, raises more questions than have thus far been answered, eg:
Why would German Nationals be granted a quarantine exemption?
Are they just handed out willy-nilly?
Were other passengers from the international flight allowed to board other domestic flights such as Brisbane?
If they were directed to a quarantine bus how did they get to the domestic terminal?
Why are domestic airlines allowed to issue boarding passes at international locations?
Has there been some sort of audit to see if this has happened before?
etc.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Don,

Your rhetoric regarding a complete shut-down of the private sector in Victoria deserves derision. The vast majority of people here remained busy at work in their non-government jobs small and large, just like I did in my full time private sector job, right through the pandemic.  

And, what skin in the game do you have regarding what happens in Victoria, apart from the people that you ran away from?
We're all in this together - the extreme measures in Victoria will be paid for ultimately by all Commonwealth taxpayers.

The real rate of job loss in the private sector is almost impossible to measure because you're not counted as unemployed when you're on JobKeeper - but the disruption to retail and hospitality (in particular) was huge - around 350,000 jobs gone from what I've read. Remains to be seen if they bounce back from this or not.

We also have an enormous smoke-screen covering the real damage being inflicted in the form of Keynesian borrowing the likes of which hasn't been seen since WWII. The Commonwealth is still - STILL - borrowing $5 billion a week to pump into the Aussie economy. If it wasn't for that Keynesian pump-priming the situation would be far worse but then they don't want us to see the true extent of the damage done do they.
don_dunstan
OK, so you've claimed some skin in the game by being Australian thereby % hurting like a Vic (your Aunty still misses you by the way), but you didn't justify your shrill reply to Valvegear that a COMPLETE shutdown of the private sector in Victoria was justified...as if it actually happened...but of course it didn't! Even though you suggested that it did!
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
as if it actually happened...but of course it didn't! Even though you suggested that it did!
DirtyBallast
Well, of course, Don doesn't let facts get in the way of a good argument!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
OK, so you've claimed some skin in the game by being Australian thereby % hurting like a Vic (your Aunty still misses you by the way), but you didn't justify your shrill reply to Valvegear that a COMPLETE shutdown of the private sector in Victoria was justified...as if it actually happened...but of course it didn't! Even though you suggested that it did!
DirtyBallast
Wasn't the economic devastation that happened there enough for you - you wanted MORE in order to prove that it really, truly was the worst financial disaster to hit this nation since World War Two? That basic fact alone should negate your demanding more evidence - but you're still not happy - you still want more evidence of the lives ruined, the businesses destroyed.

If you're really wanting more then just wait until all the printed money and the welfare runs out early next year - that was the facade that was papering over the rather huge cracks emerging in our economy. The Commonwealth can't borrow money at this rate forever just to pay recurrent expenditure items; someone will eventually have to pay it back. The RBA have even been buying state government debts with borrowed money to make it look like we're doing well: It's like paying the rent on your credit card and saying "see - my household is really prosperous". It won't last.
Well, of course, Don doesn't let facts get in the way of a good argument!
Graham4405
Oh please, Graham, when was the last time you came to this board with anything resembling a good argument.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
OK, so you've claimed some skin in the game by being Australian thereby % hurting like a Vic (your Aunty still misses you by the way), but you didn't justify your shrill reply to Valvegear that a COMPLETE shutdown of the private sector in Victoria was justified...as if it actually happened...but of course it didn't! Even though you suggested that it did!
Wasn't the economic devastation that happened there enough for you - you wanted MORE in order to prove that it really, truly was the worst financial disaster to hit this nation since World War Two?
don_dunstan
No, I wanted you to take responsibility for your own words.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
OK, so you've claimed some skin in the game by being Australian thereby % hurting like a Vic (your Aunty still misses you by the way), but you didn't justify your shrill reply to Valvegear that a COMPLETE shutdown of the private sector in Victoria was justified...as if it actually happened...but of course it didn't! Even though you suggested that it did!
Wasn't the economic devastation that happened there enough for you - you wanted MORE in order to prove that it really, truly was the worst financial disaster to hit this nation since World War Two?
No, I wanted you to take responsibility for your own words.
DirtyBallast
Again, hospitality and retail DID shut down, 350,000+ jobs were lost in Victoria. We're told repeatedly that services are the backbone of the economy and they weren't operating for months. So you were lucky enough to keep your job during that thing - good for you - that was the exception, not the rule.

"I want you to take responsibility for your own words" - righto Judge Dredd.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Here we go:

  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

In regard to the German travellers, this gibberish from Greg Hunt:

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt on Sunday morning said he had directed Border Force to investigate, but said the pair were detected by a "fail-safe" within the border control system.

"There are multiple rings of containment within the quarantine and border system and, ultimately, these passengers have been picked up within those rings of containment," he said on Sky News.

"But frankly we want to make sure that every ring is impregnable, and so we have asked the Border Force Commissioner to work with NSW on understanding the circumstances." -  Sydney Morning Herald

Given that they only came to the attention of authorities as the result of a security guard overhearing a conversation, there wouldn’t be too many ‘fail-safe’ systems of which chance is an integral part.

Must be vying for the job of Donald Trump’s Press Secretary.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
In regard to the German travellers, this gibberish from Greg Hunt:

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt on Sunday morning said he had directed Border Force to investigate, but said the pair were detected by a "fail-safe" within the border control system.

"There are multiple rings of containment within the quarantine and border system and, ultimately, these passengers have been picked up within those rings of containment," he said on Sky News.

"But frankly we want to make sure that every ring is impregnable, and so we have asked the Border Force Commissioner to work with NSW on understanding the circumstances." -  Sydney Morning Herald

Given that they only came to attention of authorities as the result of a security guard overhearing a conversation, there wouldn’t be too many ‘fail-safe’ systems of which chance is an integral part.

Must be vying for the job of Donald Trump’s Press Secretary.
kitchgp
As we learned during the Ruby Princess debacle, people arriving from overseas with potentially infectious diseases is apparently the responsibility of the various state government health departments - NOT Border Force. Which seems really strange to me but there you have it.

And all those German people did was run away from the queue for the bus to the quarantine hotel and go off to their flight to Melbourne - apparently nobody was watching them. It's as simple as that.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Why then is Greg Hunt claiming Border Force picked up the error?

PS: They were taken to the Domestic terminal by the police.
  7334 Chief Commissioner

Location: In the workshop wondering why I started 7334 in the first place
In regard to the German travellers, this gibberish from Greg Hunt:

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt on Sunday morning said he had directed Border Force to investigate, but said the pair were detected by a "fail-safe" within the border control system.

"There are multiple rings of containment within the quarantine and border system and, ultimately, these passengers have been picked up within those rings of containment," he said on Sky News.

"But frankly we want to make sure that every ring is impregnable, and so we have asked the Border Force Commissioner to work with NSW on understanding the circumstances." -  Sydney Morning Herald

Given that they only came to attention of authorities as the result of a security guard overhearing a conversation, there wouldn’t be too many ‘fail-safe’ systems of which chance is an integral part.

Must be vying for the job of Donald Trump’s Press Secretary.
As we learned during the Ruby Princess debacle, people arriving from overseas with potentially infectious diseases is apparently the responsibility of the various state government health departments - NOT Border Force. Which seems really strange to me but there you have it.

And all those German people did was run away from the queue for the bus to the quarantine hotel and go off to their flight to Melbourne - apparently nobody was watching them. It's as simple as that.
don_dunstan
Maybe even simpler.  First up I have a firm belief that if confronted with the possibility of there being either a stuff up or a conspiracy go with the stuff up as a conspiracy infers intelligent thought.

According to the Sydney Telegraph this morning it was a stuff up.  A police officer was under the impression that they were OK and waved them away from the quarantine queue to a connecting flight.

Since he was honest enough to own up to his error no action is planned against him.

If this is the case, and I always have a doubt about anything published in ANY newspaper, it is a stuff up.  Shouldn't have occurred just the same.

Should I await the usual comments about the Murdoch press or can we just accept that it sounds plausible enough to be true?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

What police officer would accept you telling him you had a driver's licence, without seeing physical evidence?
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Again, hospitality and retail DID shut down, 350,000+ jobs were lost in Victoria. We're told repeatedly that services are the backbone of the economy and they weren't operating for months. So you were lucky enough to keep your job during that thing - good for you - that was the exception, not the rule.

"I want you to take responsibility for your own words" - righto Judge Dredd.
don_dunstan
Don, I'm always impressed with your grasp of facts.

Keeping a job in Victoria -  "the exception".
Or did you mean the 3.3 million employed during October is exceptionally good. Cw 3.4 million in March
.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/employment-and-unemployment/labour-force-australia/oct-2020

DirtyBallast has already confirmed to you that the shut-down was nothing like you suggest.
350,000,  you need a better sense of proportion.

cheers
John
  7334 Chief Commissioner

Location: In the workshop wondering why I started 7334 in the first place
What police officer would accept you telling him you had a driver's licence, without seeing physical evidence?
kitchgp
None I would both expect and hope.

None of us was there at the time nor party to the deliberations of the police so we are not aware of what occurred in either situation.  The fact that there was no official action taken against the individual suggests that there might  have been more to the event than carelessness i.e. it was an understandable error rather than gross incompetence or similar.  Just the same I suspect he was "strongly counselled" over the matter and might be feeling lucky that is all that happened.

What it may have revealed was shortcomings in the procedures followed.  Again we do not know.

What is really important is that it does not happen again!

If you wish to crucify anyone and everyone even remotely connected to the events without knowing what really occurred I might start to wonder if your real name is Angus Campbell, but we won't go there!
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Well, of course, Don doesn't let facts get in the way of a good argument!
Oh please, Graham, when was the last time you came to this board with anything resembling a good argument.
don_dunstan
Unlike some, I don't come here to argue! Laughing
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

.........................................................................

If you wish to crucify anyone and everyone even remotely connected to the events without knowing what really occurred I might start to wonder if your real name is Angus Campbell, but we won't go there!
7334
Rather offensive and in no way relevant. There’s no accusation of conspiracy theories or of crucifying anyone. That neither the police officer, nor those he consulted, thought to verify that the passengers had an exemption just doesn’t cut it. It indicates wider systemic issues, such as poor training, etc. Did it happen before?
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
The Uk are going to have some trouble with a few on the vaccine front.  

It does not work as there is not an immunity response with the current vaccines.  I am not going to have it as it is a risk me thinks

  7334 Chief Commissioner

Location: In the workshop wondering why I started 7334 in the first place
.........................................................................

If you wish to crucify anyone and everyone even remotely connected to the events without knowing what really occurred I might start to wonder if your real name is Angus Campbell, but we won't go there!
Rather offensive and in no way relevant. There’s no accusation of conspiracy theories or of crucifying anyone. That neither the police officer, nor those he consulted, thought to verify that the passengers had an exemption just doesn’t cut it. It indicates wider systemic issues, such as poor training, etc. Did it happen before?
kitchgp
No more offensive nor irrelevant than suggesting that Hunt "Must be vying for the job of Donald Trump’s Press Secretary."

I took that as humour and that is how my comment was meant.

To return to the point, yes we need to ensure that there is no recurrence.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

A better explanation would suffice, rather than blaming the police officer. As for Greg Hunt’s claim the system worked. Really! Denialism in the extreme.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Would appear Google Chrome and Railpage are not on speaking terms on more work laptop so using my phone and sorry cannot quote.

Don
You said how will the govts get people to get the jab. Simple, make it a condition of doing a specific activity.

Alan Joyce has already stated it will be required for international travel. Expect countries to make it a condition of entry at a minimum avoid 2 weeks of self funded quarantine. For Australia which is almost bug free this will pretty much solve our problem. You already certain vaccinations to travel to some countries, one more is hardly an issue.

For places like UAE, they will know doubt make it a requirement of entry, visa renewal, school and other attendance as well as govt sector employees.

I believe the US already requires vaccinations of the usual stuff to go to govt schools.

Of course people at risk of CV will put up less resistance.

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