The corona virus COVID-19

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Mmm, no Irailfan, the currently offered vaccines, certainly those from Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA based vaccines, so far there are no strains of COVID known to bypass antibodies produced following these vaccinations.
Fair enough, I don't know how many strains of this thing there will eventually be, so are you more or less saying whatever strain comes out, the current vaccines will prove effective? (just asking).
lsrailfan
For new strains, yes, the Pfizer and Moderna (and other as yet unlicensed mRNA) vaccines will cover you more or less perfectly well. When scientists speak of strains they’re referring to variations in the virus that still keep it within the same serotype, the mRNA vaccines will work to produce antigens for the entire serotype.

Microbiology and genetics are not my primary area of expertise, so I am going to grossly over simplify the following so as to not lose myself and others in the strict details.

Should SARS-CoV-2 move beyond new strains and morph into new serotypes so this would mean variations like we see in Influenza A so these are the H1N1, H3N2, H18N11 (the latter only exists in bats) etc which you sometimes read about in ‘flu season’, then a specific mRNA vaccine for one of those would not protect you from the others.

The ‘good news’ is that mRNA vaccines are ‘relatively easy’ to convert to cover new serotypes, which is why we are relatively good at producing decent Influenza A vaccines relatively quickly as required for new serotypes.

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  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Mmm, no Irailfan, the currently offered vaccines, certainly those from Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA based vaccines, so far there are no strains of COVID known to bypass antibodies produced following these vaccinations.
Fair enough, I don't know how many strains of this thing there will eventually be, so are you more or less saying whatever strain comes out, the current vaccines will prove effective? (just asking).
For new strains, yes, the Pfizer and Moderna (and other as yet unlicensed mRNA) vaccines will cover you more or less perfectly well. When scientists speak of strains they’re referring to variations in the virus that still keep it within the same serotype, the mRNA vaccines will work to produce antigens for the entire serotype.

Microbiology and genetics are not my primary area of expertise, so I am going to grossly over simplify the following so as to not lose myself and others in the strict details.

Should SARS-CoV-2 move beyond new strains and morph into new serotypes so this would mean variations like we see in Influenza A so these are the H1N1, H3N2, H18N11 (the latter only exists in bats) etc which you sometimes read about in ‘flu season’, then a specific mRNA vaccine for one of those would not protect you from the others.

The ‘good news’ is that mRNA vaccines are ‘relatively easy’ to convert to cover new serotypes, which is why we are relatively good at producing decent Influenza A vaccines relatively quickly as required for new serotypes.
Aaron
Thanks for the reply, makes sense. Smile
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In simple terms, does all this equate to the fact that Australians are most likely to receive the apparently less effective Astrazeneca vaccine?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
AstraZeneca has shown some difficulty totally preventing the ‘South African’ strain of COVID - I presume the South Africans just call this ‘COVID’ in the last few days.

That said any Covid vaccine is going to be more effective than none.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

That said any Covid vaccine is going to be more effective than none.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.
Aaron
You would go to the expense and trouble of air freighting in one particular vaccine from Europe, (when it eventually becomes commercially available, currently its not) over just taking what ever is available in Australia?

International air travel without the vaccine may not be available or at least a year or more.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA

That said any Covid vaccine is going to be more effective than none.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.You would go to the expense and trouble of air freighting in one particular vaccine from Europe, (when it eventually becomes commercially available, currently its not) over just taking what ever is available in Australia?

International air travel without the vaccine may not be available or at least a year or more.
RTT_Rules
Note I wrote locally acquired first… There was a reason I did that.

I had an 7kg package express freighted from Poland to Adelaide in 8 days late last year, the freight charge was AUD22 or thereabouts, the father in law has already mentioned sending it across anyway, even if the freight was hundreds of dollars that’s still trivial dollars in comparison to the potential cost of getting the virus, everything else that goes with it, time off work, delivered food, etc.

‘Trouble’ is no issue, most of my wife’s family are medical specialists, getting an extra couple dozen doses to send here is hardly going to be a challenge for them.

If I need a COVID vaccine to travel then I will get myself stuck with AstraZeneca here then fly to Poland and get a mRNA version there.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

That said any Covid vaccine is going to be more effective than none.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.You would go to the expense and trouble of air freighting in one particular vaccine from Europe, (when it eventually becomes commercially available, currently its not) over just taking what ever is available in Australia?

International air travel without the vaccine may not be available or at least a year or more.Note I wrote locally acquired first… There was a reason I did that.

I had an 7kg package express freighted from Poland to Adelaide in 8 days late last year, the freight charge was AUD22 or thereabouts, the father in law has already mentioned sending it across anyway, even if the freight was hundreds of dollars that’s still trivial dollars in comparison to the potential cost of getting the virus, everything else that goes with it, time off work, delivered food, etc.

‘Trouble’ is no issue, most of my wife’s family are medical specialists, getting an extra couple dozen doses to send here is hardly going to be a challenge for them.

If I need a COVID vaccine to travel then I will get myself stuck with AstraZeneca here then fly to Poland and get a mRNA version there.
Aaron
Its one thing to ship something that requires a fridge, another for something that requires -50C or what ever.

However its nice to see that early in the vaccine roll out that some feel that its more important to hoard vaccines that would otherwise be used to protect people in areas need them and entitled too. Until such a time that vaccinations rates in central Europe have reached their peak, I would have thought it would be both unethical and potentially illegal to get some extra vaccines for distant rels living in a country that is mostly if not completely bug free.

You are very much unlikely to be able to travel in 2021 without the VAx from Australia for the purposes of tourism so you won't need vax's from Europe as you will be then be able to get one in Australia by that time.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In simple terms, does all this equate to the fact that Australians are most likely to receive the apparently less effective Astrazeneca vaccine?
YM-Mundrabilla
AZ has come under some concerns from a number of fronts for sometime, even before Sth Africa.

Meanwhile the likes of Sinopharm are being rolled out to over 1billion people before June.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Holiday Inn at Tullamarine is becoming a bit of a problem.  A few more cases today:


And super-spread by a nebuliser (which are meant to be banned):


"Gold Standard" quarantine, my backside...
  ANR Chief Commissioner

The Adelaide Advertiser has recently posted an article where an author is advocating for Woomera to be opened up for quarantine processing. As that is a paid subscription service, I am posting up this one.

https://theconversation.com/another-hotel-worker-tests-positive-in-melbourne-its-time-to-move-hotel-quarantine-out-of-cities-154820?utm_medium=ampemail&utm_source=email

The hotel outbreaks will keep happening. Covid and its many strains will be a fact of life for years to come - VAX or no vax. How can moving quarantine away from populations be so difficult? It is a no brainer. The states have already come to the realisation that hotel quarantine has had its day.
  allan Chief Commissioner

The issue is that hotels are not fit for purpose as quarantine centres. Even home quarantine is better, but still not good enough.

There is a growing realisation that this virus is not going to go away, and that purpose-built quarantine centres are necessary now, and for the forseable future. They will not be inexpensive. And, they will need to be federal government owned, funded and operated. There is no need to locate them in isolated regions, but, equally, locating them in CBDs presents unnecessary costs and risks.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
The hotel outbreaks will keep happening. Covid and its many strains will be a fact of life for years to come - VAX or no vax. How can moving quarantine away from populations be so difficult? It is a no brainer. The states have already come to the realisation that hotel quarantine has had its day.
"ANR"
I may be over-simplifying this, but I always reckoned that hotel air conditioning/ventilation systems were a pretty efficient way of transmitting the virus rather than isolating it.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Snap lockdown 3.0 imminent.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Snap lockdown 3.0 imminent.
Carnot
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Snap lockdown 3.0 imminent.
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
lsrailfan
My understanding is it will happen at Midnight tonight for 5 days. Oh by the way Chairman Dan, NSW quarantine is WAAAYYY better than you will ever have!
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
But what about the tennis?  Hardly an essential business.  
Imagine Dan explaining that the tennis was closed down for 13 contained cases.  The rest of the world would be laughing at him.  (Like most of Australia.)
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Snap lockdown 3.0 imminent.
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
lsrailfan
Yep, Dan to speak at 1pm. Seems funny to start it at midnight and give everyone the chance to get on the beers tonight but that is what I am hearing

6pm as WA did seems like a better option, let's see what he says
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Snap lockdown 3.0 imminent.
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
Yep, Dan to speak at 1pm. Seems funny to start it at midnight and give everyone the chance to get on the beers tonight but that is what I am hearing

6pm as WA did seems like a better option, let's see what he says
BrentonGolding
Agree, 6pm. Particularly being a Friday night.
The critical question is, do Dan Murphy’s deliver during a lockdown?
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

They have made the right decision. Hard and fast lockdown, don't piss about waiting around.

Five days is fine, I don't want the three month ordeal again.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
My understanding is it will happen at Midnight tonight for 5 days. Oh by the way Chairman Dan, NSW quarantine is WAAAYYY better than you will ever have!
lsrailfan


I wasn't aware this was a form of competitive sport. You have a curious take on this.

That said, I'd rather be in ANY Australian state than anywhere else on the planet.

Mike.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
My understanding is it will happen at Midnight tonight for 5 days. Oh by the way Chairman Dan, NSW quarantine is WAAAYYY better than you will ever have!


I wasn't aware this was a form of competitive sport. You have a curious take on this.

That said, I'd rather be in ANY Australian state than anywhere else on the planet.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Hey, it's your Premier that was only gloating about it a few days ago.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

5km travel limit in Country Vic as well?  Impractical and impossible.  Hopeless.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
5km travel limit in Country Vic as well?  Impractical and impossible.  Hopeless.
Carnot
Doesn't apply if you can't get essentials within your 5km. But yes, agree. Hope. Less.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
How is the lockdown enforced if the  Government just vaive the fines if you don't pay them?
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

Further to this, I am hearing that a snap 5 day lockdown of Greater Melbourne may be happening soon, the Andrews Govt is drawing up plans for one I believe.
My understanding is it will happen at Midnight tonight for 5 days. Oh by the way Chairman Dan, NSW quarantine is WAAAYYY better than you will ever have!


I wasn't aware this was a form of competitive sport. You have a curious take on this.

That said, I'd rather be in ANY Australian state than anywhere else on the planet.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Israilfan has been boasting for months about how well he thinks NSW is going with the virus and quarantine.

I think he's forgotten there is a hell of a lot of Australia that exists outside of the NSW borders that are doing just as well or better than NSW.

Realistically, other than Victorias 3 month lockdown period, every state has done, and continues to do, a pretty good job in regards to the virus and quarantine.

Anyone that thinks there won't be slip ups and "spot fires" at times is delusional!!

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