The corona virus COVID-19

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Don't suppose that any of you lot out there happen to remember who the genius was who approved use of the nebuliser thingy to ensure that the virus was atomised so as to ensure its easier transmissibility?
Didn't think so - no one else seems to remember either.
What is a nebuliser?
Gayspie
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=what+is+a+nebuliser

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  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Its one thing to ship something that requires a fridge, another for something that requires -50C or what ever.
RTT_Rules
Almost trivial.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.
Aaron
Dry ice in case you missed it in an insulated container will comfortably hold below -70C, that's some margin over -50C.

I had an 7kg package express freighted from Poland to Adelaide in 8 days late last year, the freight charge was AUD22 or thereabouts
Aaron
This morning I received a parcel (4kg according to the manifest slip) sent from Birmingham UK - YESTERDAY! Birmingham to suburban Adelaide overnight, delivered on a Saturday, AUD344 shipping - FedEx are AWESOME!

However its nice to see that early in the vaccine roll out that some feel that its more important to hoard vaccines that would otherwise be used to protect people in areas need them and entitled too. Until such a time that vaccinations rates in central Europe have reached their peak, I would have thought it would be both unethical and potentially illegal to get some extra vaccines for distant rels living in a country that is mostly if not completely bug free.

You are very much unlikely to be able to travel in 2021 without the VAx from Australia for the purposes of tourism so you won't need vax's from Europe as you will be then be able to get one in Australia by that time.
RTT_Rules
Not unethical or unlawful at all, we are still people, we still need to be treated, doctors don't go to all the trouble of study and then choose to ignore the health of their families. My wife, sister in law and brother in law are all Polish citizens, sending a dozen doses for them (including some 'security doses' which I can have) will hardly raise an eyebrow in Poland. Where do you think the small(ish) number of doses ordered by the Australian government are coming from? Certainly not the aether.

It's still in the 'if' arena, but if we do get Pfizer shipped it will be because the Pfizer vaccine is not locally available - but it's looking likely that it won't be.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Talking of vaccines, the Russian Sputnik vaccine appears to be one of the better ones.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/is-the-russian-vaccine-better-than-oxford-astrazeneca/13144076
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

What is a nebuliser?
Gayspie
You could google it and find out?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
"That said, once people are back, no one should be leaving until this thing is completely over.
Mr Lane

When we get this vaccine we open our international borders then what.. we probs don't die but some will get sick and the plebs here get the AZ vaccine with a lower efficacy

And New Zealanders get the Pfizer jab then they let covid in!

This kingdom bubble of mine sounds better by the day

King Doyle of Melton

Not an immunology expert


Since May, however have returned, less than 50,000. Yes, basically SFA and there is more waiting.
Back to topic.

Speaking purely about the stats, do you mean that Australia has only processed 50,000 returned travellers through the hotel quarantine system since May?

It's actually been 211,000 since March (hard to see that it was 161,000 between March and May) and there are still 40,000 yet to return:
Covid: Why Australia's 'world-class' quarantine system has seen breaches - BBC News

Overall, the hotel quarantine system has been hugely successful.
DirtyBallast
Since the hotel system and caps were implemented its around 3000 - 4000 a week average, max of 7000 / week is only for very limited periods before yet another F-up and the numbers reduced. So yes less than 50,000 since then which is around June/July last year which is when most started being released from local lockdowns, job losses realised etc.

In late April 2020 to early June 2020, there was a mad rush of people returning, so very very very easy to see 20,000 a week nation wide.

Agree, the hotel quarantine is mostly successful. It has been however a failure at planning and respect for those involved. The numbers too small, cancelled or reduced at short notice, failing to use even basic tests such as PCR to prevent most positive cases entering the country and pi$$ poor management allowing untrained and unreliable security staff and hotel staff.

The only thing I agree with regarding Dan the Man is that they have months to improve, yet he is as much part of the problem, maybe more so. Realistically he needs to go and hand the job over to someone else.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Its one thing to ship something that requires a fridge, another for something that requires -50C or what ever.
Almost trivial.

That said, I will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, either locally acquired, by getting it when we are allowed to travel to Europe, or shipped to me under dry ice from doctor family in Europe.
Dry ice in case you missed it in an insulated container will comfortably hold below -70C, that's some margin over -50C.

I had an 7kg package express freighted from Poland to Adelaide in 8 days late last year, the freight charge was AUD22 or thereabouts
This morning I received a parcel (4kg according to the manifest slip) sent from Birmingham UK - YESTERDAY! Birmingham to suburban Adelaide overnight, delivered on a Saturday, AUD344 shipping - FedEx are AWESOME!

However its nice to see that early in the vaccine roll out that some feel that its more important to hoard vaccines that would otherwise be used to protect people in areas need them and entitled too. Until such a time that vaccinations rates in central Europe have reached their peak, I would have thought it would be both unethical and potentially illegal to get some extra vaccines for distant rels living in a country that is mostly if not completely bug free.

You are very much unlikely to be able to travel in 2021 without the VAx from Australia for the purposes of tourism so you won't need vax's from Europe as you will be then be able to get one in Australia by that time.
Not unethical or unlawful at all, we are still people, we still need to be treated, doctors don't go to all the trouble of study and then choose to ignore the health of their families. My wife, sister in law and brother in law are all Polish citizens, sending a dozen doses for them (including some 'security doses' which I can have) will hardly raise an eyebrow in Poland. Where do you think the small(ish) number of doses ordered by the Australian government are coming from? Certainly not the aether.

It's still in the 'if' arena, but if we do get Pfizer shipped it will be because the Pfizer vaccine is not locally available - but it's looking likely that it won't be.
Aaron
I said -50C or what ever.

Cost and time to ship a normal box is irrelevant compared to a cryogenic container which has special requirements on what plane its allowed to be put on.

It would be unethical and potentially illegal to hoard a drug in limited supply in one country that has is struggling to control the virus and ship to another country where the virus is mostly under control. Just because you think it won't raise an eyebrow (and I believe your assumption would be incorrect) doesn't mean it is right.

Poland has 200,000 active cases, 5000 - 7000 new cases per day and 200 - 300 daily death. The overall death rate is higher than world average at around 3%. So yes I would consider it unethical and completely immoral for anyone in Poland to intentionally export the vaccine privately to a wealthy country would almost no local transmission any time soon. I'd also like to see the Polish govt's response to such a move, should it be attempted.

The Australian govt got in line and ordered the doses legitimately. You are effectively creating a private black market. The world has consumed most of the vaccines previously in storage from production prior to approval and now operating hand to mouth (for most vaccines).  

Perhaps Aaron what I could do to prove you right is through a Polish supplier we have to my work and I know some of these people quite well I could ask them on your behalf if its ok?  We have seen what's happened in the US and Can to the queue jumpers when caught out.

Once the mass roll out of vaccines is mostly complete and there is queues then I'm sure there would be no issue.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Unauthorised shipping of a vaccine from one Country to another would be regarded as drug smuggling (I don't think authorities would take very kindly to this type of activity)

If you want a vaccine you will just have to wait your turn.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean

The only thing I agree with regarding Dan the Man is that they have months to improve, yet he is as much part of the problem, maybe more so. Realistically he needs to go and hand the job over to someone else.
RTT_Rules
I understand completely why you are saying that.

Having said that are you absolutely sure it's not just another case of you demanding absolute perfection from the Left side of politics and judging them as having totally failed if your lofty standards aren't met, while ignoring any indiscretions from the other side of the fence, in order to justify your own biases?

Are you absolutely sure that a positive case will never ever escape hotel quarantine in Sydney under Gladys's watch? Ever? Will you be front and centre calling for her to be dropped to the bottom of the harbour if a case gets out?

Yes, mistakes are still being made in Victoria. Yes, sooner or later people should be held accountable. Yes, NSW has been doing far better regarding hotel quarantine. Interestingly though they have only just chalked up 28 days of no community transmission (Victoria achieved that target months ago, and got to 49 days without community transmission a couple of weeks before Christmas). Why are they so far behind? Is it Gladys's fault? Why not? Why not???
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

The only thing I agree with regarding Dan the Man is that they have months to improve, yet he is as much part of the problem, maybe more so. Realistically he needs to go and hand the job over to someone else.
I understand completely why you are saying that.

Having said that are you absolutely sure it's not just another case of you demanding absolute perfection from the Left side of politics and judging them as having totally failed if your lofty standards aren't met, while ignoring any indiscretions from the other side of the fence, in order to justify your own biases?

Are you absolutely sure that a positive case will never ever escape hotel quarantine in Sydney under Gladys's watch? Ever? Will you be front and centre calling for her to be dropped to the bottom of the harbour if a case gets out?

Yes, mistakes are still being made in Victoria. Yes, sooner or later people should be held accountable. Yes, NSW has been doing far better regarding hotel quarantine. Interestingly though they have only just chalked up 28 days of no community transmission (Victoria achieved that target months ago, and got to 49 days without community transmission a couple of weeks before Christmas). Why are they so far behind? Is it Gladys's fault? Why not? Why not???
DirtyBallast
No, not at all.

The outbreak in Syd, Adel and Perth were all contained quickly and mostly one offs.

NSW previously screwed up when it came to the Ruby Princess.  

Vic achieved those targets by shutting down the state for a month, so lets not get too excited.

Victoria was desperate for the Aus Open to proceed, (which I supported), however they haven't formed an island. Something that has been done successfully for similar major events elsewhere. Abu Dhabi has successfully run a number of "fight island" events with no leakage, its not rocket science.

NSW has moved something like 60% of all returning Australian's, not just those bound for NSW thus increasing their risk of leakage.

The issue with Vic now apart from some poorly timed chest beating by Dan on how good they, until they are not. Its that despite the fact that WA and SA have accepted more returning Australian's than Vic since June last year, each. Dan is now further chest beating saying we need this cold hard discussion to reduce numbers, yet other states have mostly managed far more than Vic, even with the odd glitch. Clearly the problem isn't with the hotels or even the new virus strain, its to do with the leadership in Vic.  

There are other labour states in Australia which are achieving similar results as NSW in hotel management.

My view is that all returning Australian's should only go to the state of their residence, thus the state Premiers decisions affect their people and only their people and that states that are forcing excessive delays in people returning to Australia or repeated bumping is fully visible.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
My view is that all returning Australian's should only go to the state of their residence, thus the state Premiers decisions affect their people and only their people and that states that are forcing excessive delays in people returning to Australia or repeated bumping is fully visible.
RTT_Rules
If that is true, then you totally accept that if each state has weaknesses, then so be it. Yet in your hyperbole laced diatribe a couple of pages ago you actually wished Dan Andrews harm because of the current situation in Victoria.

So what's the problem? What's the point of complaining about how one state compares against the other regarding hotel quarantine?

You yourself, said that if Dan can't manage the situation then he should hand that responsibility over to someone who can. Given your tacit agreement regarding the ineptitude of his opposite number, you must mean that Vic quarantine should be shut down and NSW and SA (for example) should be made to take Victoria bound returning travelers instead. Now you're saying that they shouldn't?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The ABC is now reporting NSW Health have now been messaging returned NSW residents (having returned from Victoria) to no longer isolate for 14 days but must isolate until advised further. What does NSW health know that the Victorian health authorities are not tell us down here in the south?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
“I know every Victorian on Monday morning wants to know whether this is going to finish on Wednesday night,’’ the Victorian Premier told reporters today. “I’m not in a position to be able to confirm that.”



People queue for Covid tests at Coburg Lake Reserve on Monday morning during Victoria’s stage 4 lockdown. Picture: NCA NewsWire / David Geraghty

Mr Andrew said Victorian health authorities have taken a conservative approach toward the Holiday Inn case and are acting with utmost caution.

A woman, who is asymptomatic and has not yet tested positive, is being treated as if does have the virus. Authorities are working to trace thousands of contacts as the woman is linked to a function in Coburg on February 6 as well as two Royal Melbourne Hospital run psychiatric units at the Alfred and Broadmeadows.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

This seems like a good idea

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/avalon-airport-pushes-nt-style-outdoor-quarantine-base-proposal-20210215-p572kn.html


I don't seem to be able to find out much about the vaccines and autoimmune compromised people ie diabetes and lupus and people whom have had an anaphylaxis episode

Lupus would be quite worrisome as the  cells once triggered may not know when to switch off
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Nice work by Leigh Sales at today's Dan Presser.  Gold!


The blue drip cultists have predictably lost their bundle.
  Carnot Minister for Railways
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

The ABC is now reporting NSW Health have now been messaging returned NSW residents (having returned from Victoria) to no longer isolate for 14 days but must isolate until advised further. What does NSW health know that the Victorian health authorities are not tell us down here in the south?
bevans
I suspect the authorities are now starting to think 14 days is not long enough.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

“I know every Victorian on Monday morning wants to know whether this is going to finish on Wednesday night,’’ the Victorian Premier told reporters today. “I’m not in a position to be able to confirm that.”
bevans
Via someone I know in public service circles, it has been suggested to me that the Governments strategy is to publicly initially understate what the length of snap lockdowns in the future will be so the public largely remains onboard, i.e. "its only going to be five days, no big deal," but then at the mid point the Government will start buttering people up for an extension which they pretty much intended from the outset to the the actual length of the lockdown.

Essentially if people were told that there would be a two week lockdown for 10 cases, there would be a bigger backlash and the public would be far less likely to comply.

We will see what actually happens. I am fine with this lockdown, but I would be disappointed if the Government wasn't being up front about its intentions. It makes things hard to plan.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
“I know every Victorian on Monday morning wants to know whether this is going to finish on Wednesday night,’’ the Victorian Premier told reporters today. “I’m not in a position to be able to confirm that.”
Via someone I know in public service circles, it has been suggested to me that the Governments strategy is to publicly initially understate what the length of snap lockdowns in the future will be so the public largely remains onboard, i.e. "its only going to be five days, no big deal," but then at the mid point the Government will start buttering people up for an extension which they pretty much intended from the outset to the the actual length of the lockdown.

Essentially if people were told that there would be a two week lockdown for 10 cases, there would be a bigger backlash and the public would be far less likely to comply.

We will see what actually happens. I am fine with this lockdown, but I would be disappointed if the Government wasn't being up front about its intentions. It makes things hard to plan.
Mr. Lane
All the way through this pandemic I'm not sure why people continually don't take what any government says at face value. I'm happy enough that Dan Andrews announced a five day lockdown and I'm happy enough that he apparently takes his advice from the relevant experts - but I'm not happy that he has to repeat that explanation over and over again, because the hacks at his pressers are only interested in getting a rise out of him.

I totally understand that he can't guarantee that the lockdown will be lifted on Wednesday night. It's a bit like saying the army can only help out with bushfires or floods for five days because if things go well everything should be fine by then. His team obviously need to see the data on Wednesday morning.

Perth did five days, from memory Brisbane did three and Auckland is doing three now. Better off to do five straight off the bat with fat already built in.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
My view is that all returning Australian's should only go to the state of their residence, thus the state Premiers decisions affect their people and only their people and that states that are forcing excessive delays in people returning to Australia or repeated bumping is fully visible.
If that is true, then you totally accept that if each state has weaknesses, then so be it. Yet in your hyperbole laced diatribe a couple of pages ago you actually wished Dan Andrews harm because of the current situation in Victoria.

So what's the problem? What's the point of complaining about how one state compares against the other regarding hotel quarantine?

You yourself, said that if Dan can't manage the situation then he should hand that responsibility over to someone who can. Given your tacit agreement regarding the ineptitude of his opposite number, you must mean that Vic quarantine should be shut down and NSW and SA (for example) should be made to take Victoria bound returning travelers instead. Now you're saying that they shouldn't?
DirtyBallast
I wished Dan the Man to leave the building because its clear their repeated mistakes are causing harm to both the Vic economy and the Australian economy as well as preventing 1000's of expat Victorians and others from returning to their country.

The point of comparing states and add NZ to this is how others have managed the exact same thing with alot less F_ups.

Yes, Vic govt should be shut down and out source the governance of the entire state NSW, Tas or SA  or maybe Jacinta in NZ because clearly the Vic govt and opposition don't have a clue on how to run the state and it certainly cannot run a quarantine centre.

Or more realistically I stand by my previous comments that returning Australian's should only be allowed to enter the country via their state or territory of residence. Perhaps then when there are no pending NSW expats and similarly other states, then we can all see how clearly F'ed up the People Republic of Vic really is!!!

Regards
Shane
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
All the way through this pandemic I'm not sure why people continually don't take what any government says at face value. I'm happy enough that Dan Andrews announced a five day lockdown and I'm happy enough that he apparently takes his advice from the relevant experts - but I'm not happy that he has to repeat that explanation over and over again, because the hacks at his pressers are only interested in getting a rise out of him.

I totally understand that he can't guarantee that the lockdown will be lifted on Wednesday night. It's a bit like saying the army can only help out with bushfires or floods for five days because if things go well everything should be fine by then. His team obviously need to see the data on Wednesday morning.

Perth did five days, from memory Brisbane did three and Auckland is doing three now. Better off to do five straight off the bat with fat already built in.
DirtyBallast
Ask yourself why does Dan the Man have to keep fixing his mistakes? No other state Premier or NZ is having to fix so many mistakes for so few people returning via the hotels !!!


Perth did five days, from memory Brisbane did three and Auckland is doing three now. Better off to do five straight off the bat with fat already built in.

Yeah once, Vic has done this how many times? Have any of those Premiers and NZ PM made claims they have the gold plated hotel system and then almost immediately thrown their state/country into lockdown  a few days later?

Vic and NZ are similar population size, both Labour run. So ask yourself these questions
1) how many Nationals has NZ allowed to return and how many Victorian's have been allowed to return?
2) Since June last year, how many Kiwi's have been bumped and how many Victorian's have been bumped from flights?

Its called Stockholm syndrome
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
“I know every Victorian on Monday morning wants to know whether this is going to finish on Wednesday night,’’ the Victorian Premier told reporters today. “I’m not in a position to be able to confirm that.”
Via someone I know in public service circles, it has been suggested to me that the Governments strategy is to publicly initially understate what the length of snap lockdowns in the future will be so the public largely remains onboard, i.e. "its only going to be five days, no big deal," but then at the mid point the Government will start buttering people up for an extension which they pretty much intended from the outset to the the actual length of the lockdown.

Essentially if people were told that there would be a two week lockdown for 10 cases, there would be a bigger backlash and the public would be far less likely to comply.

We will see what actually happens. I am fine with this lockdown, but I would be disappointed if the Government wasn't being up front about its intentions. It makes things hard to plan.
Mr. Lane
They did the same thing here in South Australia on the eve of the snap six day statewide lockdown late last year; the midday presser said six days, then when 7 News reader Jane Doyle went one on one with the premier during the 6 PM bulletin when he said an extra eight days could be added on if needed, and then during a special late bulletin of 7 news at around 10 30 PM there was also confirmation with a government official that yet another seven days could be added on as a last resort too.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Now where getting back to normal Shane. Anyways, what gets me is that Premier Dan  stands at his presser for 2 hours just like DB said, and when Gladys was under the pump with the Northern Beaches outbreak, which still seems a bit of a mystery, she would read a short statement, take 3 questions and just walk off before the going got tough. Funny that. As Premier Dan would say, "just a Liberal."



That"ll get a bite

Greg Hunt bragging about "the eagle has landed" With this bunch of Federal do nothings, I'm more inclined to think it's more Al Bundy. The Agarn has landed.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
My prediction is that Andrews will not lift the lockdown at 2359 Wednesday 17/2.
He will either apply another week or at least crib a few days after tomorrow.
Outdoor masks in my area at the moment is less than 50%.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Now where getting back to normal Shane. Anyways, what gets me is that Premier Dan  stands at his presser for 2 hours just like DB said, and when Gladys was under the pump with the Northern Beaches outbreak, which still seems a bit of a mystery, she would read a short statement, take 3 questions and just walk off before the going got tough. Funny that. As Premier Dan would say, "just a Liberal."



That"ll get a bite

Greg Hunt bragging about "the eagle has landed" With this bunch of Federal do nothings, I'm more inclined to think it's more Al Bundy. The Agarn has landed.
wobert
No bite, libs have difficulty when it’s gets tough.
Scomo has redirected questions to a minister on over 200 occasions during QT.
Julia Gillard as PM did it how many- ZERO.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

My prediction is that Andrews will not lift the lockdown at 2359 Wednesday 17/2.
He will either apply another week or at least crib a few days after tomorrow.
Outdoor masks in my area at the moment is less than 50%.
YM-Mundrabilla
If he extends the lockdown, I highly expect big protests this weekend.

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