Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Well you look for things to be outraged about so all I'm doing is giving you what you so desperately crave.
Another failed attempt at justification. Nobody in his right mind would believe such nonsense. One wonders what compulsion drives you into making a fool of yourself with silly statements like that one.
Valvegear
Sez "Angry of Mayfair" LOLZ! Go on, bash us with your umbrella before showing us your undies.

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Someone needs to seal up parliament house, fill it with disinfectant, and then flush it clean.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Umm, newsflash, you don't actually have to come here to read anyone's posts.

Ditto. But saying that I condone rape because I won't condemn fare dodgers was a vile thing to direct at me.
What are you going to do about it?
DirtyBallast
Keep calling you out as a poseur.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Someone needs to seal up parliament house, fill it with disinfectant, and then flush it clean.
Carnot
Why are any of these shock discoveries the least bit surprising? Of course its Sodom and Gomorrah on the hill... didn't everyone know that?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Last week I was watching Federal Parliament, and who else was in the gallery, none other than Bronwyn (I'm so important I need a chopper) Bishop, can you believe that the Libs had the gall to install her as speaker, what a bias little so and so she was at it as well, possibly the worst the Federal Parliament has had I reckon.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Ewwwwwwwwwe....  The prayer room!!!!

APH = Hades

The place should be cordoned off, it should be declared a biological Hazard and be allowed to sink into the abyss over a period of millennia.

The honourable members should be relocated back to the wedding cake.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Having just read the story by the security guard report over the Higgins case, a few things come to mind. Without touching on the alleged  sexual assault there are a number of WTF year is this issues that come to mind?

1) Visibly intoxicated staff should not be allowed past security, try that anywhere else and you'd be turned away or fired. The security guard said she had trouble taking her shoes off for the metal detector because she couldn't stand up straight. Warning bell the employee should not be allowed on site.

2) I would have thought in any business if security found an employee sleeping naked on a couch, even in their own office, the employee would be woken and told to get dressed and leave with an incident report filed for indecent exposure, not left and simply closing the door. If she was not able to get dressed due to intoxication, either security walk her out and call an emergency contact to pick them up or an ambulance called. Not close the door for her own privacy and send another female guard in a few hours. The follow up by HR would see the employee be issued with a please explain and likely loose their job, obviously in this case not, but would have potentially triggered a more detailed investigation than was done at the time.

Clearly there is a lax culture of both business security and employee behavior in our Nations Capital Offices that is by no means limited to sexual assault.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Clearly there is a lax culture of both business security and employee behavior in our Nations Capital Offices that is by no means limited to sexual assault.
"RTT_Rules"
That's what happens in a cloistered environment when everybody believes that they're answerable to nobody.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Clearly there is a lax culture of both business security and employee behavior in our Nations Capital Offices that is by no means limited to sexual assault.
That's what happens in a cloistered environment when everybody believes that they're answerable to nobody.
Valvegear
It's situations like these that the PM should get everyone in the room together (MPs, staff etc), lock the doors, read them the riot act while screaming at them like the Drill Sergeant in Full Metal Jacket, and finally a compulsory signing of a new water-tight code-of-conduct with no second chances.

Any dissenters would then be summarily sacked.

I'll never forget the all-in school assembly and dressing down by our high school principal one morning after a gutter fight in a public street by two Year 10 girls cheered on by half the school the afternoon beforehand...
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Makes Abbott look tolerable.

  Carnot Minister for Railways

To restore some sense of decency, certain men in cabinet need to step down (or be removed) and let some women take on several ministerial responsibilities instead.  I know of several female coalition backbenchers and senators who would do a great job at throwing the imbeciles out the front door.

Morrison is not doing himself any favors atm.  People want action, not what-aboutism. Disappointing.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Makes Abbott look tolerable.

michaelgm
Seems Scomo kicked an own goal today, Newscorp boss Michael Miller completely rejects his claim that a sexual harassment claim was made by an employee there, has Morrison mislead the nation??. - Scott Morrison’s harassment HR claim rejected by News Corp boss Michael Miller
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Clearly there is a lax culture of both business security and employee behavior in our Nations Capital Offices that is by no means limited to sexual assault.
That's what happens in a cloistered environment when everybody believes that they're answerable to nobody.
It's situations like these that the PM should get everyone in the room together (MPs, staff etc), lock the doors, read them the riot act while screaming at them like the Drill Sergeant in Full Metal Jacket, and finally a compulsory signing of a new water-tight code-of-conduct with no second chances.

Any dissenters would then be summarily sacked.

I'll never forget the all-in school assembly and dressing down by our high school principal one morning after a gutter fight in a public street by two Year 10 girls cheered on by half the school the afternoon beforehand...
Carnot
Valvegear, 100% correct

Carnot, may have already occurred and I'm sure its not limited to the right hand side of politics.

Looking at the comments from security
My further take on it

- Leaving the night club he's clearly up for it and suspect her as well, but why not go home? Married? I suspect she wasn't saying no to this point.

If they are with her friends or colleges, no one sees any concern with what they expect to happen. I say this because in the past I've seen girls step in when they think their friend is about to head off with a guy they think is not what she would want if sober.

- She arrived with a grass stain on her dress, either fallen over or they already tried to Tango in the park and got seen.
- Security knew what they were coming into the building for, should have told them to bugger off.

Fail #1 by security that manages Parliament House, again unlikely the first time. I'm sure many a male staffer has taken his latest pickup for a shag Parliament House as bragging rights.

- Once in the office, things likely started consensually and she simply passed out.
- The guy is a prick, so continues what he started.

This part I'll never get, F'ing a woman unconscious ???? Mrs Palmer would surely be more exciting!

- She wakes up again, likely too intoxicated to do much and he's almost done then passes out when he gets off.

She said she felt it had gone on for some time at this point, likely she was moving in and out of consciousness.

- He leaves, leaves her there, she passes out again as unlikely to have enough energy to even stand up for a number of hours.
- He leaves via security, they know something is not right and go check, but make no attempt to see if she is ok mentally.

Fail# 2, Security found her naked, but asleep, everything is normal apparently in the eyes of Parliament Security, likely far from the first time.

- No bruises, no marks and probably nothing but witnesses to say she was up for it before hand which would discredit her somewhat as a witness so she avoids reporting to the police.
- She talks to her sisterhood, they likely tell her no evidence to support a rape case. She may or may not want it to get out that she hooked up with him.
- Feedback to her female boss however likely knows it wasn't consensual but no evidence otherwise and there maybe rumors from the past. She basically gives him the option of resign or face a full enquiry and be tagged publicly as a potential sex offender, his career there would be finished regardless.

To be honest if this is the case I think the Minster is potentially bluffing and sees that with no evidence, the best way foreword for the guy to simply leave. She was probably told to make better life choices.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I don’t know about naked, but what people wear when they sleep is their choice, and particularly ministerial staff, but even just just regular MPs and staff routinely sleep in Parliament House.

When the houses would sit late and everyone was ‘in the House’ until even midnight (sometimes even later) you have to understand that’s like 2-3am in any other city, having maybe 1000 people leave by the available transport (90% of staff don’t have a car in Canberra) means you wouldn’t get ‘home’ til 2,3,4am.

Despite what the security lady said, I think I know what the security breach was. I don’t know a lot about Miss Higgins, but I would be surprised if she was actually issued a green PIP, and if she was, and the fellow was then I am surprised the security lady escorted them to the office.

Lastly, Miss Higgins being asleep naked on a couch and security opening the door to the ‘view’ is not indecent exposure, she was in a locked office, within the Minster’s office, if someone with no real reason to do so unlocks the door and attempts to walk in on her that is hardly something to hold against her.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Umm, newsflash, you don't actually have to come here to read anyone's posts.

Ditto. But saying that I condone rape because I won't condemn fare dodgers was a vile thing to direct at me.
What are you going to do about it?
Keep calling you out as a poseur.
don_dunstan
Consider yourself poseured then! Laughing
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I was never in Canberra without a pass to require being issued a green PIP, but at no hour of any day did APH security ever escort me anywhere.

Further thinking about this, knowing that neither of them had a pass, I don’t think that unless you were especially intoxicated, you would take a girl back to APH to commit a rape. Firstly, you would know that both of you would need to be vetted and looked by security, they’re going to find that a much more memorable/recallable event than showing them a pass. Secondly, there is recorded surveillance nearly everywhere.

A round in a park or back at the hotel (I am quite certain neither lived in Canberra) even if he was married his family almost certainly wouldn’t be in Canberra, would be much more discreet.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Leigh Sales now hosting Hot Seat, no contestant?

  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
And didn't our Laura give it to the old fat boomer conservative white blokes.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I forgot the word ignorant
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I forgot the word ignorant
wobert
Don't worry, mate; we automatically take that as the standard.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Clearly there is a lax culture of both business security and employee behavior in our Nations Capital Offices that is by no means limited to sexual assault.
That's what happens in a cloistered environment when everybody believes that they're answerable to nobody.
It's situations like these that the PM should get everyone in the room together (MPs, staff etc), lock the doors, read them the riot act while screaming at them like the Drill Sergeant in Full Metal Jacket, and finally a compulsory signing of a new water-tight code-of-conduct with no second chances.

Any dissenters would then be summarily sacked.

I'll never forget the all-in school assembly and dressing down by our high school principal one morning after a gutter fight in a public street by two Year 10 girls cheered on by half the school the afternoon beforehand...
Valvegear, 100% correct

Carnot, may have already occurred and I'm sure its not limited to the right hand side of politics.

Looking at the comments from security
My further take on it

- Leaving the night club he's clearly up for it and suspect her as well, but why not go home? Married? I suspect she wasn't saying no to this point.

If they are with her friends or colleges, no one sees any concern with what they expect to happen. I say this because in the past I've seen girls step in when they think their friend is about to head off with a guy they think is not what she would want if sober.

- She arrived with a grass stain on her dress, either fallen over or they already tried to Tango in the park and got seen.
- Security knew what they were coming into the building for, should have told them to bugger off.

Fail #1 by security that manages Parliament House, again unlikely the first time. I'm sure many a male staffer has taken his latest pickup for a shag Parliament House as bragging rights.

- Once in the office, things likely started consensually and she simply passed out.
- The guy is a prick, so continues what he started.

This part I'll never get, F'ing a woman unconscious ???? Mrs Palmer would surely be more exciting!

- She wakes up again, likely too intoxicated to do much and he's almost done then passes out when he gets off.

She said she felt it had gone on for some time at this point, likely she was moving in and out of consciousness.

- He leaves, leaves her there, she passes out again as unlikely to have enough energy to even stand up for a number of hours.
- He leaves via security, they know something is not right and go check, but make no attempt to see if she is ok mentally.

Fail# 2, Security found her naked, but asleep, everything is normal apparently in the eyes of Parliament Security, likely far from the first time.

- No bruises, no marks and probably nothing but witnesses to say she was up for it before hand which would discredit her somewhat as a witness so she avoids reporting to the police.
- She talks to her sisterhood, they likely tell her no evidence to support a rape case. She may or may not want it to get out that she hooked up with him.
- Feedback to her female boss however likely knows it wasn't consensual but no evidence otherwise and there maybe rumors from the past. She basically gives him the option of resign or face a full enquiry and be tagged publicly as a potential sex offender, his career there would be finished regardless.

To be honest if this is the case I think the Minster is potentially bluffing and sees that with no evidence, the best way foreword for the guy to simply leave. She was probably told to make better life choices.
RTT_Rules
It's not unknown for sexual predators to dose their victim up with GBH to have their way. Unfortunately, there is no way of investigating that possibility at this late stage. I wouldn't dismiss her claim of rape so readily. I will give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if she consented and then passed out, there is no continuing consent and it's rape.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It's not unknown for sexual predators to dose their victim up with GBH to have their way. Unfortunately, there is no way of investigating that possibility at this late stage. I wouldn't dismiss her claim of rape so readily. I will give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if she consented and then passed out, there is no continuing consent and it's rape.
nswtrains
No way of knowing that now - and I kinda doubt if that assailant was that sophisticated anyway, he just relied on having power and rank over the new recruit.

I had a huge argument with someone over this case about the meaning of 'consent' and whether you could 'consent' when you were dropping down drunk. The person I was arguing with said that anyone who was too drunk was incapable of consent - but then if I get into my car when I'm incredibly drunk then I'm still making a decision for which I'll later be held accountable.

I think the days of 'I was too drunk to consent' are well and truly behind us.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Excellent one-liner in today's Age; " Sex workers in Parliament House? At last, some honest working people in Canberra."
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Peta Credlin is letting rip. Good on her:

  justapassenger Minister for Railways

But the less said about how she ruled the PM's office (and specifically the PM) with an iron strap-on the better, right?

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