QGR QLX/GLC Louver Van Question

 
  Z VAN Junior Train Controller

My understanding is in 1964 a number of Louver wagons coded GLC were modified to allow the  bogies to be exchanged easily and the vans were recoded to QLX to reflect this, eventually all four hundred were reclassed?
The limited information I am aware of is at least one van was bogied exchanged and sent to Sydney as part of the Trial. I have read unsubstantiated accounts several vans were bogied exchanged and sent south?
#########
What I wish to know is the number of the van/vans that made it to Sydney so I can model one of these.
NO Pressure Sulla 1 as you have a deep understanding of Queensland Rail Activity and History.

I have included a draft below of something I wrote several years ago that has not progressed as I am short of facts regards Wagon numbers and a strong edit is required to the text.Another Day!


"The Wentworth report of 1956 recommended in essence building a National connection of Standard Gauge lines either by conversion of existing lines or new construction connecting all mainland Capital Cities.
This was a compromised outcome lessening the recommended gauge conversion of the Australian System headed by Sir Harold Clapp in 1946.

My comment from an Australian Railway enthusiast and Railway devotee what a moment we missed by not adopting Sir Harold Clapps recommendations.

History records, moving on!

With the National uniformed gauge euphoria Railways of Australia becaming the central authority of limited power to recommend uniformity of design with new items of Rolling stock.

Bogied Rolling stock was designed with the knowledge these wagons would run to every mainland state of Australia and would therefore have to be within the loading gauge limits of each states standard gauge trackage.
There were many wagons built by the Government Railway administrations and private Engineering Companies especially after the opening of the lines allowing Sydney to Perth on one gauge.
The Victorian Railways in the first ten years of uniformed gauge from Melbourne to Sydney experienced a ten percent increase in tonnage year upon year as well the Administration built more than twelve new designs of wagons to meet this unprecedented demand.

The Queensland Government Railways (QGR) due to their modest loading gauge inherited from bad decisions in the 19th century were unable to join the unification as other state systems could however they came up with a compromised solution.  

In 1964 the QGR were taking delivery of bogied GLC class wagons louvred vans. It was a simple decision and task to modify these wagons to allow the bogies to be changed out for standard gauge bogies and therefore to denote this the wagons were reclassified QLX.  
The QLX code meant Q for Queensland, L for louvre van and X showing the wagon was suitable for bogie exchange.

A trial trip; other people believe several trips were made between Brisbane and Sydney for evaluation.
Either way all agree only a hand full of trips were made.
Little information seems to be available regards the success of the trial.
A Bogie Exchange facility was never built in Brisbane and the whole prospect of the QLX vans regularly travelling throughout Australia on the Standard gauge network did not eventuate.
A pity, we can only speculate on the reasons why the concept was not progressed.  
Regards PTE.

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  br30453 Chief Train Controller

My understanding is in 1964 a number of Louver wagons coded GLC were modified to allow the  bogies to be exchanged easily and the vans were recoded to QLX to reflect this, eventually all four hundred were reclassed?
The limited information I am aware of is at least one van was bogied exchanged and sent to Sydney as part of the Trial. I have read unsubstantiated accounts several vans were bogied exchanged and sent south?
#########
What I wish to know is the number of the van/vans that made it to Sydney so I can model one of these.
NO Pressure Sulla 1 as you have a deep understanding of Queensland Rail Activity and History.

I have included a draft below of something I wrote several years ago that has not progressed as I am short of facts regards Wagon numbers and a strong edit is required to the text.Another Day!


"The Wentworth report of 1956 recommended in essence building a National connection of Standard Gauge lines either by conversion of existing lines or new construction connecting all mainland Capital Cities.
This was a compromised outcome lessening the recommended gauge conversion of the Australian System headed by Sir Harold Clapp in 1946.

My comment from an Australian Railway enthusiast and Railway devotee what a moment we missed by not adopting Sir Harold Clapps recommendations.

History records, moving on!

With the National uniformed gauge euphoria Railways of Australia becaming the central authority of limited power to recommend uniformity of design with new items of Rolling stock.

Bogied Rolling stock was designed with the knowledge these wagons would run to every mainland state of Australia and would therefore have to be within the loading gauge limits of each states standard gauge trackage.
There were many wagons built by the Government Railway administrations and private Engineering Companies especially after the opening of the lines allowing Sydney to Perth on one gauge.
The Victorian Railways in the first ten years of uniformed gauge from Melbourne to Sydney experienced a ten percent increase in tonnage year upon year as well the Administration built more than twelve new designs of wagons to meet this unprecedented demand.

The Queensland Government Railways (QGR) due to their modest loading gauge inherited from bad decisions in the 19th century were unable to join the unification as other state systems could however they came up with a compromised solution.  

In 1964 the QGR were taking delivery of bogied GLC class wagons louvred vans. It was a simple decision and task to modify these wagons to allow the bogies to be changed out for standard gauge bogies and therefore to denote this the wagons were reclassified QLX.  
The QLX code meant Q for Queensland, L for louvre van and X showing the wagon was suitable for bogie exchange.

A trial trip; other people believe several trips were made between Brisbane and Sydney for evaluation.
Either way all agree only a hand full of trips were made.
Little information seems to be available regards the success of the trial.
A Bogie Exchange facility was never built in Brisbane and the whole prospect of the QLX vans regularly travelling throughout Australia on the Standard gauge network did not eventuate.
A pity, we can only speculate on the reasons why the concept was not progressed.  
Regards PTE.
Z VAN
Z VAN,

This old myth of QLX wagon being bogie exchanged and sent south is just that, a myth.

Some years ago I asked the QR Interstate Clerk about QLX wagons being bogie exchanged.
His reply was:

"One QLX was bogie exchanged at Clapham as a demonstration, however after the assembled dignitaries departed it was replaced on narrow gauge bogies. None ever went south."

The QLXs were designed to enable bogie exchange for operation interstate as indicated by the X suffix.. But the main reason none were exchanged as it would have been a one way operation as there were no other states vehicles that could operate on the Queensland 3ft 6in gauge network.

Alva Lee the Commissioner at the time said he did not want bogie exchange as "We would lose our wagons down south".
  Z VAN Junior Train Controller

Well there you go br30453, thank you for the information.
I was only repeating what I have read and assumed valid.
PTE.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
QR had the 'X' suffix code letter on other QR wagons beside QLX wagons. The QR 1965 Annual Report records the Comeng contract for 1 x "QFX" platform bogie wagon for the carriage of heavy loads. This was the prototype for more of these wagons which are of all steel construction with the exception of the wooden platform. This type of wagon has a gross weight of 62 tons and a carrying capacity of 42 tons 5 cwt. 1982 list has 17 QFX in traffic plus QFXP 7. Some QFX were modified in 1968 to accommodate 3 steel-framed containers acquired by the Department for experimental purposes.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

According to Triumph of the Narrow Gauge - more than 1,300 QLXs were eventually built, construction ending in 1977.

There were also 275 QGX grain hoppers (eventually reclassified QGA).

100 QFX container/flat wagons were built in 1965-1966. These had timber decking and were also used to carry machinery and vehicles, particularly armoured vehicles, such as the M113s, between Brisbane, Glen Geddes and Townsville. More QFX and QFCs were built in the 1970s before construction shifted to the P and B series skeletal container wagons in 1980s. The decking was eventually removed on many QFCs.
  Z VAN Junior Train Controller

Well Thanks again Fellas for putting this story to rest.
You have saved Me the effort of making a model of a QLX and perpetuating the myth.
PTE.
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Well Thanks again Fellas for putting this story to rest.
You have saved Me the effort of making a model of a QLX and perpetuating the myth.
PTE.
Z VAN
"br30453"
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'... Alva Lee the Commissioner at the time said he did not want bogie exchange as "We would lose our wagons down south". ....'

An interesting comment that was not unusual in wagon operations at the time. In the case of Queensland rolling stock my question would be:

'who would want it?' - especially so far as their vans were concerned.

Victorian, Commonwealth and South Australian rolling stock was always in demand for interstate operations during the bogie exchange era. NSW was somewhat more 'insular'. Western Australian rolling stock was slightly less desirable and Victoria and Western Australia both made differing efforts to limit the 'loss' of their wagons interstate. This was a balancing act between their own needs and the potential money to be made in Interchange Charges.

The foregoing, of course, does not differentiate between wagon types but container flats and high cube vans were most in demand which would eliminate any need for Queensland vans.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
The following paragraph suggests you admire the side buffers on the QLX as that means not bogie exchangable. Another point is containers were coming into use around that era, so removing the need for bogie exchanges as a load of perishable traffic in a container on a QR wagon was easily swapped to a standard gauge wagon without the expense of a bogie exchange facility.

Railway Digest May 1972
150 of the Queensland Railways QLX code were ordered in 1969 from Comeng (Qld) and Scotts of Ipswich. As the "X" indicates, they were designed to conform with ANZR specifications for bogie exchange vehicles, with the exception of the side buffers, which were necessary to permit use with other QR goods stock, the majority of which still has side buffers and screw couplings. The auto couplers fitted to the QLX  also have transition links. The QLX will not be used in bogie exchange traffic until sufficient goods stock is converted to auto couplers, enabling removal of side buffers.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
More on the assumption that the X suffix 'always' means bogie gauge convertible in QR land.

1959 QR Annual Report has a photo of a WHX (note the 'X' suffix) bulk grain wagon with side buffers and hook, not auto coupler. Comeng had a construction contract, so that wagon code was for a new build wagon in 1959. It was an open style wagon with tarpaulin hoop style supports over the load. The Comeng book V2 P.275 reveals they were for bulk wheat from Darling Downs to Brisbane and unloaded at the tippler at the Bulk Wheat terminal at Pinkenba, near the mouth of the Brisbane River. No mention of gauge conversion in either the QR report nor Comeng book.

The QR Annual report states "WHX" wagon has been designed as a bulk grain wagon, with a carrying capacity of 30 tons 7 cwt. The Department already has 200 "WH" bulk grain wagons in service and when the 300 "WHX" wagons have been received there will be 500 bulk grain wagons available with a total carrying capacity of 14,305 tons.

An innovation with the introduction of the large bogie "WHX" wagon has been the manufacture of a special tarpaulin which completely covers the wagon. This not only obviates the necessity for using two tarpaulins, as is the case now with the "WH" bulk grain wagon, but it eliminates the overlapping inseparable from the use of two tarpaulins and thus provides more positive all weather protection. It is proposed to have similar special tarpaulins manufactured for the "WH" wagons. (Obviously copied from Report)
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

More on the assumption that the X suffix 'always' means bogie gauge convertible in QR land.

1959 QR Annual Report has a photo of a WHX (note the 'X' suffix) bulk grain wagon with side buffers and hook, not auto coupler. Comeng had a construction contract, so that wagon code was for a new build wagon in 1959. It was an open style wagon with tarpaulin hoop style supports over the load. The Comeng book V2 P.275 reveals they were for bulk wheat from Darling Downs to Brisbane and unloaded at the tippler at the Bulk Wheat terminal at Pinkenba, near the mouth of the Brisbane River. No mention of gauge conversion in either the QR report nor Comeng book.

The QR Annual report states "WHX" wagon has been designed as a bulk grain wagon, with a carrying capacity of 30 tons 7 cwt. The Department already has 200 "WH" bulk grain wagons in service and when the 300 "WHX" wagons have been received there will be 500 bulk grain wagons available with a total carrying capacity of 14,305 tons.

An innovation with the introduction of the large bogie "WHX" wagon has been the manufacture of a special tarpaulin which completely covers the wagon. This not only obviates the necessity for using two tarpaulins, as is the case now with the "WH" bulk grain wagon, but it eliminates the overlapping inseparable from the use of two tarpaulins and thus provides more positive all weather protection. It is proposed to have similar special tarpaulins manufactured for the "WH" wagons. (Obviously copied from Report)
petan
The X coding in the WHX wagons was to denote wagons built to 11 tons axle load.
With the adoption of the X in QLXs and others to denote wagons able to undergo bogie exchange the WHXs were reclassified to WHE, E being the new code to denote 11 tons axle load.

Extract from some note that I wrote in 1996 regarding Queensland Railways wagon coding:

Queensland
never actually participated in the bogie exchange but has retained the coding for those vehicles.  There are also some wagons that are in the Q coding that have been converted from QLX  such as the QSC side curtain van and from the QFX such as the QC container wagon.  QR did not follow the ANZR national standard four letter coding  when it was introduced in the early 1980s.  Four letter codes seen frequently today are derived from the traditional QR system.

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